Today MQA Audio

Your missing part of my point Chris.

I already own $1000's of dollars of digital files and LP's, most of us have years of music to listen to already. I love the flawed LP format, so yes I will continue to buy some LP's. I just refuse to spend another dime  "to own" any more digital files ... HiRes or other wise. 

Plenty of new music to stream already. 

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

Good luck with that! Hopefully, things will improve, but right now, Tidal as my only music source would be a depressing thought. Massive gaps in the available catalogue, inconsistent sound quality, no guarantee of availability as deals with artists and/or recording companies come and go, etc. Thanks, but no thanks! 

+1.  I'm totally open to a new future, but TODAY, my music listening desires cannot be satisfied with streaming solutions only.  Things clearly need to settle in (out?) a bit more.  The quality needs to be sorted out, the hardware needed to obtain that quality needs to be sorted out, and the spotty content from platform to platform needs to be sorted out.

If when it's sorted, sure, sign me up.  I never bought a ton of dvd's, and in 2017 I feel that I don't need to own dvd's or a video server to see any movie I want to at any time. . . . with a few exceptions of course because not EVERYTHING is on Netflix or the iTunes Store, etc.  If we get to this same place with music, great!  Til then . . . 

Closer to my point, I too quit buying Movie's years too.

The only difference is I already own more music then I can ever seriously listen to in my lifetime.

Bill Allen posted:

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

Good luck with that! Hopefully, things will improve, but right now, Tidal as my only music source would be a depressing thought. Massive gaps in the available catalogue, inconsistent sound quality, no guarantee of availability as deals with artists and/or recording companies come and go, etc. Thanks, but no thanks! 

+1.  I'm totally open to a new future, but TODAY, my music listening desires cannot be satisfied with streaming solutions only.  Things clearly need to settle in (out?) a bit more.  The quality needs to be sorted out, the hardware needed to obtain that quality needs to be sorted out, and the spotty content from platform to platform needs to be sorted out.

If when it's sorted, sure, sign me up.  I never bought a ton of dvd's, and in 2017 I feel that I don't need to own dvd's or a video server to see any movie I want to at any time. . . . with a few exceptions of course because not EVERYTHING is on Netflix or the iTunes Store, etc.  If we get to this same place with music, great!  Til then . . . 

Closer to my point, I too quit buying Movie's years too.

The only difference is I already own more music then I can ever seriously listen to in my lifetime.

So you need a $20/month streaming service in order to stop compulsively buying music you won't listen to (much) anyway.  That's not new technology, that's an "intervention."

MartinCA posted:

Bill Allen posted:

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). 

Must look them up, I thought.  Flipping Heck - at that price they'd better be!

It just figures the Utopia's cost $4K, I never asked, I have so little interest in headphones.

My friend Mike always drags me into listening to headphone at CES, thinking one day I will come around to his listening preference. It's safe to say I have heard a large majority of all the popular headphones.

Well after all these year's it finally happened, I could perhaps live these Focal headphones.  

Bill Allen posted:

 

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction.  

Interesting opinion...

If by streaming you mean online, that might one day replace owned music, but I doubt it will for a long time: Quality of online streaming rarely seems to match what can be achieved from a decent file stored locally, and online streaming of decent quality is impossible for people in rural places with ounly low speed internet access. So far whenI've looked at the likes of Tidal, QObuz and Spotify I haven't been impressed, missing the majority of things I looked for. And why keep paying a subscription to hear music you can have at home, bought to re-listen as often as you want. Clearly most of this may change, with time, but It is likely to be quite a few years yet.

I agree with you re CD, as storage on some form of "electronic" device avoids the potential problems with live playing of a disk, while als enabling higher resolutions, small space requirement and easy searching - though the format of such storage is likely to move completely to solid-state in one form or another, and continue to shrink in size.

But apart from physicality and for some people nostalgia, LPs are an anachronism: poorer sound quality, large storage space in today's shrinking accomodation and susceptible to deterioration or damage. The fact that they have remained popular in some quarters and are increasing in popularity in others, is evidence that people actually choose their music storage for reasons that aren't always logical, and that alone decries the likelihood that home ownership of digital music files will disappear any time soon.

Bart posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

Good luck with that! Hopefully, things will improve, but right now, Tidal as my only music source would be a depressing thought. Massive gaps in the available catalogue, inconsistent sound quality, no guarantee of availability as deals with artists and/or recording companies come and go, etc. Thanks, but no thanks! 

+1.  I'm totally open to a new future, but TODAY, my music listening desires cannot be satisfied with streaming solutions only.  Things clearly need to settle in (out?) a bit more.  The quality needs to be sorted out, the hardware needed to obtain that quality needs to be sorted out, and the spotty content from platform to platform needs to be sorted out.

If when it's sorted, sure, sign me up.  I never bought a ton of dvd's, and in 2017 I feel that I don't need to own dvd's or a video server to see any movie I want to at any time. . . . with a few exceptions of course because not EVERYTHING is on Netflix or the iTunes Store, etc.  If we get to this same place with music, great!  Til then . . . 

Closer to my point, I too quit buying Movie's years too.

The only difference is I already own more music then I can ever seriously listen to in my lifetime.

So you need a $20/month streaming service in order to stop compulsively buying music you won't listen to (much) anyway.  That's not new technology, that's an "intervention."

Well said!

In a total twist of fate, my wife and I listen to more music then ever with the purchase of our MuSo after CES 2016. Falling back to the house Music Server only when our audio safari ventures into what's not available via streaming. Sometimes it leads us to spin an LP ... which usually leads to an all night "analog" adventure. 

Our next audio purchase (in the past it was always "my" next purchase) will include a way to integrate our main audio rig into streaming audio simultaneously with the MuSo. The new Uniti line will allow us to stream the LP's to the MuSo. How cool is that!

While an Atom will get the job done, "I" of coarse want a Nova.

Decisions ... Decision's

Bill Allen posted:

Bart posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

Good luck with that! Hopefully, things will improve, but right now, Tidal as my only music source would be a depressing thought. Massive gaps in the available catalogue, inconsistent sound quality, no guarantee of availability as deals with artists and/or recording companies come and go, etc. Thanks, but no thanks! 

+1.  I'm totally open to a new future, but TODAY, my music listening desires cannot be satisfied with streaming solutions only.  Things clearly need to settle in (out?) a bit more.  The quality needs to be sorted out, the hardware needed to obtain that quality needs to be sorted out, and the spotty content from platform to platform needs to be sorted out.

If when it's sorted, sure, sign me up.  I never bought a ton of dvd's, and in 2017 I feel that I don't need to own dvd's or a video server to see any movie I want to at any time. . . . with a few exceptions of course because not EVERYTHING is on Netflix or the iTunes Store, etc.  If we get to this same place with music, great!  Til then . . . 

Closer to my point, I too quit buying Movie's years too.

The only difference is I already own more music then I can ever seriously listen to in my lifetime.

So you need a $20/month streaming service in order to stop compulsively buying music you won't listen to (much) anyway.  That's not new technology, that's an "intervention."

Well said!

In a total twist of fate, my wife and I listen to more music then ever with the purchase of our MuSo after CES 2016. Falling back to the house Music Server only when our audio safari ventures into what's not available via streaming. Sometimes it leads us to spin an LP ... which usually leads to an all night "analog" adventure. 

Our next audio purchase (in the past it was always "my" next purchase) will include a way to integrate our main audio rig into streaming audio simultaneously with the MuSo. The new Uniti line will allow us to stream the LP's to the MuSo. How cool is that!

While an Atom will get the job done, "I" of coarse want a Nova.

Decisions ... Decision's

 

My wife and I sit and work our way through parts of the music library...seemingly at random.  That wouldn't happen if I had to find an lp, or cd; the music being RIGHT THERE on the Naim App has truly enabled us to listen to so much more music.  But it's nice that we all have options that suit our habits, preferences and lifestyles -- lp's, cd's, home music servers and streaming.  Oh and FM.

As mentioned in previous posts, I wanted to understand why the MQA tracks might sound better even without being ‘unfolded’.   So I’ve done a bit of digging around what is done in terms of remastering, before MQA encapsulation.

It's all a bit esoteric, and in the end if it sounds better it doesn't really matter how.  But I guess I like to try and understand why.

Anyway, first there is this interview with Bob Stuart in The Absolute Sound (but it doesn’t tell us much!”)

He says “If you don’t have a decoder, you can play it back without a decoder because it is PCM. MQA turns PCM into PCM. When you play it back, it’ll play back on a legacy system sounding better than a CD. And it sounds better than CD because the noise floor is properly managed and the signal has been pre-apodized.”

http://www.stereophile.com/con...#4A7CdTimUrv47A48.97

Second, there is this from Spencer Chrislu director of content services, who says:  “now it's the source that came from the mastering desk itself, at the best possible resolution. …MQA should start with the best possible master in whatever form it is in. This could mean the master from the original tape, the digital archive, or the final master from the mastering desk …. MQA is backward-compatible with every DAC out there, and that MQA file, even undecoded, will sound better than CD due to the de-blurring we do”

http://www.stereophile.com/con...#UuEE1bIH034XG0oM.99

 Third and final, there is a very detailed interview with Bob Stuart again. You need to look at answers 16-18 and 27 on this topic. But it seems that the process starts by finding the best master available and doing some cleaning up (for example recovering resolution where mixed ADCs were used). Sometimes very little is done and sometimes rather more, but it involves a judgement call from the sound engineer about what gets it closest to the original analogue input.  

http://www.computeraudiophile....-q-mqa-s-bob-stuart/

Right.  Back to the music!  Kick out the Jams!

MartinCA posted:

…. MQA is backward-compatible with every DAC out there, and that MQA file, even undecoded, will sound better than CD due to the de-blurring we do”

 

This is entirely subjective, and I suspect there is some motive at play too - and to my ears with no motive at all complete and utter tosh...

Technically its also tosh ... MQA works by 'folding' as a consequence of sample theory all the hidef aliases that have been low pass filtered and through decimation (down sampling) into the baseband. This means an awful lot of extraneous non harmonic information is added into the baseband.. on quality equipment this will sound artificial - or digital sounding. It might sound enhanced or coloured  and have the illusion of betterment about it - but it will sound artificial - and  it does to my ears. Compare undecoded MQA to a quality CD replay of a given master on a quality (dare I say a Naim separate) system  - and its night and day - CD wins hands down - just no comparison.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bill Allen posted:

 

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction.  

Interesting opinion...

If by streaming you mean online, that might one day replace owned music, but I doubt it will for a long time: Quality of online streaming rarely seems to match what can be achieved from a decent file stored locally, and online streaming of decent quality is impossible for people in rural places with ounly low speed internet access. So far whenI've looked at the likes of Tidal, QObuz and Spotify I haven't been impressed, missing the majority of things I looked for. And why keep paying a subscription to hear music you can have at home, bought to re-listen as often as you want. Clearly most of this may change, with time, but It is likely to be quite a few years yet.

I agree with you re CD, as storage on some form of "electronic" device avoids the potential problems with live playing of a disk, while als enabling higher resolutions, small space requirement and easy searching - though the format of such storage is likely to move completely to solid-state in one form or another, and continue to shrink in size.

But apart from physicality and for some people nostalgia, LPs are an anachronism: poorer sound quality, large storage space in today's shrinking accomodation and susceptible to deterioration or damage. The fact that they have remained popular in some quarters and are increasing in popularity in others, is evidence that people actually choose their music storage for reasons that aren't always logical, and that alone decries the likelihood that home ownership of digital music files will disappear any time soon.

Nicely delineated IB. 

While I agree the current forms of audio streaming is limited ... you jump in when they're ready. 

However streaming in the future does not have to be restricted to pay services and closed loop home networks.

Radio has always been a form of streaming and the future of that particular format is wide open. Imagine your lazy and simply tune into what my wife and I are playing on "Our Radio Station".  One could add a request and we could include it in our line up (if we feel like it).  We may only have that track on LP which starts "us" down an analog adventure, follow if you want ... leave if you don't. Shut off  "your" radio station, don't take requests, choose not to take requests but still broadcast.  You share what you want, where you want, with "whoever" you want. 

Imagine streaming a live gig with an amazing band in a nightclub in Africa (with their permission of coarse).

Go ahead take my idea, get past the legal ramifications and become the next Mark Zukerberg.

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

What is the Naim Nova Bill Allen? Is it a combo Streamer, Preamp & Amp all in one?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

MartinCA posted:

…. MQA is backward-compatible with every DAC out there, and that MQA file, even undecoded, will sound better than CD due to the de-blurring we do”

 

This is entirely subjective, and I suspect there is some motive at play too - and to my ears with no motive at all complete and utter tosh...

Technically its also tosh ... MQA works by 'folding' as a consequence of sample theory all the hidef aliases that have been low pass filtered and through decimation (down sampling) into the baseband. This means an awful lot of extraneous non harmonic information is added into the baseband.. on quality equipment this will sound artificial - or digital sounding. It might sound enhanced and have the illusion of betterment about it - but it will sound artificial - and  it does to my ears. Compare undecoded MQA to a quality CD replay of a given master on a quality (dare I say a Naim separate) system  - and its night and day - CD wins hands down - just no comparison.

Let me first point out in case it is overlooked - that quote was from Spencer Chrislu  from MQA - I didn't say it (and you make it look like I did).

Is it subjective?  Yes - of course - he's the Content Director for MQA so of course he has a motive at play.

Is it tosh?  Well - I suspect not, because (a) that wouldn't be his job if he didn't have some idea about what he is talking about and (b) he's not going to look good if he spouts out rubbish in the media (OK I know it works for Trump, but I'm sure it doesn't work for MQA technical leaders).

But Simon - forgive me, but aren't you missing the point here.  I'm not discussing how the MQA 'folding' process works, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what they are doing with the master before they get into all that.  

OK I get the point you are making about the extraneous information being added in, and the possible boosting to compensate for attenuation of lazy filters and all that stuff.  But I'm not sure that we see the effects of that in the 16 bit domain.  

Whilst I am very happy to agree that a top quality red book 16/44 track may well sound better on a top DAC, equally I am open to the possibility that an MQA remaster playing at 16/48 through a non MQA DAC could well sound better than a poorly mastered 16/44 track.  Which was why I was trying to find out what is done pre-encapsulations.

musicfan51 posted:

Bill Allen posted:

Just returned from my 20th annual trip to CES, and with a couple of days to digest ... this is what I have to say on this forum.

The Naim Nova sounds fantastic, IMO better then the stack of Naim separates across the hall. 

The Focal Utopia Headphones are WOAD the finest headphones I've ever heard. (Me being an admitted headphone hater). The new Hugo 2 DAC also sounds special.

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction. 

Say what you want about HiRes audio streaming audio & the technology behind MQA ... this train has left the station and I for one am on board.

 

What is the Naim Nova Bill Allen? Is it a combo Streamer, Preamp & Amp all in one?

Yes ... it does that and a whole lot more. 

Bill Allen posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bill Allen posted:

 

IMO the future of audio for consumers is frozen in the grooves of LP's and Streaming. (MQA ... and soon many others) Bit perfect digital has been in the past ... and continues to be ... a complete fantasy perpetuated by the naive. The ownership of digital music files on plastic or computer drives will go the way of the steam locomotive. While we have all spent thousands of dollars on this format, I for one am not spending another dime in this direction.  

Interesting opinion...

If by streaming you mean online, that might one day replace owned music, but I doubt it will for a long time: Quality of online streaming rarely seems to match what can be achieved from a decent file stored locally, and online streaming of decent quality is impossible for people in rural places with ounly low speed internet access. So far whenI've looked at the likes of Tidal, QObuz and Spotify I haven't been impressed, missing the majority of things I looked for. And why keep paying a subscription to hear music you can have at home, bought to re-listen as often as you want. Clearly most of this may change, with time, but It is likely to be quite a few years yet.

I agree with you re CD, as storage on some form of "electronic" device avoids the potential problems with live playing of a disk, while als enabling higher resolutions, small space requirement and easy searching - though the format of such storage is likely to move completely to solid-state in one form or another, and continue to shrink in size.

But apart from physicality and for some people nostalgia, LPs are an anachronism: poorer sound quality, large storage space in today's shrinking accomodation and susceptible to deterioration or damage. The fact that they have remained popular in some quarters and are increasing in popularity in others, is evidence that people actually choose their music storage for reasons that aren't always logical, and that alone decries the likelihood that home ownership of digital music files will disappear any time soon.

Nicely delineated IB. 

While I agree the current forms of audio streaming is limited ... you jump in when they're ready. 

However streaming in the future does not have to be restricted to pay services and closed loop home networks.

Radio has always been a form of streaming and the future of that particular format is wide open. Imagine your lazy and simply tune into what my wife and I are playing on "Our Radio Station".  One could add a request and we could include it in our line up (if we feel like it).  We may only have that track on LP which starts "us" down an analog adventure, follow if you want ... leave if you don't. Shut off  "your" radio station, don't take requests, choose not to take requests but still broadcast.  You share what you want, where you want, with "whoever" you want. 

Imagine streaming a live gig with an amazing band in a nightclub in Africa (with their permission of coarse).

Go ahead take my idea, get past the legal ramifications and become the next Mark Zukerberg.

I get you now...  That would work even better when one day we receive music direct-wired to our brains, with no amp,or speakers needed?

(Though the whole point of a live band is to be there! Teleportation would be good!)

I'm all Ears .........

You won't need them!

Nice!

Martinca - all I will say is I suggest one is wary of getting wrapped up in the marketing/sales bubble. I am still not convinced/understand what relevance MQA has if its reconstruction filter is not used to expand 'lossy' compressed hidef. I have seen no detail other than vague marketing Q&As and this forum about this so called 'clearing up' of masters - that kind of reads like 'it just does it - trust us'. If it was that straightforward even if no MQA decode capability was required everyone would do it and no one would need MQA. So which MQA patent is used for this 'clearing up' and I/we can then look up this patent to see what they say they are uniquely doing... without that it just comes across as  sales speak - and as Jon H states one should be professionally cynical unless more proper white paper and clearer explanations are made... as we have all been hear before over the years.

simes_pep posted:

MartinCA posted:

simes_pep posted:

 

What you are potentially noticing is that without MQA decoding, you are listening to the MQA encoded version in a 24/48 format but without the Hi-Res information of full MQA decoded version at 24/192m being 'unfolded' and added back in. So this potentially should be better than the 16/44.1 version.

Plus if the MQA process has been followed correctly, as initially intended, then the studio would gone right back to the Master recording and converted from there with the MQA encoding process, effectively remastering the recording.
This is why, they are seeing the opportunity to re-sell their back catalogue to everyone, all over again.
You bought it on Vinyl, re-bought it on CD, and now will buy it all again on MQA, or are going to pay more for a high-quality streamed version.

However, anything that improves the quality of the playback, and gets away from MP3 or ACC formats, and those 256k streamed offerings from Spotify and Apple Music, has to be better, and we maybe we can better the technology limited Red Book standard from 1984. 

Simon.

 

Are you certain?   If you're relying on what Roon is telling you, are you sure Roon is telling you the truth - it might be that Roon needs an update.

This is what the Tidal FAQ says ....

>>What is the difference between HiFi quality and Master quality sound?

HiFi audio is a superior sound, but is still limited in its resolution — 44.1 kHz/16 bit.

Yet TIDAL has partnered with MQA to deliver something infinitely better: an authenticated and unbroken version (typically 96 kHz/24 bit) with the highest possible resolution — as flawless as it sounded in the mastering suite. And exactly as the artist intended it to sound. <<

It sounds to me like there must be some decoding going on here, unless they are just streaming 24/96 (or whatever) files - but then they don't need MQA for that, do they?

I don't see why software apps can't unpack and reconstruct MQA files in principle (accepting what SiS says about the benefits of decoding within the DAC.

Becuase the original Licensing model was for certified hardware MQA decoding only, and not software decoding.

If you view the posts in the Roon forum, which identifies the source material, as MQA format, and then when MQA enabled playback is possible (i.e. there is a certified MQA DAC in the chain) and also there are additional LEDs on the DAC to indicated MQA unpacking and playback.

In another recent, it is announced that software decoding of MQA is coming to Roon, just no announcements on timelines.

TIDAL has partnered with MQA to provide MQA to those who have the certified DAC support, and for non-certified DACs there is some improvement over the current 16/44.1 CD quality, given the carrier bucket is 24/48.
They aren't getting deep into the detail, as they want to position the additional value of the MASTER recordings, as part of the Premium subscription level.

It all stands well, if Naim is able to become a Roon Endpoint, with MQA decoding in the Roon Core. Hopefully this is easier than becoming a certified MQA DAC provider.

Of course, if Roon is able to perform the MQA decoding then other software engines can also, in time, but Roon seems to be close to MQA and Tidal, at present.

Simon.

I have been some doing some digging on this this afternoon.  Tidal themselves say that the desktop app can unfold once i.e. from the 24/48 carrier bucket to 24/96, which is the maximum possible from the desktop app.  This is supported by articles on Digital Audio Review - http://www.digitalaudioreview....al-where-are-we-now/ and Audiophile Review - http://audiophilereview.com/cd...-on-tidal-rules.html

I can only assume that, by 'favouriting' the albums for playback in Roon you are somehow bypassing the software decoding in the Tidal desktop app resulting in playback of the 24/48 carrier bucket without the 1 x unfolding to 24/96.

Robert Harley has some useful information from the Digital Entertainment Group presentation at CES.

At a press conference, the Digital Entertainment Group announced that several other streaming services would offer “hi-res” streaming (including Pandora, HDtracks, Napster/Rhapsody). High-level executives from major record labels also stated their support for hi-res streaming, but inexplicably there was no mention of MQA and no opportunity for Q&A. I later learned that all these services will offer MQA streaming later this year*. The MQA floodgates appear to have opened.

I wonder if it's the services or labels pushing MQA? A bit of both perhaps? Pandora offering MQA could be helpful in-terms of nudging Spotify towards better quality streaming options.

If Spotify were to join Tidal and offer MQA it's hard to see Naim being able to resist MQA for too long. MQA may become table stakes in the DAC and streamer market.

_{Source: http://www.theabsolutesound.co...ectronics-under-15k/}

_{*Emphasis is mine.}

Running an MQA capable bluesound node2 into NAD M51 DAC, so I've been able to do some back to back listening between Tidal 44.1 and 48/96 mqa albums.

For most albums the sound is obviously different, more so than the differences between a 96k download and a CD flac rip of the same album. MQA versions are mostly sounding like a new, superior re-mastering job of the original.

Sound is more fleshed out with more body, slightly more dynamic with more spatial depth. It seems a tad warmer but not at the expense of detail or transparency. All of this adds up to the music coming across as more natural and live sounding to my ears. More ease in the delivery but not necessarily more laid back. I didn't know what to expect, so I've been pleasantly surprised.

 I think that since my node2 sends digital out to the NAD DAC, I'm maybe only getting the 1x unfolding from the node streamer, but I'm not entirely sure on this part. Based on what I've heard so far, I hope it catches on and becomes more widely available. More options are always good especially when they are included in an existing service.

MartinCA posted:

Let me first point out in case it is overlooked - that quote was from Spencer Chrislu  from MQA - I didn't say it (and you make it look like I did).

I didn't read it that way Martin - I read Simon's response clearly as a response to what you quoted, not what YOU said.  For what it's worth . . . I didn't read it that way at all.

I'm looking forward to even more content(Sony, Columbia etc) before I make up my mind.  It's a late start for MQA but its going in the right direction.  Kudos to Tidal/Warner Bros/MQA for at least giving us more options. 

i am not sure why - sure MQA will work well when you want to stream using compressed bandwidth and on Tidal its good at that- but what I am  seeing from everything else its not really advantageous other than its using bandwidth more efficiently. Looking at the DSP side - I can see that the sound is  distorted from a frequency perspective when reconstructed - like mp3 I can only assume MQA relies on the fact that most won't hear or object to  these aliased distortions and infant some might even like it. (These are the aliased frequencies that remain after the decimated signal is oversampled  (so called 'unfolding') if I understand the patent interpretation correctly.)

I agree with you Simon.  For what Tidal/MQA are trying to do with streaming it works well.  I'm probably their target audience.  I don't have that many CD's or Vinyl and I find myself listening to streaming music most of the time.  If they want to make hi-res music available and it streams and sounds at least as good as a CD consider me a lifetime subscriber.  Its still the early days with MQA and I'm sure Naim is looking into it.