New Kudos Titan 707

heihei posted:

The guys from Kudos got back to me. They've been working on an active solution for the 808 with Naim electronics. Once sorted, it will then be over to Naim to see if they will implement a SNAXO. I for one would certainly be keen to hear it.

I would imagine the new project would incorporate:

SCDR--+Snaxo--+Naim Amps--+Kudos Speakers

 What the heck, throw a 552 & NDS/CD555

Who knows, Maybe Focal trying to get into the equation!

I'm holding out!

Cdx2/282/HCDR/3 x 250.2/Briks

Somethings Brewing @ Naim Audio!

Perhaps New Snaxo technology!

Allante93!

sunbeamgls posted:

Chris Bell posted:

I own a pair of Kudos T88's.  The bass performance is excellent, but like any high-end speaker, it's what's upstream that matters.  As to the "shouty" comment, my experience has been that is caused by poor soldering joints and incorrect speaker pins.  Derrick (the designer) was very helpful when I took delivery of my pair and sorting out problems.  He's a very bright designer and uses Naim electronics to voice his speakers.  

Naim amps, but not necessarily sources, at least judging from the equipment they take to shows.

which sources do they use?

On the Kudos Facebook page they say they're hoping to run the 707s active at Bristol.  But they're not naming names.  Might be a clue, might be a double bluff or something.

analogmusic posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

Chris Bell posted:

I own a pair of Kudos T88's.  The bass performance is excellent, but like any high-end speaker, it's what's upstream that matters.  As to the "shouty" comment, my experience has been that is caused by poor soldering joints and incorrect speaker pins.  Derrick (the designer) was very helpful when I took delivery of my pair and sorting out problems.  He's a very bright designer and uses Naim electronics to voice his speakers.  

Naim amps, but not necessarily sources, at least judging from the equipment they take to shows.

which sources do they use?

It depends on the show as sometimes they will use a Naim or Devialet streamer but seem to prefer a Klimax DS. 

At Indulgence they used a Dragonfly from time to time as the DAC, plugged into an Apple laptop.  The rest of the time it was a Melco into the Devialets.

At the National Hifi Show there were 2 rooms with Cymbiosis - one all Linn Exakt, the other Naim passive with a Klimax LP12.

For vinyl they use a deceptively simple looking turntable from Bauer DPS, but it sounds great.  It carries an Aro   - and a Dynavector XV-1.

Indulgence 2016:

Chester 2014:

Frank Abela posted:

 

LOL, in fact it has a third one but the speaker is configured as a 2.5 way so not sure how much it counts nor where in the bass spectrum it comes in. 

It could simply be that the type of bass presentation, which is very clean, is just not for you. Many people struggle when the bass presentation is totally clean - they expect a little euphonic warmth which acts as a comfort. Unfortunately, it often acts as a soak which doesn't allow the speaker to drive as quickly. Not sure, maybe something else was at play, so many variables...

Thanks for the ray of light!

Frank.

Frank, as we all know, speaker choice is very personal. The 808's were trial number 6 on my list. I had to fly to the UK. Hire a car, drive for 2 hours etc, not to mention a great pub lunch before the show. From all I had read, the 808 was globally praised by all. I had high expectations. In the end they did not provide that wow moment for me. My speaker search was basically reduced to "I'll know it when I hear it". I did not hear it unfortunately. For me the bass was lean and dry, not clean. Overall the upper end dominated too much for my tastes. At this point the Magico S3 was the best I had heard. For the price, size, reputation and my misplaced optimism, I was disappointed by the 808. Fine speakers though they may be. Just not my cup of tea. My final demo, some months later did provide the Road to Damascus moment.

What a crazy hobby we have.

Dave  

so how does the B&W 802D3 compare to the magico. Maybe I can revisit B&W again... I did like my previous 805s a lot.

Bodger posted:

Frank Abela posted:

 

LOL, in fact it has a third one but the speaker is configured as a 2.5 way so not sure how much it counts nor where in the bass spectrum it comes in. 

It could simply be that the type of bass presentation, which is very clean, is just not for you. Many people struggle when the bass presentation is totally clean - they expect a little euphonic warmth which acts as a comfort. Unfortunately, it often acts as a soak which doesn't allow the speaker to drive as quickly. Not sure, maybe something else was at play, so many variables...

Thanks for the ray of light!

Frank.

Frank, as we all know, speaker choice is very personal. The 808's were trial number 6 on my list. I had to fly to the UK. Hire a car, drive for 2 hours etc, not to mention a great pub lunch before the show. From all I had read, the 808 was globally praised by all. I had high expectations. In the end they did not provide that wow moment for me. My speaker search was basically reduced to "I'll know it when I hear it". I did not hear it unfortunately. For me the bass was lean and dry, not clean. Overall the upper end dominated too much for my tastes. At this point the Magico S3 was the best I had heard. For the price, size, reputation and my misplaced optimism, I was disappointed by the 808. Fine speakers though they may be. Just not my cup of tea. My final demo, some months later did provide the Road to Damascus moment.

What a crazy hobby we have.

Dave  

My apologies if I came across as trying to explain the situation. I guess one man's clean is another man's lean and dry. And yes, after all that effort it's a hell of a disappointment when the item in question doesn't do it for you, crikey! Glad to hear your moment came in the end. I do find that transducers are such a difficult choice. And once I've settled on one it takes a lot to move me on from it, be it a cartridge or a speaker. 

Frank.

Yes, choosing speakers is really difficult, particularly if your room is small and they need to go against the wall. It's very good that the various Kudos speakers work quite close, from what I've heard. And I owe Kudos a debt of gratitude - I wouldn't have found my current speakers had their previous owner not upgraded to a pair of S20s. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, choosing speakers is really difficult, particularly if your room is small and they need to go against the wall. It's very good that the various Kudos speakers work quite close, from what I've heard. And I owe Kudos a debt of gratitude - I wouldn't have found my current speakers had their previous owner not upgraded to a pair of S20s. 

HH is right - It's a particular problem in the UK where many, or most, of us live city or suburban houses where the reception rooms are typically of moderate size.  This makes speaker demos problematical because dealer rooms are sometimes somewhat larger than domestic rooms - a speaker that performs well at the shop may be completely unusable at home. I found this to be the case, for example, with the Focal 1028be - worked a treat at the store, un-tamable bass at home.  The joy of the Linn Isobariks was that they were designed for UK homes and went hard against the wall - they sounded brilliant in the big Sound Org upstairs demo room in Southwark and performed equally well when one got them home. Similar advantage with Kudos - my S20's are within a foot of the wall/bookcase.  If the 707's can pull off a similar trick to the 'brisk I might be tempted to raid the piggy bank.

bl***dy auto spell-check again - briks not brisk

bluedog posted:

bl***dy auto spell-check again - briks not brisk

Start raiding, I think this is one advantage the 707's might  have over the 808's.

A pair of Diamonds, slightly toed inward, and seated close to both walls!

Just a guess!

Allante93!

BTW, they aren't bad on the eyes!

sunbeamgls posted:

 

Not a vinyl user anymore (well not for a very long time) but i'd have that DPS TT in a shot if i was. Gorgeous bit of kit. I'd just be happy staring at it 

^  I just noticed how much the shiny Devialets emphasise a mass of cables - making them look at least twice as bad.  They should do a matt black option!

james n posted:

sunbeamgls posted:

 

. Gorgeous bit of kit. I'd just be happy staring at it 

One mans beauty is another mans beast.

analogmusic posted:

so how does the B&W 802D3 compare to the magico. Maybe I can revisit B&W again... I did like my previous 805s a lot.

@analogue, it's a while since I listened to the Magicos. You can search for my thread "Speaker Shootout". These were the 4th pair in one sitting. They were fast and had a very cohesive sound. Compared to the previous Wilsons, Focals and Sonus Fabers, they stood out. Very good pieces of Hifi kit and that may be why I did not pull the trigger. In comparison, the D3's just disappear. Much as I remember the 805's when I heard these back in 2004. In short, the Magico S3's are more expensive, uglier and less good that the 802's. Pretty good reasons, for me at least, to go the way I went. Also, the S3 is due a Mark II version, the S5 has already had this

I thought the 802's were fuggly from the pictures but in real life, they are easy to live with. Even Mrs. Bodger likes them aesthetically and can hear the difference. Both are certainly worth a listen. At this price point, there is lots of choice. I also liked the Arts that I had on home demo. Again not exactly cheap for the 12" driver version. If you can take pain and guilt in equal measure, do listen to the 800D3. I jibbed on this due to the price.

Finally, I am glad the speaker project is over and the listening project can continue.

Dave

Chris Bell posted:

  As to the "shouty" comment, my experience has been that is caused by poor soldering joints and incorrect speaker pins.

Pretty finicky those Kudos.  

Hi Badlands

Just wanted to update on my Focus 260, seems they needed a few hundred hours of running in time, but now finally the ups and downs are gone, and they sound absolutely superb to me.

I don't hear what was described by the strat "the music suffers at low volumes". or that 250 isn't powerful enough to drive them. I mean 250DR and F260 is a domestic speaker/amplifer, not a PA rig.

It would take something really special to make me move away from these speakers, possibly only Dynaudio confidence range or upwards.... or maybe B&W 800 series (but they are now so expensive)

They will certainly need running in.   But most all of this is room dependent.  

sunbeamgls posted

 

Chester 2014:

Is that a SN2 in the Kudos room? It can't be, because one of the experts in this forum thinks it sounds dull and lacks emotion, no sparkle.

Hmmm,  Mr. Bell, I wonder why they would use such a pitiful amp to demonstrate such fine speakers??????

Does that turntable have a granite top? It looks rather like our worktop. 

badlands posted:

sunbeamgls posted

 

Chester 2014:

Is that a SN2 in the Kudos room? It can't be, because one of the experts in this forum thinks it sounds dull and lacks emotion, no sparkle.

Hmmm,  Mr. Bell, I wonder why they would use such a pitiful amp to demonstrate such fine speakers??????

It is an SN2. That year (2014) they were playing the just about to be launched X3. A reasonable apportioning of budget in that price band.

badlands posted:

Chris Bell posted:

  As to the "shouty" comment, my experience has been that is caused by poor soldering joints and incorrect speaker pins.

Pretty finicky those Kudos.  

badlands,

you seem to have selectively omitted a key aspect of Chris' reply; specifically ....

Chris Bell posted:

.... it's what's upstream that matters ....

I'd say components like speaker plugs and the quality of connections become increasingly critical with higher level gear irrespective of the speaker manufacturer. High level gear is revealing and will expose flaws in the chain upstream of the speakers. Seems logical to me that mismatched plugs and/or poor soldering might be included among these flaws.

Beyond that, Chris was relaying his direct experience with his Titans in his home. Chris is diligent, has been at the Naim game for decades, and his system sounds absolutely superb. If he says plug matching and quality soldering were important in that end result I wouldn't doubt him for a second.

can't comment on Chris Bell's experience with Nait 2 vs Supernait 2, as I heard neither, but I never now understand how amps are discussed in isolation, as cables change the sound, speakers change the sound, and most of all source changes the sound.

What I will say that for all the love of olive and CB, when I have heard NDX into 102/180, I could immediately tell, it was a step back from 202/200 and I don't understand at all, all the nostalgia about olive, given it sounds harsher, less resolution.... and more digital. the current classic range is more refined and has no harshness at all...

On the other hand HH on another thread stated that the exurance of a 552 is something an earlier preamp like 42 could easily pull off. So are we going in the right direction or not, who knows, compare the cost of a 42 preamp with a 552.

a dealer once told me that CB and Olive were voiced for an era where sources were relatively softer sounding and less dynamic, like Vinyl, tape and FM radio....

well, the latest digital sources like chord hugo  are now sounding a lot more refined and going back to "analog" sound. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Does that turntable have a granite top? It looks rather like our worktop. 

Go and check if your worktop has a roughly 45cm X 35cm chunk missing out of it Mr Halibut. If it has, you'll have them bang to rights, the swines.