when is Naim going to update streamers for MQA?

I'm sure they've said no already. 

Not seen anything saying that myself - the little input Naim have on these forums suggests they are sitting on the fence. But like Queen's forum about the release of the Rainbow and Hammersmith concerts - silence and then a sudden U-turn. I buy downloads so all isn't lost. 

Dafydd Lorryman posted:

So Naim. If not MQA, what method of Hi-res streaming will you adopt? You have got us to this stage with Tidal it seems strange experiencing the silence. If it is 'No' just say it! You have a new UnitI range to launch and us hi-fi enthusiasts may be waiting for you to make up your mind. I dare say most Naim streamer owners now pay a subscription to Tidal - you have reason to commit. Hi-res is what made me take the plunge into streaming - we are held back by our commitment to the Naim brand. 

I was unaware Naim had deecided not to, the general assumption being that they are likely to be evaluating it before deciding. And if I were Naim I would be assessing the sound quality thoroughly, including the effect of artifacts, and not implementing just because it might sound superficially better, or better only in low resolution systems unless there is no detriment to so doing. There does appear to be a possibility that some people perceive MQA as sounding better, while others hear the artifacts, perhaps in much the same way as some people perceive the noise floor modulation by RF in a DAC making a 'brighter' sound as initially superficially being better.

should Naim decide not to implement MQA, you will still be able to stream hi-res from local files (e.g. Downloaded), and from any online streaming services of high res in non-lossy compressed format, such as from Qobuz. The limiting factor for that is the internet speed, which is where MQA will manage to stream a lossy compressed high res with much the same bandwidth as red book, but with slow internet connections even that is not necessarily a viable service.

Of course, some would argue that hi res doesn't (can't) actually sound better than red book, other than due to different mastering, which if true means the trick would be better mastering of red book from the original mastre recordings. I personally do not yet have a definitive view of whether ther reality matches the theory, if only because of that mastering question: I've heard dome hi res sounding better than red book version, and others vice versa. 

Dafydd Lorryman posted:

So Naim. If not MQA, what method of Hi-res streaming will you adopt? You have got us to this stage with Tidal it seems strange experiencing the silence. If it is 'No' just say it! You have a new UnitI range to launch and us hi-fi enthusiasts may be waiting for you to make up your mind. I dare say most Naim streamer owners now pay a subscription to Tidal - you have reason to commit. Hi-res is what made me take the plunge into streaming - we are held back by our commitment to the Naim brand. 

If you've done research you'd realise that a MQA compatible DAC would require a redesign, or if software based, considerable redevelopment. Apparently Naim are not happy with the efficiency of the current MQA decoding code. So they could implement it now, but would you want it at the cost of normal hires playback quality from Naim?

I'm neither here nor there about MQA, but it seems many, many hoops have to be jumped through to achieve playback. It seems to be an experiment that's only practical in the lab.

I'm also a bit cynical of NAD, they seem to offer MQA only in their higher end products. Should the popular 3020d amp not be compatible by now? 

But MQA is hardly high fidelity with all those introduced aliasing artefacts - which it appears they rely on Joe Bloggs not noticing - it might be however Naim explore to look at MQA software decoding in the Qb and Mu-so range of products where I suspect it is better suited - and have a realistic limit on the extent of the replay fidelity - and where the more typical wifi connections might benefit from the lossy  hidef compression..

I suspect they are waiting to see what Apple does, in all honesty.

Naim doesnt set wire standards. There are only a very few companies in the world that can. Apple can. Google can. Amazon high marginal.

Samsung very marginal. Sony marginal.

Microsoft used to.

Tidal? Nah...

Linn has a very interesting article on MQA. 

I can post the link, but it basically says that MQA is an attempt to get more money out of everyone's pockets. It's about complete control and money extraction for the studio at every level of the process. 

Who cares what Linn says ... what matters is what the 3 big record company's do.

With Universal coming onboard with MQA HiRes audio streaming, that only leaves Sony Records to make their announcement. If Sony can resist the urge to go Beta on us, the entire Music industry can get back on track after that derailment called Napster. 

Lord help us if the record industry can finally make some money again and promote musicians other then the 1% 'ers. Imagine radio stations streaming "new music" with HiRes, Record Labels with promoters once again searching for talent. Normal folk excited about Music again ... Gasp!

Apple, Amazon & Google can go piss up a rope IMO. 

With these format wars it's always about where the power is. When a lot of big labels get on board it will have an impact on the market. So I assume with the recent announcements that we haven't seen the last of MQA. I am not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.

Bert Schurink posted:

With these format wars it's always about where the power is. When a lot of big labels get on board it will have an impact on the market. So I assume with the recent announcements that we haven't seen the last of MQA. I am not sure if that's a good or a bad thing.

Taking the Zen approach  ... "we'll see" ... said the Master.

Bill Allen posted:

Who cares what Linn says ... what matters is what the 3 big record company's do.

With Universal coming onboard with MQA HiRes audio streaming, that only leaves Sony Records to make their announcement. If Sony can resist the urge to go Beta on us, the entire Music industry can get back on track after that derailment called Napster. 

Lord help us if the record industry can finally make some money again and promote musicians other then the 1% 'ers. Imagine radio stations streaming "new music" with HiRes, Record Labels with promoters once again searching for talent. Normal folk excited about Music again ... Gasp!

Apple, Amazon & Google can go piss up a rope IMO. 

So you're saying that MQA will somehow benefit musicians?

Analogmusic, following my earlier reply above, I have discovered that Naim have been assessing the feasibility of adding MQA capability.  The good news is that it looks like the new Uniti platform has adequate power to process the format. However, there's a considerable resource required to implement it, so any decision will depend on performance, market demand/take-up and of course cost implications.  So we'll just have to wait and see...

I can't image Naim not including MQA decoding with their new line of "Uniti" components, in fact the name itself would be hypocritical without its inclusion.  With HiRes streaming becoming mainstream, I would hope they would include enough foresight and processing power to handle any software adaptable format that may come down the pipe.

While its easy to predict "mainstream" ownership of music becoming a relic of the past with on demand and streaming taking over ... just like it did with video. Coming into focus inside my crystal ball is HiRes radio stations ... both online and terrestrial. With just the smallest amount of imagination sources of revenue abound in all directions. A good thing in a capitalistic world if progress is to take root. 

While there was indeed reason to be pessimistic given 20 years of stagnation in the record industry, there's finally a glimmer of hope for a new business model rising from the ashes. With MQA being just one step on a long road to recovery for the recording industry. 

Bill Allen posted:

I can't image Naim not including MQA decoding with their new line of "Uniti" components, in fact the name itself would be hypocritical without its inclusion.  With HiRes streaming becoming mainstream, I would hope they would include enough foresight and processing power to handle any software adaptable format that may come down the pipe.

While its easy to predict "mainstream" ownership of music becoming a relic of the past with on demand and streaming taking over ... just like it did with video. Coming into focus inside my crystal ball is HiRes radio stations ... both online and terrestrial. With just the smallest amount of imagination sources of revenue abound in all directions. A good thing in a capitalistic world if progress is to take root. 

---

While there was indeed reason to be pessimistic given 20 years of stagnation in the record industry, there's finally a glimmer of hope for a new business model rising from the ashes. With MQA being just one step on a long road to recovery for the recording industry. 

 

How has HiRes become mainstream all of a sudden?  Outside of this forum and similar, I see no flocking to hi-res, or even awareness of it, let alone any concern for what the benefits might be.  4k on an i-phone is more likely to become 'mainstream' than any of this.

Well [@mention:53097172979470722] it wasn't on the prototype Uniti's i heard - and when I have asked Naim the answer has been MQA is too immature at this time with respect to code and software library efficiency  and so would not be commensurate  with Naim quality but they are keeping an eye on developments.

Considering some of the requirements for sharing your design with MQA I would say never unless it takes over the world. 

What matters Simon is what Naim decides to put inside their production Uniti products. More processing power will keep the Uniti line from becoming outdated the moment it hits the streets, hopefully they had time to make changes on this front. 

With HiRes "becoming" mainstream, MP3 is dead as dead, there's simply no money left to extract from this format. HiRes is the 4K of the Music Industry ... MQA is simply the first vehicle.

 As I said they have a long ways to go ...

What evidence do you say MP3 is dead? Is that not just wishful thinking? I suspect  MP3 is the most ubiquotis digital encoding format globally by a huge margin and growing... I just can't see on any perspective how any one can credibly say MP3 is dead..

Also is  hires mainstream? Really ? I guess if you asked most what is hires they would give a blank stare or say they their TV does it...

Agree on what matters is what is released for production. Hopefully they are getting close. I have my eyes on a Nova

To suggest that Hi Res is mainstream is just ludicrous. MP3 and AAC are mainstream, CD is for crusties, lossless streaming is off most people's radar, and Hi Res is from another planet as far as most people are concerned. 

ChrisSU posted:

To suggest that Hi Res is mainstream is just ludicrous. MP3 and AAC are mainstream, CD is for crusties, lossless streaming is off most people's radar, and Hi Res is from another planet as far as most people are concerned. 

Albeit FLAC downloads are certainly slowly creeping into mainstream, especially for younger music enthusiasts... who know that AAC and MP3 is not the be all and end all (which I find really encouraging) 

Come on guys follow the bouncing balls ... MP3's are dead as far as making money for the record company's ... nobody is paying to download anymore. (Most never did) They make very little money on streaming MP3's. They need a new source of income and HiRes offers a new pasture. 

HiRes steaming is coming ... so is 4K for video ... deal with it in your own way.

Richard Dane's post reflects some discussion that may have been in the beta forum about the new platform capability with respect to adding new features such as MQA... and Simon notes that the (limited or lack of) availability of MQA libraries and toolkits for developers is a factor. So too must be the business context, and it is only "days" since MQA have announced major partners in streaming distribution (Tidal) and content (Warner and Universal)... From my chair up in the nosebleeds, I think it isn't exactly "late" for Naim to be deciding whether or not to place a bet on this specific and proprietary technology. Their choice to embrace Chromecast, already widely adopted and embedding in apps and services, but to do it at "Naim levels of performance" seems much more sensible / less risky (at the time serious development must have started). The de-risked (but certainly not risk free or market proven) landscape for MQA is only about five minutes old! Focus on shipping products against existing announcements has to be job one. I want my Nova now; I can wait for MQA as a cool new free upgrade via firmware (just as I got for Tidal, DSD, multi-room play, and more with the original product line). I think we need to pick fewer things to complain about not having yet ha ha ha!

Regards alan

 edit:

ps - as bandwidth increases and onboard memory for buffering drops in cost, the feasibility of full-fat hires streaming above red book rates also increases; MQA isn't the only way to bring higher res forward, just as 4K live and on demand "streaming" or "broadcasting" on television networks is arriving in spite of bandwidth levels that would have been terrifying not that long ago

Speaking of dealing with, I just found out there is no phono input on any of the new Naim Uniti components.

While they all offer an analog to digital converter to stream on your network. No MQA, no Phono input ... humm ... what exactly are they going to unify.

Pessimism