Olive XPS with nDac

Should be v good if the price is right. You can't dr it

Why not going full olive with a CDX or a CDS? You might otherwise want to stay consistent with the nDAC design and pick an XP5 or a XPS2.

Chag -

I would also consider a Olive Supercap made a big difference when I had my Olive system.

I didn't you could use an olive XPS on the Dac? Doesn't it say this in the manual??

Yes, an olive XPS is fine on an nDAC, as current drawn by the nDAC's digital circuits is low.

However, it can't power a streamer (eg: NDX) due to their higher digital current requirements - it will overheat very rapidly. 

Yes, an olive XPS is fine on an nDAC, as current drawn by the nDAC's digital circuits is low - I ran one before acquiring an XPSDR which was noticably cleaner in the transients.

However, it can't power a streamer (eg: NDX) due to their higher digital current requirements - it will overheat very rapidly. 

The olive XPS can be used with the nDAC. When the XPS is used, the digital circuits are still powered from the nDAC internal supply.

I found it didn’t improve the nDAC into an olive/CB system. In fact I found the CDS2 was far better than the nDAC, full stop.

I think the nDAC is voiced to put PRAT into newer black boxes. However, the olive system already has plenty of PRAT.

The result, too much PRAT. IMO.

fatcat posted:

The olive XPS can be used with the nDAC. When the XPS is used, the digital circuits are still powered from the nDAC internal supply.

I found it didn’t improve the nDAC into an olive/CB system. In fact I found the CDS2 was far better than the nDAC, full stop.

I think the nDAC is voiced to put PRAT into newer black boxes. However, the olive system already has plenty of PRAT.

The result, too much PRAT. IMO.

That would mean the olive amps have more PRAT than the Black Classic series?

it may well be so, never listened to Olive and classic side by side, may do this one day, just to get curiosity out of my mind.

I also was told, that olive and CB was voiced in era of softer sources with less dynamic range like FM, tape and Vinyl

Digital has greater dynamic range which needed the black boxes to be more neutral, therefore more need from the source to sound engaging. But then CDS/1 was introduced in 1992, the era of olive?

Can someone with a lot more experience with Olive boxes elaborate on this?

I would love to get an olive Supercap or CDS but unfortunately they are very hard to find here in the States.  

Very interesting comments about olive vs. black prat.  Can anyone confirm that black was in fact designed to be more neutral, and that the nDac was designed to bring extra prat?  

The comments are consistent with my experience, even if it is just a coincidence.  My Nait2 has more prat that my fully rebuilt 112/flatcap2/150 system.  My new 82/hicap/250 system has massive prat.  I also have an nDac as well as a V-1.  The nDac has significantly more prat than the V-1.  

Has anyone else experienced prat overdose from pairing an olive XPS with an nDac?

A "PRaT overdose" seems an amusing concept to me.  My mental model is that a system with "PRaT" is capable to keep up with, or convey, the pace rhythm and timing of the playback signal from the recorded performance.  A system which does this well simply passes the input signals without distortion, time smear, phase shift, added noise, or limiting of the dynamic range.  Therefor "PRaT" is the absence of distortions.  How can one have to much of that?

I am pretty sure that Naim do not have (nonlinear) dynamic expansion in their amps - I expect that would destroy the timing.  But as you move up the Naim heirarchy, in olive or black, systems will increasingly reveal the amazing amount of dynamics and musical texture which are present in good music recordings.

Charlie

Maybe "prat overdose" was a poor choice of words.  My underlying concern is just whether nDac + olive XPS will be like trying to mate cats and dogs, or if it would deliver a positive step forward for the nDac.

ngarritson posted:

Maybe "prat overdose" was a poor choice of words.  My underlying concern is just whether nDac + olive XPS will be like trying to mate cats and dogs, or if it would deliver a positive step forward for the nDac.

ngarritson,

No offense intended.  I suspect the nDAC will be fine in an olive system, but haven't heard that.  Maybe someone will report their experience.

Charlie

regardless of the choice of words, this is something I would like to get some more opinions of, there are too many posts and people that say the olive gear and CB gear boogies more.

The recent "ndac upgrade" thread was started in the context of a 52/135*6/DBL system, look it up it's only a page back. Its OP has posted the first answer to this one.

The 112 was the pre version of the Nait5, not their finest.

 

The result, too much PRAT. IMO.

One SQ attribute of the Olive range is a more forward presentation that may sometimes be perceived as enhanced PRaT. While the Black ranges offer less of that forward presentation, except maybe for the 282, they definitely not miss PRaT. 

Chag -   

well I do enjoy  my 282.... 

CharlieP posted:

ngarritson posted:

Maybe "prat overdose" was a poor choice of words.  My underlying concern is just whether nDac + olive XPS will be like trying to mate cats and dogs, or if it would deliver a positive step forward for the nDac.

ngarritson,

No offense intended.  I suspect the nDAC will be fine in an olive system, but haven't heard that.  Maybe someone will report their experience.

Charlie

The NDac was my first new Naim purchase for a long long time - having used 72/135's/Briks for a decade or more. It was probably this that prompted me to start on the upgrade path again as it revealed so much more to my CD collection. It was an immediate improvement in all the traditional and well respected Naim areas. With the new firmware it adds a level of sofistication a kin to maybe upgrading your amp.

I still have one piece of olive kit left, my beloved 52, but until a 552 comes my way I'm more than happy with performance and have noticed any real PRATproblems mixing kit up.

If I was honest I think there's a teeny tiny level of murk/grain/forwardness that olive kit has and I think it's this that adds to the slight level of excitement and fun you hear as your head/hearing works a little bit harder. The later kit strips this away a little bit but adds so much more realism that I think that timing aspect actually improves. I also noticed this when upgrading from the 72 to 52, some of the fun seems to have gone but extended listening just revealed that you can hear much so deeper into the musical structure and subtleties that it becomes quite an immersive experience previously missed.

Geko posted:

...

If I was honest I think there's a teeny tiny level of murk/grain/forwardness that olive kit has and I think it's this that adds to the slight level of excitement and fun you hear as your head/hearing works a little bit harder. The later kit strips this away a little bit but adds so much more realism that I think that timing aspect actually improves. I also noticed this when upgrading from the 72 to 52, some of the fun seems to have gone but extended listening just revealed that you can hear much so deeper into the musical structure and subtleties that it becomes quite an immersive experience previously missed.

Geko,

I agree with you that some listeners may find distortions in the equipment to add a certain "excitement" (not the best word...) on some or many recordings.  Thus they find some gear up the line too "polite."  This is a valid preference, but may not likely apply to other recordings such as acoustic jazz or classical?

Charlie