Personal Audio

I thought my audio was personal to me..? (sorry I have been time travelling!)

I recently bought a Dragonfly Black. Same colour as the Naim Devices and the Dac sounds similar to the one in my Naim AV 2 and Supernait 1. Since I travel 50% of my time, it is a welcome thing in my life.

I bought a Pono player from the kickstarter launch and am very happy with it as a personal player with Sennheiser HD600 headphones. I believe it represents great vfm sound quality/pound but you can always spend more! Pity the Pono hires music outlet has encountered so many problems - still hopeful it will see the light of day in the UK market!

Astell and Kern junior is very good and about £250 now (Amazon). The GUI is very basic but the sound quality is excellent. 

Astell & Kern AK70 is excellent, and even better with a Chord Mojo. Plenty of reviews reach the same conclusion.  Dragonfly Black is a usb DAC rather than a personal music player, is it not?

I've had a number of DAPs, hoping to find the one that suits me best.

The iBasso DX50 was great fun and with the later firmware could be really engrossing, but there were problems - It could sometimes sound a bit unsubtle and processed and the touch screen was a total nightmare for anyone with adult sized hands and fingers.  The Sony ZX-2 was a gorgeous bit of kit in so many ways, and yet it sounded too much like a Sony CD player for me - too cerebral, it didn't engage me.  Also, while it was fine driving IEMs and my B&W P7s, it wasn't really suitable for 'phones like the HD600s. The A&K AK100 II was another super-slick gorgeous thing. It sounded crisp and clean but just managed to veer on the right side of emotional rather than cerebral. It could drive HD600s too. In the end I preferred it to the ZX-2 and would have probably kept hold of it except for the dark horse of the DAP group - the Pono Player. This is not a player to wow you on first listen.  Initially it can sound somewhat dull compared to the A&K, but you soon realise that the top end is extended and open but very natural.  It is warm and "sweet" sounding, without sounding cloudy or sluggish - it also matches up really well to the Sennheiser HD600.  There's no one aspect of how it sounds that stands out, but just as you begin to wonder where the sonic fireworks are you realise that you've just listened through an entire album and you're ready for the next one.  It is by turns both engrossing and unfatiguing in the best possible way - something very important with a DAP where revealing 'phones like the HD600s can soon grate with a lesser source.

Is it a "Naim" Dap?  No, probably not.  It's a little bit too self-effacing for that.  A Naim DAP would probably go further and would probably turn up the thrills a touch.  But, it is a lovely sounding thing, the Pono, particularly if you get the 'phones right. And I think I like it all the more because it's so simple and so understated - it's not shiny bling like the A&K.  It's not hewn from solid like the ZX-2.  It's downright humble in it's rubberised plastic toblerone case and fisher price buttons. There's no Wifi or Bluetooth.  It's a personal digital file player, and that's all. Despite glaring shortcomings such as the battery life, the small screen etc.. I love using it and listening to it.  It was made for Sennheiser HD600s and can even drive them balanced.  It strikes me as a player built with one over-riding priority - to sound great with a serious pair of headphones, and the niceties can go hang.

 Yes, I love it, and I haven't even mentioned Neil Young yet...

I guess the question in my mind is whether these players fit well with the Naim PRaT sound.

I suppose I should add that I'm from the Naim "Olive" era.

Richard Dane posted:

Is it a "Naim" Dap?  No, probably not ... a Naim DAP would probably go further and would probably turn up the thrills a touch.

Thanks Richard.

I don't suppose you'd like to comment on the possibility of Naim ever entering this market segment?

Richard interesting post... food for thought... I also really rate the iPad Air playing into the Little Dot Mk3 valve headphone app driving Senns 650s... I am not sure whether you would call that a DAP but to my mind it is... I tend to play Tidal lossless in this mode and it can sound georgous, and steers just the right side of emotional replay.

Soundmatters Moment.    I stream my iPad to it via Bluetooth and it does make you tap your toes to the music.

This is a great sounding unit.

Jack, I'd love to see a Naim DAP.  But I'm not sure I'd be willing to bet on it happening... 

Simon, if the idea of a proper DAP appeals then you should definitely try out a Pono. I'm listening to it as I type this reply.  In fact I seem to be listening to the Pono/HD600 combo more than anything else these days, which is a good sign that it's working well.  Right now I have a FLAC CD rip of Kate Bush's Never Forever playing and I'm in heaven...

I guess a Naim DAP is far away, but perhaps we should more and more post about it. As I am sure that Naim like in the Muso segment could do some great business. But as it is very short lived, I guess Naim will stay out.

So far I have great experiences with my Sony driving my Shure 846's, but I guess there are now also equally good options on the market. Either by DACing your PC, using a Hugo, or buying the insanely expensive AK380 or the new 3000 euros Sony, with connected amp. But for lesser money I think the good options are

Astell & Kern - AK70

Fiilo

Onkyo

Sony

Pono I can't talk about...

I'm going to suggest something a bit 'off the wall'

Have you considered something like a Korg MR2 or similar.  You can record the music onto SD cards (up to 32GB each) at whatever resolution you want.  Means carrying a few cards with you, but you can dictate the quality level of the recording.  Just need a decent pair of headphones then.   It's a bit like the days when I used a Sony Walkman Pro cassette deck.  Come to think of it, portable DAT players are going cheap as well, but of course the tapes are more bulky than SD cards.

Lacks the convenience of a built in hard disc or large solid state memory and is more bulky than an iPod etc, but you can't have everything.

Personally, I just accept a lower sound quality when travelling and use MP3 equivalent on the iPhone (with B&W headphones).  Doesn't bother me too much, as most of my listening away from home is actually to audiobooks.

I enjoy the Pono too – I was a Kickstarter and have a silver Patti Smith version – and it drives equally well my Shure IEMs for gym use but also my Fostex 900s in balanced mode, and Sennheiser Momentums on planes. The only thing that irritates me is the startup scanning time, especially in the gym as I hang about in front of the Elliptical waiting.... Tone is very nice, especially mid-range.

A & K Jr with Shure se825 IEMs - foot tappingly delightful!

May upgrade to the AK 320 with Shure 846s when 'my boat comes in'!

I find no need whatsoever for any additional amp or DAC. The AK's unaided sound is delightful, and has volume aplenty.

A Sony NWZX-2 and Shure 846's does it for me. Just sublime. 

If i was looking in 2017, i'd be looking at something like the Chord Mojo as this now looks to have a plug in module to accept memory cards (as part of the Poly Wireless module) available soon

Timmo1341 posted:

A & K Jr with Shure se825 IEMs - foot tappingly delightful!

May upgrade to the AK 320 with Shure 846s when 'my boat comes in'!

I find no need whatsoever for any additional amp or DAC. The AK's unaided sound is delightful, and has volume aplenty.

se 425 IEM - sorry, didn't check my spelling!

Is it just me, or is auto correct becoming ever more random and invasive?

Are you using Tidal as well ? Be careful with AK which does not have download feature, Sony relased new DAPs but no Tidal.

Downloading albums in 16/44 from Tidal and listening with my Sony ZX2 has been a great part of my music, a new album comes out and it is in on my Walkman right away. 

So i strongly suggest a Dap with Tidal download ability, i dont even put albums to my ZX2 just use it with Tidal.

Check the new Pioneer 300-xdp and new Fiio X5 in my opinion or get a second hand ZX2 it is old model but has a very good sound.  But be careful with EU volume Cap - ZX2 can only drive IEMs.

Headphones are all but a huuuuge topic, check noble audio range.

I have a astell & Kern AK240 listening with Grado PS1000 (listening to it now). Also when on the move i use a Cowan P1 and grade GR10e iem's. I think i listen to these more than my main hi-fi which is a Linn/Naim six pack, so not to be snuffed at.

Lots of great suggestions - it partly depends whether you you want 'personal' also to be 'portable'. For example, the Little Dot MkIII recommended by SiS is definitely personal, but those valves won't respond well to being slung in a backpack.

If you want portable then I highly recommend the AQ Dragonfly Black. It's a DAC, so you'll need your smartphone too, but that's a good thing; your smartphone already has a screen, control software and storage, so you don't need to duplicate those. For around £100 (including the 'tail') you'll have really good sound, and it has a lot of Naim about it - tons of PRaT and buoyancy. It's an enthusiastic little thing, much more so than the 1.2 version. I use one on the move and if I'm working in crowded places, with a MacBook or a phone. It really isn't the most 'pure' sound, but it's perfect for those environments. It's also teeny weeny, which helps.

What kind of battery life do you guys get out of the Pono?

Bart, I've never really stretched the Pono to the point where I've been caught short. I always have the charger ready to go - It can be a bit slow to re-charge though. The Sony ZX-2 was amazing for battery run time.  The A&K was about the same as the Pono, maybe a bit longer.  The iBasso had a rather nifty little feature - a swappable battery (same as a popular Samsung phone).

james n posted:

A Sony NWZX-2 and Shure 846's does it for me. Just sublime. 

If i was looking in 2017, i'd be looking at something like the Chord Mojo as this now looks to have a plug in module to accept memory cards (as part of the Poly Wireless module) available soon

I'm still very happy with my ZX2/846 too. I have a suspicion that the real star of the show might be the Shure SE846, but I haven't had the chance to test other gear very much. I have no intention of changing anything now I've got a setup that works for me. The Mojo/Poly looks interesting, especially if you want to drive more demanding headphones, but portability is a priority for me. It's probably a bit more bulky, but has no more functionality than the Sony as a portable player that I can see.

Timmo1341 posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

A & K Jr with Shure se825 IEMs - foot tappingly delightful!

May upgrade to the AK 320 with Shure 846s when 'my boat comes in'!

I find no need whatsoever for any additional amp or DAC. The AK's unaided sound is delightful, and has volume aplenty.

se 425 IEM - sorry, didn't check my spelling!

Is it just me, or is auto correct becoming ever more random and invasive?

It's not just you...

Richard Dane posted:

Jack, I'd love to see a Naim DAP.  But I'm not sure I'd be willing to bet on it happening... 

Simon, if the idea of a proper DAP appeals then you should definitely try out a Pono. I'm listening to it as I type this reply.  In fact I seem to be listening to the Pono/HD600 combo more than anything else these days, which is a good sign that it's working well.  Right now I have a FLAC CD rip of Kate Bush's Never Forever playing and I'm in heaven...

Hi Richard, just got a pono but not had a chance to listen to it yet. Are you using the HD600's in balanced mode? If so what adaptor cable are you using?

Thanks Prem.