Electricity Tuning

And I also had the suspension under the power distribution installed. As I got it all installed in one go it's difficult to define what of the improvement can be contributed to the power cable, the power distribution and or the suspension. In tests at the dealer I have been able to hear the differences and every aspect was a step up. I never had imagined that suspension under a powerdistribution unit could play such an important role.

Bert Schurink posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

I have missted this thread. Accidentally Bert and I seems to have switched to the same mains block almost at the same time. Very expensive and very good.

claus

Yes for me a kept improving for some time and I have to say I am very satisfied. This evening the better power cable and suspension will be installed. I am really looking forward towards the impact.

Is that under each component or under racks and speaker? Both has a significant impact, but not cheap in a many box Naim setup.

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

I have missted this thread. Accidentally Bert and I seems to have switched to the same mains block almost at the same time. Very expensive and very good.

claus

Yes for me a kept improving for some time and I have to say I am very satisfied. This evening the better power cable and suspension will be installed. I am really looking forward towards the impact.

Is that under each component or under racks and speaker? Both has a significant impact, but not cheap in a many box Naim setup.

Claus

Right now I only have suspension under the Power Distribution. The black boxes are on Frame so they have the proper suspension. The only thing I could add is to put the speakers on special suspension. I will have to see if I do that going forward.....First priority is now to settle this upgrade in and potentially look into room acoustics.....

So first impressions are quite promising. Even just after switching on the system, the sounds was more defined, more focused. So it will be interesting to see what happens when the stuff is getting through the burn in phase.....

Thanks Bert.

ok with the more defined and focused and even unveiling, but what about the famous Naim sound and prat ? has the distribution block with all of its passive filtering altered the sense of prat and foot tapping ?

sbilotta posted:

Thanks Bert.

ok with the more defined and focused and even unveiling, but what about the famous Naim sound and prat ? has the distribution block with all of its passive filtering altered the sense of prat and foot tapping ?

No not at all. The classic Naim traits stay in place while certain aspects of the overall sound improve. Like said before more airy, better defined bass, less noise...., the new power cable removed still a further level of diffused sound.

So bottom line I would recommend it to anybody in the forum, and you don't have to be afraid about the Naim sound....., it's still there in spades....

The break in period of (power) cables is an amazing process. It takes weeks or even longer for cables to show their full potential. Usually the sound quality improves gradually but sometimes there is a relative sudden change (jump or drop) in SQ too. Hard to imagine everything that's going on in these wires... 

Right now I only have suspension under the Power Distribution. The black boxes are on Frame so they have the proper suspension. The only thing I could add is to put the speakers on special suspension. I will have to see if I do that going forward.....First priority is now to settle this upgrade in and potentially look into room acoustics.....

After I talked with my dealer, and I was at 2 demos one at the factory, I bought suspention for all my 3 racks, one is a fraim. The thought of having to use more suspention under  Fraim is hard to accept, but it did work. Currently I have darkz under my Dac on the Fraim and that did also help. Darkz under poweramps and power supplies is also an upgrade, but I am beginning to wonder if there is an end to all this mechanical and electrical resonans  removal.

Claus

 

 posted:

The break in period of (power) cables is an amazing process. It takes weeks or even longer for cables to show their full potential. Usually the sound quality improves gradually but sometimes there is a relative sudden change (jump or drop) in SQ too. Hard to imagine everything that's going on in these wires... 

I have found that the Isotek Optimum works very well on my Rega Aria phonostage and the XPS DR powering the nDAC. Elsewhere, both PowerLines and Optimums take the sweetness out of the music. I tried PLs on the SuperCap DrR and 300 PS DR  moving on gradually but could not put up with it after several weeks.

The difficulty is testing the system with a wide enough range of music to be able to decide what music is better and and what is worse. There is a tendency for some music to sound good at first before it just becomes tiring. 

All other things being equal, I'd say that expensive power cords work better on sources and that the old Naim ones are good enough elsewhere. Perhaps the PL lite is ok as it just deals with the connection with the socket, like the old Crabtree plugs.

It seems that the conditioner that @Bert Schurink is testing at the moment is something quite different apart from the cables etc.

I think my system is sounding pretty good now apart from some days when the mains is not at its best. I do have a dedicated radial. Listening to Stephen Kovacevich playing Schubert Piano Sonata No 21 at the moment. It sounds like a live performance. Just have to be content with when the mains is acceptable, which is far more often than three months ago when I upgraded to the 300 DR and Focal Sopra N2.

sbilotta posted:

Thanks Bert.

ok with the more defined and focused and even unveiling, but what about the famous Naim sound and prat ? has the distribution block with all of its passive filtering altered the sense of prat and foot tapping ?

If you look at the quotes earlier in the thread, and what they are  saying at demos, it is exactly  the Same as Naim's view on  filtering and corrections of the waveform, and the importance of correct earthing.

for a short time I used Isotek power distribution, something that is strongly adviced againsta by Naim and most on the forum, but I felt that Isotek improved the sound, but the switch to Ansuz was better. On the other hand I am using chord cables so I am in the group of people that cannot here the prat degradation that others can hear as soon as  you go away from using Naim cables.

Claus

KTMax posted:

The break in period of (power) cables is an amazing process. It takes weeks or even longer for cables to show their full potential. Usually the sound quality improves gradually but sometimes there is a relative sudden change (jump or drop) in SQ too. Hard to imagine everything that's going on in these wires... 

Yes also saw that with the other cable I tested. So I expect still a further jump in performance for the cables installed yesterday.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Right now I only have suspension under the Power Distribution. The black boxes are on Frame so they have the proper suspension. The only thing I could add is to put the speakers on special suspension. I will have to see if I do that going forward.....First priority is now to settle this upgrade in and potentially look into room acoustics.....

 

After I talked with my dealer, and I was at 2 demos one at the factory, I bought suspention for all my 3 racks, one is a fraim. The thought of having to use more suspention under  Fraim is hard to accept, but it did work. Currently I have darkz under my Dac on the Fraim and that did also help. Darkz under poweramps and power supplies is also an upgrade, but I am beginning to wonder if there is an end to all this mechanical and electrical resonans  removal.

Claus

Yes it's scary what you still can do. Sometimes I am also asking myself to what extend we are still really hearing the improvements, or are we fooling ourselves with some placebo effects.....so far I don't belief it, but the multiples steps in the journey almost let you belief it's like that...

Filipe posted:

 

 posted:

The break in period of (power) cables is an amazing process. It takes weeks or even longer for cables to show their full potential. Usually the sound quality improves gradually but sometimes there is a relative sudden change (jump or drop) in SQ too. Hard to imagine everything that's going on in these wires... 

I have found that the Isotek Optimum works very well on my Rega Aria phonostage and the XPS DR powering the nDAC. Elsewhere, both PowerLines and Optimums take the sweetness out of the music. I tried PLs on the SuperCap DrR and 300 PS DR  moving on gradually but could not put up with it after several weeks.

The difficulty is testing the system with a wide enough range of music to be able to decide what music is better and and what is worse. There is a tendency for some music to sound good at first before it just becomes tiring. 

All other things being equal, I'd say that expensive power cords work better on sources and that the old Naim ones are good enough elsewhere. Perhaps the PL lite is ok as it just deals with the connection with the socket, like the old Crabtree plugs.

It seems that the conditioner that @Bert Schurink is testing at the moment is something quite different apart from the cables etc.

I think my system is sounding pretty good now apart from some days when the mains is not at its best. I do have a dedicated radial. Listening to Stephen Kovacevich playing Schubert Piano Sonata No 21 at the moment. It sounds like a live performance. Just have to be content with when the mains is acceptable, which is far more often than three months ago when I upgraded to the 300 DR and Focal Sopra N2.

I am not testing anymore I have bought the stuff yesterday. The power distribution in a way also conditions the quality of the electricity waves....., while I am in a difficult spot the explain why it works....., I am just very happy with the result. And I also thought my system sounded pretty good until I changed the cable and the power distribution - so still a lot to gain for all.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

sbilotta posted:

Thanks Bert.

ok with the more defined and focused and even unveiling, but what about the famous Naim sound and prat ? has the distribution block with all of its passive filtering altered the sense of prat and foot tapping ?

If you look at the quotes earlier in the thread, and what they are  saying at demos, it is exactly  the Same as Naim's view on  filtering and corrections of the waveform, and the importance of correct earthing.

for a short time I used Isotek power distribution, something that is strongly adviced againsta by Naim and most on the forum, but I felt that Isotek improved the sound, but the switch to Ansuz was better. On the other hand I am using chord cables so I am in the group of people that cannot here the prat degradation that others can hear as soon as  you go away from using Naim cables.

Claus

You seem to be a candidate for the forum cleansing program, as mentioned in another post - by using non Naim products ��, but do enjoy until that moment comes.......

Bert Schurink posted:

And I also thought my system sounded pretty good until I changed the cable and the power distribution - so still a lot to gain for all.

It has been discussed (and argued) many times on this forum but I think the importance of power cords, power distribution and the mains in general is still underestimated by many. 

I'm currently in the break-in phase of my dedicated spur that has been finalised & playing about a week now.  15 meter / 45 ft. of power new cable, connectors, fuses etc. take a while but it's rapidly coming on song now. Amazing and fascinating process. During the months that I've spend figuring out the best setup for me testing cables connectors etc. it became also clear to me that the connectors & plugs play an almost equal role in the end result than the cable itself. I already knew that connectors & plugs play an important role but their influence is even bigger than I thought.

KTMax posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

And I also thought my system sounded pretty good until I changed the cable and the power distribution - so still a lot to gain for all.

It has been discussed (and argued) many times on this forum but I think the importance of power cords, power distribution and the mains in general is still underestimated by many. 

I'm currently in the break-in phase of my dedicated spur that has been finalised & playing about a week now.  15 meter / 45 ft. of power new cable, connectors, fuses etc. take a while but it's rapidly coming on song now. Amazing and fascinating process. During the months that I've spend figuring out the best setup for me testing cables connectors etc. it became also clear to me that the connectors & plugs play an almost equal role in the end result than the cable itself. I already knew that connectors & plugs play an important role but their influence is even bigger than I thought.

Couldn't agree more with you. In my journey two small expense items are still open in this field which I will change soon. 

1. The wall outlet in which I stick the power cord 

2. The fuse of the electricity group for the system.

Should be including electrician for installing it less than 300 euros, but impactful. I will not like others create a dedicated line from downstairs ...., that's a bridge to far for me....

Bert Schurink posted:

In my journey two small expense items are still open in this field which I will change soon. 

1. The wall outlet in which I stick the power cord 

2. The fuse of the electricity group for the system.

 Should be including electrician for installing it less than 300 euros, but impactful.

Agree, both are very good items to upgrade. 

For the wall outlet I can highly recommend a Furutech outlet either gold or rhodium plated. I've auditioned a few outlets and the ones from Furutech sound the best by quite a margin and offer the best & strongest wire terminals too. There is a distinct difference in sound between the gold and rhodium versions btw.

Do you still have the old fashioned ceramic screw-fuses in your house? I hope so as they are the best for SQ and good audio-grade replacements are available. If the electrician is doing his work, ask if he can de- and re-connect & clean the main wires at the main fuse(s) and main switch. You're in for a pleasant and impressive surprise... guaranteed... 

Bert Schurink posted:

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Right now I only have suspension under the Power Distribution. The black boxes are on Frame so they have the proper suspension. The only thing I could add is to put the speakers on special suspension. I will have to see if I do that going forward.....First priority is now to settle this upgrade in and potentially look into room acoustics.....

 

After I talked with my dealer, and I was at 2 demos one at the factory, I bought suspention for all my 3 racks, one is a fraim. The thought of having to use more suspention under  Fraim is hard to accept, but it did work. Currently I have darkz under my Dac on the Fraim and that did also help. Darkz under poweramps and power supplies is also an upgrade, but I am beginning to wonder if there is an end to all this mechanical and electrical resonans  removal.

Claus

Yes it's scary what you still can do. Sometimes I am also asking myself to what extend we are still really hearing the improvements, or are we fooling ourselves with some placebo effects.....so far I don't belief it, but the multiples steps in the journey almost let you belief it's like that...

Ask yourself the logic of how some of these things can possibly make a difference to the supply of electricity, and then ask yourself if your hearing is always the same. 

My hearing certainly isn't always the same - an extreme example is when I have a cold, with congestion in the various nasal passages and sinuses, then something suddenly clears there is a dramatic change in my hearing. But there are also smaller changes that I notice frequently,  for example after yawning and so equalising internal and external ear pressure. 

Changes in people's hearing is far more understandable than anything else with audible step changes in sound quality, some improving and some worsening, during so-called burning in of cables and much other gear...

Aditioning or testing components, cables etc. usually takes several days or even weeks. That cancels out normal fluctuations of your hearing and/or perception. 

The fact that I might or might not understand (or think it's logical) how something works is not that relevant imo. A normal understanding of electricity is not nearly enough to fully understand everything that is going on in cables.

When I'm auditioning cables'n stuff I usually do it blind by asking my wife or a friend to do the changes or swapping. That really takes out the hush hush, bias, preconceptions etc.  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Mulberry, perhaps  Dutch houses typically have three phases delivered to them - I know most in the UK don't. But if one was using multiple phases  to say provide a single split phase supply - the voltage would be 415 volts and not 240 volts --- not really that much use for Naim equipment or most domestic equipment - but useful perhaps for the workshop...

I think Mike was referring to the filter being used as opposed to the electrical supply and its earthing configuration..

 

 

NORMINAL VOLTAGES are 3 ph. 400v   single ph 230v    .uk volts tend to between 230 and 240v.   mine sits around 235v