Core app treats metadata files differently than the old n-serve app does

You'd be better off directing this to Naim themselves. 

Pardon the obvious question, but why switch to the Core when you already have a UnitiServe?

Thank you for explaining why the Core mis-sorts.  However, can you tell me how to carry out the correction you've identified please?  Not all my discs are mis-sorted though.  Surely Naim should have looked at this before releasing the Core for sale? 

If the metadata within an albums cddbinfo.txt file (which is created when Unitiserv rips a CD) is correct then there isn't a problem, this is why only *some* of your music is mis-sorted.

But if like me you make lots of metadata corrections or additions via the Unitiserv desktop client (or the n-serve app) then this is where the problems will arise.

As an experiment if you can find an album which isn't displaying correctly on the Core app then browse to that folder and remove *cut and paste it to your desktop in case you want to put it back* the file "cddbinfo.txt"

Now if you give the Core app 2 - 5 minutes to refresh this album should now display correctly or the same as it would in the old n-serve app / the old desktop client.

Now the question is should we simply delete all the files from our music shares or will this cause some other issues in the future???

The better option would be for Naim to have an option that ignores this file if it is present in a folder, I think???

Because I was expecting an Atom this month which now as it's delayed until *may* I'm using the Core as my front end Streamer.

I'm still ripping with my old UnitiServ right now because you can't edit metadata at the moment when ripping with the Core and also I don't trust it just yet.

Cos us is eol?

Not if US is still FFP.

Sure. But there is no software dev work either within us itself or for n-Serve 

As I said in another thread, it's not the new app that is the problem, it's the Core itself. Files stored on the Core but served via the US are fine if you look at them in the Naim app, and I am talking about looking in the list of albums in upnp in a streamer (which Christine can't do yet) not the list of albums showing via the app in the Core "room". The same file served by the Core when viewed in the Naim app in the same way shows all the metadata errors.

best

David

This illustrates issues with all modern components that are in the digital domain ...

* there is the traditional HiFi sound issues determined by electronics etc;

* there are issues with digital networking (at all levels);

*  there are issues with software that must be used to control and access content.

Companies like Naim that come from the 1st area of traditional HiFi may feel somewhat comfortable in the digital networking domain since this is also primarily electroic-based but I have concerns regarding their competence in the software domain. Interesting that publicity of all kinds (web, paper, factory tours, etc) focus on the boxes and explain in detail about components and specs but there is nothing about the software ...

* who is developing it?

* what software dev methodology are they using?

* what is the architecture backplane?

* what usability and accessibility standards are being adopted?

* etc. etc.

Software engineering is a discipline in its own right with many different facets; those into the subject may be interested in some of the technical stuff but all should be interested in the usability and accessibility layers since these are what we all use but there is nothing regarding how these issues are supported in the software development methodology ( or indeed what this methodology is.

I remember from a computer show way back in the 80's a logo from one company that "software makes hardware happen" and this is particularly true in this new digital HiFi world where bad software with bad user accessibility and poor performance may indeed kill what may be an excellent component in terms of its HiFi sound pedigree and performance.

Reading a variety of posts about the new Naim software app has indeed made me very cautious and reminded me that in the software world there is an adage "let early adopters beware" ... lets see where we are in a years time

Allan

Christine posted:

If the metadata within an albums cddbinfo.txt file (which is created when Unitiserv rips a CD) is correct then there isn't a problem, this is why only *some* of your music is mis-sorted.

But if like me you make lots of metadata corrections or additions via the Unitiserv desktop client (or the n-serve app) then this is where the problems will arise.

As an experiment if you can find an album which isn't displaying correctly on the Core app then browse to that folder and remove *cut and paste it to your desktop in case you want to put it back* the file "cddbinfo.txt"

Now if you give the Core app 2 - 5 minutes to refresh this album should now display correctly or the same as it would in the old n-serve app / the old desktop client.

Now the question is should we simply delete all the files from our music shares or will this cause some other issues in the future???

The better option would be for Naim to have an option that ignores this file if it is present in a folder, I think???

Hi,

This is something that is being looked into at the moment - using an existing music store as a music share rather than keeping it as part of the Core's 'store'.

It is expected that any existing music stores would be imported into the core (and therefore copied to the music store that you have set up on the Core itself - whether on its internal drive, a USB drive or a NAS drive) rather than being accessed as a share and in that case the metadata should be correctly parsed.

Best

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Christine posted:

If the metadata within an albums cddbinfo.txt file (which is created when Unitiserv rips a CD) is correct then there isn't a problem, this is why only *some* of your music is mis-sorted.

But if like me you make lots of metadata corrections or additions via the Unitiserv desktop client (or the n-serve app) then this is where the problems will arise.

As an experiment if you can find an album which isn't displaying correctly on the Core app then browse to that folder and remove *cut and paste it to your desktop in case you want to put it back* the file "cddbinfo.txt"

Now if you give the Core app 2 - 5 minutes to refresh this album should now display correctly or the same as it would in the old n-serve app / the old desktop client.

Now the question is should we simply delete all the files from our music shares or will this cause some other issues in the future???

The better option would be for Naim to have an option that ignores this file if it is present in a folder, I think???

Hi,

This is something that is being looked into at the moment - using an existing music store as a music share rather than keeping it as part of the Core's 'store'.

It is expected that any existing music stores would be imported into the core (and therefore copied to the music store that you have set up on the Core itself - whether on its internal drive, a USB drive or a NAS drive) rather than being accessed as a share and in that case the metadata should be correctly parsed.

Best

Phil

I must say that this isn't my experience. I imported my music from my Unitiserve to a HDD in my Core and the metadata, album identities and artwork is all changed in the Core.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

I must say that this isn't my experience. I imported my music from my Unitiserve to a HDD in my Core and the metadata, album identities and artwork is all changed in the Core.

best

David

When importing it will also do a relookup to see if it can get better metadata however on the whole only a very small portion of my music stores have been changed on importing them into the Core...

Phil

The big issue is with classical music sets where CDs get bundled in to all sorts of sets to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries etc. Getting single CD artwork (a string quartet say) replaced by a cover which says "The complete DG Collection of music by Franz Schubert" is not in any way helpful. Or having Schubert's music appearing in two different places: Franz Schubert and Schubert Franz.  Or having the album title as "The Greats" instead of telling you which great it is! I could go on....

best

David

David - yes I echo your comments totally.  This system with the new Core is not workable for classical music.  We must be able to edit the metadata.  My "old" library of downloads is on a separate NAS drive, and I have catalogued or amended all of some 3000 tracks to show correctly.  Searching on the app for the music on the new Core is very difficult if you have multiple different recordings of the same symphony  for example.  Please Naim can you help us..........  The Core and app's cataloguing is, as you say, inconsistent.  For instance music for Sibelius is sometimes under 'S' other times under 'J' (as for Jean Sibelius). 

Have you tried as a test only deleting (but keeping a copy of course) the cddbinfo.txt file from a folder that is incorrectly displaying?

Give your Core 5 mins or so to update it's internal database then see if this particular album then displays the metadata correctly.

Hi Christine, I don't see where to find the cddbinfo.txt file?  Also number of my multi-work sets also get the order of individual tracks mixed up.  I've checked the downloaded files on my external hard drive (from which I copied them to the Core, and the originals display perfectly on my computer screen.  This happens a lot on quite a few sets.

Phil,

OK so this evening I tried to Import all my music from my UnitiServe MQ folder via the new Core App but this in itself causes problems for a couple of reasons;

1.  It took about over an hour to transfer about 30 albums from my catalogue of about 3,000 then my Core crashed so I had pull the mains cable out to reboot as even the front standby button was unresponsive.

2.  The albums it did import had metadata that was just as messed up as it was when pointing directly at the MQ directory as a NAS Share.  For some albums it was even worse as I think it looks up via the internet for fresh / more recent metadata which was then matching with totally incorrect albums.  It looks like this method also ignores the userEdits.xml file, is this correct ?

I think the main point here is that over the past 8 or so years that I've been using my Unitiserv I've had to edit at least some part of the metadata on probably 70% of the CD's I've ripped.  Some CD's I've had to enter in ALL the track metadata as none is found.  I don't see me changing the way I work in the near future and this is why a desktop application is so important to me. 

Even when Core gets the facility to edit metadata I don't relish the thought of having to do this on an iPad pro or similar device compared to using a full sized PC screen with proper keyboard and mouse.  Have you ever tried to cut 'n' paste on a touch screen?

I'm already thinking of purchasing another couple of UnitiServes ready for when my one stops working.

One other question I have an old SSD UnitiServe, can I get a downloads folder? or how can I add music to my database with drag and drop?

JK

Are you ripping your CDs with a Unitiserv ? if yes then in the MQ folder you will have a folder for each artist and then within this a folder for each album.

Within each folder will be the cdbdinfo.txt file

+1 for a desktop application.

The "proprietary" nature of the file format in the MQ folder scared the heck out of me after a while, and I had my uServe convert it all to .flac and then continue to rip new cd's to flac.  I knew the day would come when I needed to "graduate" to a new server, and the .wav format would be a problem.

If not too late, think about doing this.

Guys,

I don't want to come down as heavy handed here but I have already said that this is something that we are aware of and is with the software guys being worked on and if you are going to start suggesting modifying / deleting files which could potentially 'break' indexing on databases of music then this thread will be closed or deleted by the moderators as it now breaks forum rules over advocating modifying products and how they work.

We are aware of the issue and we are working on it.

For anyone else reading this thread DO NOT delete or modify files within a music store structure - this could leave your music store in a state in which it is no longer viable as a music store.

Best,

Phil

Christine posted:

Are you ripping your CDs with a Unitiserv ? if yes then in the MQ folder you will have a folder for each artist and then within this a folder for each album.

Within each folder will be the cdbdinfo.txt file

Hi,

I have tried emailling you but as per my earlier reply can you please contact us directly at Naim, either support@naimaudio.com or phil.harris@naimaudio.com?

Best,

Phil

Christine, while you are trying to sort out the problems of having the Core serving your existing large collection, do yourself a favour and try to

0) pick up 10-30 albums from your large collection and make a small test-collection.

1) Convert your test-collection to .flac.

2) Use Ex Falso to tag your test-collection the way that fits your needs.

3) Use MinimServer (http://minimserver.com/features.html#Discover) to serve your test-collection.

Manually tagging your whole collection would certainly be tedious and time-consuming. But -- unless you do not care so much about the way you search and browse your collection or unless your collection mainly consists of pop and rock music -- hardly avoidable, I believ. I would never use a device/software that edits my metadata without my consent.  And I would not use the Core for any data editing purpose at this stage.

NBPF thank you for your suggestions, I'll take a look at Ex-Falso later today but the old Naim Desktop Client works brilliantly for me.

Luckily I've now managed to get my Core working correctly and my Metadata and Albums are now showing perfectly in the new Core app.

Unfortunately I can't tell you how I did this because this thread may get deleted, please see post above from Phil Harris.

I just need to report back now to Naim now on the little bugs in the new app and some suggestions which will make it work more efficiently.