Does your gear "open your eyes" to music you didn't notice before?

Generally I'd say yes to the original question. Clearly though, prog rock is an exception - it's nigh on impossible to like that no matter what the system.

Ghettoyout posted:

Generally I'd say yes to the original question. Clearly though, prog rock is an exception - it's nigh on impossible to like that no matter what the system.

I think there was a typo in that - surely you meant jazz?

...pop, rap.........

Huge posted:

There's also one piece that would always make me jump with a sudden orchestral tutti, now I worry it might give me a heart attack!

Was this Tchaikovsky's 6th symphony, part 1, from 9 minutes onwards?

Allan Milne posted:

 The macro-dynamics are also there but I often find they are now much more controlled; I remember in Mahler's 5th symphony the huge crescendo at the beginning used to impress me with its apparent wall of sound with no particular instruments or even tuning, but now it is a controlled crescendo with all the instruments clear and it is in tune - whether this is a "better" listening experience one could argue but it is certainly now more musical. I wonder if this might even let me into Bruckner ... I doubt it though

When I was in conservatory following the music theory lessons (harmony, rythm, counterpoint etc), my teacher used to start the lesson with listening to a piece of music to pre-illustrate the topic of the lesson (in this particular case the functional usage of the septime chord in relation to dynamics). He let us listen to the opening of Bruckner 4. As a result of that, the first time in my life that I admitted that there was music equally well composed as JS Bachs music, was after listening Bruckners 4th symphony. Turn up your volume (10 o'clock at least) sit down and listen.

Sometimes it is the just opposite. In many instances my elementary gear shielded my ears, mitigating the super bright sound of early CDs (especially strings music), making them more listenable. Same discs on a more revealing gear (CDX player) at the dealership produced a ruthless dry sound. Just to show you that the rule 'if you hear more it must sound better' doesn't always apply and that definitely includes conversations with the wife.

I have always noticed the music before the gear. The gear just makes it either more easier or more profound in its comprehension and enjoyment.

i will always remember with disappointment the music teacher coming into the classroom and asking us to muse over a piece of music replayed from an old tape blaster.   Either you got "it " because you knew the particular example or you were willing to go with everyone and pretend that you are listening . Listening being the real core point of transferable knowledge, and that of quality - which the dear old music teacher and his blaster really hadn't any.

TOBYJUG posted:

I have always noticed the music before the gear. The gear just makes it either more easier or more profound in its comprehension and enjoyment.

i will always remember with disappointment the music teacher coming into the classroom and asking us to muse over a piece of music replayed from an old tape blaster.   Either you got "it " because you knew the particular example or you were willing to go with everyone and pretend that you are listening . Listening being the real core point of transferable knowledge, and that of quality - which the dear old music teacher and his blaster really hadn't any.

Seems to be a theme with music teachers. For whatever reason, I knew many growing up. Seems like half of my friend's mums were music teachers, I even dated one for a while (a music teacher, not a friend's mum) and even now, there are a couple in my wife's family.

None have the slightest interest in playback quality. A [tiny] boombox with old cassettes and a music collection of 10 albums and they are happy. And (this is going to rub some members the wrong way I am sure), juding from their tastes, have very little interest in music. The preponderance for nearly all of them to play Disney sheet music sends me for the door lest I make a cynical comment that I cannot take back and live to regret.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Ghettoyout posted:

Generally I'd say yes to the original question. Clearly though, prog rock is an exception - it's nigh on impossible to like that no matter what the system.

I think there was a typo in that - surely you meant jazz?

...pop, rap.........

I can't believe he meant jazz either. Rap possibly, or Simon Cowell manufactured noise. 

I suspect that the reason people are unable to enjoy the more improvisational musical forms is because they don't listen actively. You cannot expect to enjoy John Coltrane's 'Ascension' or 'Close to the Edge' by Yes, for example, if you only listen passively as 'background' music. And if you only listen to music in the background you don't need a decent system to play it on anyway!

TOBYJUG posted:

I have always noticed the music before the gear. The gear just makes it either more easier or more profound in its comprehension and enjoyment.

i will always remember with disappointment the music teacher coming into the classroom and asking us to muse over a piece of music replayed from an old tape blaster.   Either you got "it " because you knew the particular example or you were willing to go with everyone and pretend that you are listening . Listening being the real core point of transferable knowledge, and that of quality - which the dear old music teacher and his blaster really hadn't any.

....Although there was a few lecturers at the art school I went to that held small classes at home with a few listening to music. One had an lp12, Olive and Harbeth system with the topic of " Punk and alternative " and another a Japanese based tube system with " pre and post war jazz" class.   They were not music teachers 

Once upon a time I did have Yes' Close to the Edge and if I'm honest enjoyed it at the time. I tend to like my songs to come in under three minutes or so and prog rock songs are still in their first drum solo at that stage.

Even laptops are good to listen to new music I find. Just last night I discovered Atari Teenage Riot, Steveless and something else I wrote down at the time but cannot recall now. Purchases will be made.

Yes definitely. Only this morning I was listening to radio 2 in the background when they played a 70's pop song I have heard countless times but still can't remember the name of. This time the bass line caught my ear and I had to turn it up, sit down and listen until the end. In my view this sums up what a good hifi system is all about.

dayjay posted:

Yes, the timing and interplay of instruments in music that I know well and also some music I haven't found especially interesting before is now much more listenable and enjoyable.

Definitely the other day I was listening to some Bach - Sonatas @  Partitas for Lute and it sounded mesmerising.You could hear all the different strings of the Lute.Also the recording acoustic.Made me realise I must investigate more.

Listening to some Depeche Mode after not playing them for a while gave a similar big grin as the production  sounded awesome as all their tracks are unique with their keyboard sounds

I know it's a bit of a cliche but a good system does make you connect with the music and it's really doing its job when you make a mental note to explore more for your collection,or in your collection.

feeling_zen posted:

None have the slightest interest in playback quality. A [tiny] boombox with old cassettes and a music collection of 10 albums and they are happy. And (this is going to rub some members the wrong way I am sure), juding from their tastes, have very little interest in music. The preponderance for nearly all of them to play Disney sheet music sends me for the door lest I make a cynical comment that I cannot take back and live to regret.

There is much to say on this. First, the Disney sheet music. From personal experience I know that it is a clear indicator for kids that if they like this music, that they will never end up on conservatory. Hardly any of my classmates got to know any of this music and all of us were on a very young age more involved already by - lets say - 2-part inventions of J. S. Bach. On a young age kids are very well able to distinct crap from the real compositions. Personally, the most striking moment in music life was when my teacher took me to the St. Matthew passion in the Dom of Utrecht when I was 10 years old. Music was always a given from that moment on without doubt.

Now, on the reason why teachers are not interested in the playback of  music multiple reasons can be given, but I would like to mention 2.

First, positive. There is a category of people who hear music when they see notes. And when you hear music, even only a baseline + upper voice, ones mind can fill in the other voices. Having this capacity there is no need to be able to physically hear all individual voices - your mind will do the trick. I remember that I was reading the scores only of the Prelude + Fugue in B minor composed by J. S. Bach and I really could not tell afterwards if I actually heared music or not. Weird experience.

Second, negative. There are so many people on Conservatory who like to sing nice, or play the violin / piano nice and have not a single braincel interested in culture. When you would ask them on the meaning / purpose of a certain Symphony they would stare at you and have no clue what you are asking.

These girls normally end up as yoga or piano teacher or so.

That's awful.

I did always try to stay close to the Music Theory teachers since they were the real guru's on conservatory having a decent understanding of history and culture. Timeless.

Recently became the proud owner of a Superline phono amp. I also purchased an Apheta 2 MC cartridge. Music I'd listened to previously definitely "sounds" better - more detail for sure. 

[@mention:55771800629066628] forgive my ignorance but can you educate me and explain what you mean by "Conservatory"? To me a conservatory is just a sun room extended onto a house.

Perhaps I am the only one that doesn't understand but I'll put my hand up and ask anyway.

feeling_zen posted:

[@mention:55771800629066628] forgive my ignorance but can you educate me and explain what you mean by "Conservatory"? To me a conservatory is just a sun room extended onto a house.

Perhaps I am the only one that doesn't understand but I'll put my hand up and ask anyway.

Thanks for asking - it does indeed not translate always.

It's the place where you can get Bachelor / Masters degree in music.

Ardbeg10y posted:

feeling_zen posted:

[@mention:55771800629066628] forgive my ignorance but can you educate me and explain what you mean by "Conservatory"? To me a conservatory is just a sun room extended onto a house.

Perhaps I am the only one that doesn't understand but I'll put my hand up and ask anyway.

Thanks for asking - it does indeed not translate always.

It's the place where you can get Bachelor / Masters degree in music.

A term I have often come across in references to music learning in olden days (meaning I hadn't heard like term in my own lifetime until this direct English translation) was 'conservatoire', e.g in the context of some european composers.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

feeling_zen posted:

[@mention:55771800629066628] forgive my ignorance but can you educate me and explain what you mean by "Conservatory"? To me a conservatory is just a sun room extended onto a house.

Perhaps I am the only one that doesn't understand but I'll put my hand up and ask anyway.

Thanks for asking - it does indeed not translate always.

It's the place where you can get Bachelor / Masters degree in music.

A term I have often come across in references to music learning in olden days (meaning I hadn't heard like term in my own lifetime until this direct English translation) was 'conservatoire', e.g in the context of some european composers.

Cheers. That explains why I didn't know then. The closest I got to a musical education was sneaking backstage when Led Zep were rehersing for a local gig (I was but a lad and a friend worked the venue) and having Robert Plant swear his head off at me. Thus ended my music education. They say studying foreign languages uses the same mental skills as music but I'm not sure I buy it. I majored in foreign language for my bachelors but music is an uncrackable mystery to me.

feeling_zen posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

feeling_zen posted:

[@mention:55771800629066628] forgive my ignorance but can you educate me and explain what you mean by "Conservatory"? To me a conservatory is just a sun room extended onto a house.

Perhaps I am the only one that doesn't understand but I'll put my hand up and ask anyway.

Thanks for asking - it does indeed not translate always.

It's the place where you can get Bachelor / Masters degree in music.

A term I have often come across in references to music learning in olden days (meaning I hadn't heard like term in my own lifetime until this direct English translation) was 'conservatoire', e.g in the context of some european composers.

...  but music is an uncrackable mystery to me.

That's why we are here.

feeling_zen posted:

Cheers. That explains why I didn't know then. The closest I got to a musical education was sneaking backstage when Led Zep were rehersing for a local gig (I was but a lad and a friend worked the venue) and having Robert Plant swear his head off at me. Thus ended my music education. They say studying foreign languages uses the same mental skills as music but I'm not sure I buy it. I majored in foreign language for my bachelors but music is an uncrackable mystery to me.

And I am hopeless at languages, but have found music easy, though I haven't studied formally at any high level. I think whoever says languages and music use the same mental skills is somewhat short of the mark!

Innocent Bystander posted:

feeling_zen posted:

Cheers. That explains why I didn't know then. The closest I got to a musical education was sneaking backstage when Led Zep were rehersing for a local gig (I was but a lad and a friend worked the venue) and having Robert Plant swear his head off at me. Thus ended my music education. They say studying foreign languages uses the same mental skills as music but I'm not sure I buy it. I majored in foreign language for my bachelors but music is an uncrackable mystery to me.

And I am hopeless at languages, but have found music easy, though I haven't studied formally at any high level. I think whoever says languages and music use the same mental skills is somewhat short of the mark!

A great many universities go by this it seems. Where I studied Japanese in the UK, a demonstrated ability in mathematics or music was a prerequisite for studying foreign languages. I later found out I was the only one of 40 on my course who did not meet the requirement (not being able to play a single note or add single digits in my head).

But I was one of only 11 out of the initial 40 who graduated. That also tells me their theory is wrong.

My sons are both musical, one more than the other, and both good at maths - but both are useless at languages at school, clearly the same traits as me. My brothers similar. However my mother was good at music and languages, but so-so at maths. And the only person I know well who is excellent at languages is a brother in law, who is good at maths, but useless at music.

it seems to me that it is any two out of these three subjects that tend to go well together, not all three! But that is not inconsistent with universities wanting people wanting to study languages to be good at one or other of maths and music.

My younger son is something of a maths whizz, is good at languages and plays piano, guitar and bass. So he must be one of the exceptions. 

My ex-hymnology teacher has 6 masterdegrees. Mathematics, Music and Italian were 3 of them.

Typical assignment from him was: improvise on Psalm X, insipred by music from Dave Brubeck.

DrPo posted:

Bart posted:

Dr Po, others, isn't it interesting to hear what much higher priced hardware can do?  People generally fall into two categories.  I'm happy to hear such stuff, knowing what it can do but being OK with not 'needing' it in my home.  Others don't even want to hear it, for fear they will forever be scarred knowing that there is better out there.

Hi Bart, the catch in the 'much'. The best system i have heard was a full dCs Vivaldi + VTL Siegrids into Wilson Alexandrias playing the end of Mahler's 2nd. We were listening in awe, silent... This is a system I will never contemplate owning so listening to it is "interesting" and definitely i would look for opportunities to listen to something like that. The tricky part is with upgrades that are not too far from reach but still appear too "extravagant".  The 252 is in this category for me. But all is relevant as a few years back when I started my recent hi fi journey i considered a Uniti 2 too pricey and decided to go for UnitiLite. Now i have similar qualms between a 282 and a 252 :-)

Me too! We get totally de-sensitized to the price of this stuff, and before long are thinking of a pre-amp that exceeds the total budget of where we were aiming a few years ago!