DR Amp Characteristics

Not even going into how hicap vs supercap on the preamp changes the amp's characteristics...

What change are you contemplating to your system MM?

Wondering if I should get my 300 DR upgraded to go with the NDS/552 (all-DR) - or use the NDS)552 with the 250DR instead and wait for a good deal on the 500DR. I realize I'll be waiting a long time - but that's OK.

The 250DR sounds great with the NDS/552 already. The non-DR 300 is better in some ways, but the 250DR is actually more fun. 

Current systems/gear: all DR except the 300:

NDS, 552, 272,250 and 300.

Also looking to disband one system - so the 272 will go with either the 300 or the 250..

 The kudos Super 20s will go too - the totem forest signatures are a great match with the 250DR.

The kudos Super 20s and the 300 are a great pairing.

My recent tests (after a hiatus of more than a year) lead me to believe that that the 252/300 is a great pairing - and when people complained that the 252 is not as fun as the 282, well, the 300 was made to go with the 252, so draw your own conclusions..  to be clear, the 300 does seem like a clear step above the 250.2 - but it's also a different amp with totally different sound signature...

 Second system can be a unitiqute...

I'd get the 300 DRed and keep it.  The 250DR is a great, great amp but the 300DR does everything that the 250DR does but better.  Swapping out a 250DR for a 300DR in the same system just made me want to sit back with a glass of decent red wine (e.g. a Washington State Pinot Noir) and play album after album.  It stopped being excellent hifi and became immersive music.  

I detected a very noticeable change in musical signature when going from 250.2 to 250DR, yet the sonic signatures of the 250DR and 300DR came across as quite similar when I heard them together. This was with a 272/XPSDR.  I haven't heard a 272 with a 555PSDR, though I recall reading that Naim's US rep really rates the 272/555PSDR/300DR.  So if you like what the 250DR does for you musically, the 300DR should give you a whole lot more of similar but better.  YMMV.

Best regards, FT

I've alluded to this in answer to your thoughts post but to go into a bit more detail:

With a CDX2 above a 552 and a superline below that and either an empty shelf or a 250-2 at the bottom and to the right of that a stack of 3 power supplies with the 250 or an empty shelf at the bottom my system sounded lively and engaging and boogied with the best. putting a 16 year old unserviced 500 at the bottom of the left stack and its ps at the bottom of the right gave a more detailed result but the boogie fell away. Moving the 500ps up its stack from bottom to 3rd which raised the Burndys off the carpet gave incrimental improvement. At this point I got word to send the 500 in for a service and DRing and replaced the 250 in the system. The boogie came back, I hadn't quite realised how much I'd lost until then. I blamed it on the lack of service but when the 500 came backI lost it again. The Burndys I'd sent with it came back limper necessitating another step up for the 500 ps. Some considerable time and several restackings later I swapped the 552 and CDX2, the boogie came back and then some. In this arrangement the base of the 552 is level with the top of the 500ps and 14" to the side instead the base being level with the top of a supercap with the 500ps above that. there's also the matter of the unused transformer in the CDX2 and what it was doing with the 500ps' magnetic field. Removing the CD player and its 555ps entirely has further improved things but this time incrimentally again. Attributing cause is rather tentative of course and I'm content not to experiment further until my new turntable arrives in a month or two.

I would, and I did, have the 300 updated to DR. A no brainer really with a 552.  

Chag -

@yeti - what does the stacking order look like now?

MM - I think your description of the previous non-DR range was spot on - in effect if you were in the 200/300 camp you may not have preferred the 250/500 although speaker matching plays a big part as well.

I can't comment on the new 200DR but in a way that's unimportant as the DR facility is only to power a pre-amp albeit important if you're using a 282 or 202 without a PSU.  However, having heard the 250DR, 300 DR and 500 DR I would say there is now a consistent lineage - as FT says you just get more as you go up the range. 

As far as the S20s go I couldn't comment on how they paired with the old 250 but having had them now for a month on the 282/HC/250DR configuration I can say that it really is a superb pairing.  In fact I'm preparing a full review but see my separate thread - PB heard the demo pair and agreed.

Regards,

Lindsay

IMO the 500 totally outclasses the 300 in the same way the 552 outclasses the 252. I do not have a high opinion of Kudos speakers or their ability to reveal the differences, especially in the bass and midrange.

The 552 benefits from air around it.

I'm ken to hear what you think the difference between non-DR and DR sonic signature as my 250.2 is likely to get the DR treatment when the coffers allow.

Its a totally different amp. If you love the 250.2- don't get the DR upgrade. It's better - but also a totally different amp.

On the left:

Elite Rock

552

empty

superline

500dr

On the right:

tivo (vidio recorder)

Nad 4020A (tuner)

500ps

supercap

552ps

DVD5

Speakers are still NBLs

I have a Core on the way but am undecided how to play back from it. Plan A was for a unitiserve and NDS but I might get a cheap dac and await developments. I might try the superline one shelf up but need to get used to this first. The DVD is a stand in but I'm quite enjoying it; my wife says she can hear it distorting the music from upstairs.

DR Amp Characteristics

Not having a life, I read up on DR Reviews and of course, tune in to the Forum.

Adjectives that I run across quite often are, leaner, faster, and quieter! 

So, I kind of get the leaner/faster DR technology being different from the meatier 250.2/500 camp. 

But the quieter is what I'm looking for, or as HH says Black Inky Darkness, I guess! 

Just got my Cdx2 back from Audio Plus, and been doing some serious listening. To the point that the dreaded humming caught my attention.  So, in my case I have 3 amps, and a HCDR. 

Passive Tri-Amped Briks 

1st, I turned the volume completely down, no change in Hum! 

2nd, I turned the PS off, hardly noticeable  change

3rd, turned each amp off in sequence, and the hum reduced drastically, hence I'm posting this reply. 

Repeated this process a couple of times, then I noticed, I still had a hum, but from where, All Bronze was shut down, The digital CD was still powered.  

Turned it off, and bingo, Black Inky Darkness, Silence, the way we all wish are Systems sounded powered up.

Question: Does the DR Amps have less Humming than its predecessors ?

Yes.

MM let me know what you decide!

Something tells me I'm going to get sucked underground at work again for another year or so.. - So nothing to decide. Death march here I come... 

Will leave systems the way they are.

Another thing though - you need to give time for the system to grow on you - so there is no right answer - just what you get used to - is a big part of it - something that folks won't admit.

MM - you think too much

MM,

Don't wish to hijack your thread but am really interested to understand why you think the Forest signatures are a good match for the 250 and Kudos S20s for the 300. Am thinking of the Forest Sigs for my 252DR/300DR so keen to hear your thoughts.

Bill

Hi had a 250.2 which I upgraded to DR. The 250.2 was warmer sounding, more closed in and less dynamic in the base (still a good amp). The 250dr threw out more detail and was much more explicit and punchier (in a good foot tapping way) .... a very good amp.

I then changed to the 500 non dr ... this blew the 250dr away........ finesse, detail,space/air and sheer guts - but the amp had the same sonic warmth to the base as 250.2 but better controlled. I had the 500dr upgraded ........ again same story as above more detail, much more explicit and punchier (in a good foot tapping way) ... again warmth reduced but base greatly improved and extended.

These are my humble findings........... to my even more humble ears!

Richieroo posted:

Hi had a 250.2 which I upgraded to DR. The 250.2 was warmer sounding, more closed in and less dynamic in the base (still a good amp). The 250dr threw out more detail and was much more explicit and punchier (in a good foot tapping way) .... a very good amp.

I then changed to the 500 non dr ... this blew the 250dr away........ finesse, detail,space/air and sheer guts - but the amp had the same sonic warmth to the base as 250.2 but better controlled. I had the 500dr upgraded ........ again same story as above more detail, much more explicit and punchier (in a good foot tapping way) ... again warmth reduced but base greatly improved and extended.

These are my humble findings........... to my even more humble ears!

Good to hear from you Richieroo!

Well Rich, if you decide to stick with Naim,  it's only one more Upgrade you can make, as it relates to Amps!

Members of the Forum has stated that Naim's New DR Technology, has dampened the Dreaded HUM!!!!

What did your humble ears detect, during your upgrade, as it relates to the Dreaded HUM! ???

Allante93!

Hum is transformer caused. Not sure going to DR Amps will fix that issue.

My 250DR doesnt hum at all... The 250.2 it replaced did so frequently.. Nothing else has changed with respect to mains etc.

Experience with hum before and after DR on 250 seems to be different. Before I had my 2 250 upgraded hum was very rare. Over the last days I have had audible hum in the morning about the same time, so a new device may be to blaim for it, and not the Dr. Luckily the hum seems to disappear after 10 to 20 minutes, so I am not concerned about it, unless it gets worse.

Claus

I found the DR upgrade on the power amp to have a much greater benefit than on the pre amp or source. It really lifted performance to a new level, however had no impact on transformer hum; I would not have expected it to... It took a balancing transformer with a slight step down to banish any hum from my system.

What's also interesting (too me, at least) is that my 250DR doesnt run as hot as the 250.2 did.