Should I recap my 32.5?

Yes  - if you want to keep it.

Sister xx

My 32.5 was in dire need of a factory service after surviving 16 years without one.  This would suggest if yours has gone more than about 12 years without a service, then do get it done by either the factory or an approved service agent.  

Some people swear that their pre-amps sound "like new" after 15+ years without a service.  If this is indeed the case, then lucky them.  My own experience would indicate that more frequent servicing of pre-amps is required.  It is not just the power supply electrolytic capacitors that degrade with time...

Hope this helps, FT 

Unlike amps and power supplies, pre-amps don't carry a lot of current so I don't think capacitors fail as quickly.  As to whether a "service" would improve sound quality, only you can determine that by having the 32.5 serviced.  Beware of the psycho-acoustic placebo effect when you get it back, though!

sktn77a posted:

Unlike amps and power supplies, pre-amps don't carry a lot of current so I don't think capacitors fail as quickly.  As to whether a "service" would improve sound quality, only you can determine that by having the 32.5 serviced.  Beware of the psycho-acoustic placebo effect when you get it back, though!

Indeed.  

However, when the Naim Service Department (i.e. Sheila) phoned to say that the performance of my 32.5 was "about to fall over the edge", that it had been sent in "only just in the nick of time" and that they had replaced more components in my 32.5 than in any other that she could remember in recent years, then I suspect that this provides an objective, real world example of a safe upper limit for a half width pre-amp.  Naim's Service Dept. doesn't normally have a reputation for falling under the spell of psycho-acoustic placebo effects, as far as I know.

Best regards, FT 

I have to say my 1987 vintage 32.5 really came on song after Darran serviced it in 2010. Whole new lease of life. Still can't decide whether to trade 'up' to an 82 or to wait until 282s come down in price. So in answer, yes, do it, NOW!

Foot tapper posted:

Sheila phoned to say that the performance of my 32.5 was "about to fall over the edge", that it had been sent in "only just in the nick of time"

"fall over the edge", "nick of time". Dire sounding stuff. Could just as well serve as album titles.

Foot tapper posted:

I suspect that this provides an objective, real world example of a safe upper limit for a half width pre-amp.

 You found "fall over the edge" and "nick of time" objective, real world terms and extended those to a "safe upper limit"?

What consequences might be expected if the "safe upper limit" is exceeded?

Hi Joe,
Component failure (i.e. 100% failure, not just progressive degradation) in the pre-amp, with binary consequences for the power amp and speakers.  Either no musical signal reaches them, or far, far too much signal reaches them.

As owners, we all have the option and the right to ignore warnings such as this though.

Best regards, FT

joerand posted:

 You found "fall over the edge" and "nick of time" objective, real world terms and extended those to a "safe upper limit"?

What consequences might be expected if the "safe upper limit" is exceeded?

The worst case scenario is that the components that provide the phase margin (i.e. in the Nyquist diagram) can go out of spec and the pre-amp will become an oscillator generating a 18V p-p (approx) waveform typically somewhere between 35kHz and 150kHz.

This will have a somewhat deleterious effect on the rest of the system (particularly power-amps and tweeters).

FT & Huge,

Thanks for the replies. I'm not in a position to have to worry about recapping. Just wonder how useful the hypothetical doom and gloom scenarios of not servicing are to the OP. Plenty of folks run older gear well beyond recommended limits and plenty of dealers are selling un-serviced Olive gear in their showrooms. If dealers don't see value in re capping 20 year old gear prior to selling it, I have to wonder about the cost-effectiveness. Plus, reports of gear meltdowns due to neglected service intervals seem non-existent. Mind you, I'm coming from a very limited US experience. UK/European attitudes on the topic may well differ. I get the sense that recapping service is much cheaper in the UK than North America.

Joerand, thanks for this comment.  I am in the US.  The reality is that recapping in the US costs at a minimum the cost of the unit itself.  The word I've heard is that it is worth it for amps and hicaps, maybe not for pre's.  I just wanted to hear what folks here said.  Darran will not do work in the US, and good US options are costly to very costly.  Plus the gear to start with is more expensive.  

Joe, Brad,

Fair enough, especially as a factory service is not cheap here in the UK, so will not be an impulse decision for you in the US either.

The large power supply electrolytic capacitors seem to be the component that first triggers the need for a service.  As these are in the power amps & power supplies (hicap, supercap, XPS etc.) but not in pre-amps, then the need to service power supplies & power amps is well known & understood.

However, whenever I have had a CD head unit or a pre-amp (CDS3, 32.5, 52) serviced, there have been a number of the tantalum capacitors, resistors & other components changed.  I don't know what happens with DIN sockets, switches and other moving contacts.

The performance/rating of the small resistors and tantalum capacitors had gradually drifted/degraded away from their nominal rating.  The circuit will have been designed to tolerate a degree of drift while still retaining stability.  But there are limits and according to the factory, my old 32.5 was right at that limit after 16 years without a service. 

Hope this helps, FT

I have CB140, HC and 42(?) preamp which must be nearly 30 years old. Not been serviced in that time. But I have the capability to test the performance and be sure they are working fine.

Fascinating to note that my last post was edited by someone without a note or attribution, but I will note that it now reads inaccurately - Darran will not accept shipment from or ship units to the US.

I will add that my 160 was recapped (just prior to my purchase by a Naim dealer) by what I believe is now the Naim North America distributor in Canada.  It sounds terrific, although the work itself isn't beautiful, but I don't know if that's typical.  The cost, however, was about $500, not inconsequential, but in that case well worth it.  

I am very glad I have a TVC preamp without the need for capacitors, services, or fancy power cables.

Brad, I edited your post - please see forum rules.  You mentioned the name of a company who are not officially authorised by the Naim factory to undertake service work and who, as a part of their servicing of Naim kit, also offer modifications provided by a company whose name, products and services they have requested are not mentioned or discussed on this forum. So, as they are UK based I substituted their name for "UK".  I will re-edit to remove the entire sentence to ensure it is accurate.

Brad L posted:

Fascinating to note that my last post was edited by someone without a note or attribution, but I will note that it now reads inaccurately - Darran will not accept shipment from or ship units to the US.

I will add that my 160 was recapped (just prior to my purchase by a Naim dealer) by what I believe is now the Naim North America distributor in Canada.  It sounds terrific, although the work itself isn't beautiful, but I don't know if that's typical.  The cost, however, was about $500, not inconsequential, but in that case well worth it.  

Shipping to the US is not a problem if the goods are bought in the UK and are under a certain value, however importing goods on a temporary basis from the US then to be re-exported is a nightmare of paperwork and phone calls. When we get our "special" trading deal things may change  :-)

Not to flog a dead horse, but for perspective on the service costs we face in the US .....

I was at a dealer this week who had a stack of attractive olive boxes; a 90/92/FC combo (un-serviced) with MM card selling for $1700. Warm and charming sound, but no real way for me to assess the depth, resolution, and size of the sound in a foreign room. Just for giggles I looked up the cost of authorized service by AV Options. They don't list service for the 92 or 90, but for sake of rough comparison a 102 rebuild is $850 and a 110 is $1195. The phono card would run $195. In addition, you're responsible for shipping costs both to and from AV Options and we haven't even considered the Flatcap.

A recent post here for servicing a 90/92 was quoted as £300; upgrading-90-92 . That's about $375 USD.

So you don't have to be a math whiz to see why simply running the gear to its death is an economically viable option for US Naimers, especially when there is no guarantee the price of servicing will result in an appreciable VFM upgrade. Otherwise, shipping overseas for service is far less a gamble if all the duties and fees can be calculated up front.

re-build is not a service.

maybe best to ask AV options what is the price for service only

So what's the difference between a service and a recap/re-build I always thought they were one and the same ?

joerand posted:

Not to flog a dead horse, but for perspective on the service costs we face in the US .....

I was at a dealer this week who had a stack of attractive olive boxes; a 90/92/FC combo (un-serviced) with MM card selling for $1700. Warm and charming sound, but no real way for me to assess the depth, resolution, and size of the sound in a foreign room. Just for giggles I looked up the cost of authorized service by AV Options. They don't list service for the 92 or 90, but for sake of rough comparison a 102 rebuild is $850 and a 110 is $1195. The phono card would run $195. In addition, you're responsible for shipping costs both to and from AV Options and we haven't even considered the Flatcap.

A recent post here for servicing a 90/92 was quoted as £300; upgrading-90-92 . That's about $375 USD.

So you don't have to be a math whiz to see why simply running the gear to its death is an economically viable option for US Naimers, especially when there is no guarantee the price of servicing will result in an appreciable VFM upgrade. Otherwise, shipping overseas for service is far less a gamble if all the duties and fees can be calculated up front.

North American pricing is at the whim of the distributor(s) - the retailers have no say. It massively exceeds the UK where Naim do the distribution ...

From what I can gather AV options are offering a rebuild as well as a service, which to me seems a sensible option for an amp as old as a 32.5.

 Let’s say a customer spends $500 on a service, which could be limited to replacing capacitors and any faulty part. In six months time the balance pot, volume pot and selector switch could start to fail, (it could happen, I have a 62 with failed balance pot and a crackly selector switch), they’re not going to very pleased.

 As I understand it, a rebuild will leave the amp in a condition that can be guaranteed not to have a problem for the foreseeable future.

AV Options do a great job here in the US.  But greatness doesn't come cheap......  So unless the equipment has failed, it's pretty cost prohibitive to "recap"/"service"/"DR" vs selling and buying new gear.