NDX DSD Streaming abilities

I very much doubt DSD is the format to come - my view its an also ran - it has a few die hard fans but appears to have really failed to take off. It  has in my opinion certain technical issues with it as well  as some advantages. It can sound good - but I suspect that is more often due to the recording quality and how it is mastered rather than any intrinsic quality from the encoding technique itself.

I agree with Simon,  DSD has an excellent SQ but maybe thats more to do with the recording process & the care/mission/intent/ethos of the recording cmpy & artist.  It has a few challenges in the recording stage compared to PCM & in most cases the recording company use PCM for some of that process.     That said I will choose DSD albums over PCM if a choice exists.  

Taking the technical benefits/deficits aside, the bigger issue here is how available the format is and playable in the home. DSD's poularity varies quite a bit in different countries in terms of simply wanting the tech and DSD capable devices being popular but it doesn't change low amount of meterial (though you want to actually buy) available.

Then assume you build a collection of material of DSD audio. If you have a few systems in the house, there is a high chance that not all rooms will be DSD capable without further cash outlay. For example, NDX, NDS, etc can handle DSD to PCM transcoding, but your room with a UQ2 or ND5xs will be out of luck. That is not realistic proposition for most people. I suppose if you are used to having a vinyl collection that can only be played in one location it might not seem like an issue, but for a new format to present a similar problem is non starter.

As for the standard to come, bear in mind that DSD has been with us for decades. It is the format used for SACD. If it was going to make traction it should have done so by now. Sony seem to put a huge amount of marketing budget behind DSD but the ship has really sailed on on this and no one got on board.

DSD = dead weight

DSD must be very good, almost double as good as 24 bit pcm. At least it is often priced to be, or overpriced.

Claus

As reported before and if of any interest on this thread, I clearly preferred PCM over DSD offered by NDS update 4.3 on Podger's L'Estro Armonico. The PCM version downloaded in 24/192 from Qobuz has more PRaT, a bit more forward presentation with more relief and denser timbres. I found the DSD64 verion downloaded from Channels Classics less edgy, and a bit more transparent in the lower spectrum.   

Chag -

Bear in mind that DSD in Naim units is acheived by transciding DSD to PCM. Some Naim units like the NDX have DACs that support native DSD, while others like the NDS don't. Of course, even doing direct DSD is off the cards because it cannot go through Naim's DSP algorithm as DSD. 

The addition of DSD is more about providing functionality.

FZ, my NDS plays native DSD (DSF files) just fine without having to serve them as DoP.

sjbabbey posted:

FZ, my NDS plays native DSD (DSF files) just fine without having to serve them as DoP.

That is not what I am saying. Internally all Naim DSD capapable devices transcodes them in the SHARC to PCM, perform DSP and then pass off to the DAC. The DAC never see DSD.

In the NDS's case, the internal DAC chips don't support DSD anyway. In the case of NDX, it does support DSD but as I mentioned, the approach is to use the SHARC to trancode to PCM and then treat as a normal PCM stream from there.

Hello,

Unhappily I have to confirm that the NDX is outdated concerning it's DSD64 Rendering at least for my Setup. For convenience I digitalize my Records (Garrard401, SME V, Superline, Supercap then directly to Tascam DA-3000) in DSD128 as its best format. As I am not able to play them directly with my NDX, I convert them with AudioGate. When the DSD Feature was added, I tried 3 conversions.

24 /192... With clearly the best sound rendered by NDX-NAC252 compared to record

24/96 and DSD64 were extremely close in sound quality.... 

So the DSD64 is only as good as 24/96 for me... And I continue to convert the DSD128 to 24/192 waiting for Naim to support native DSD128.

Still I can recommend the  NDX.... Its usage is easy, sound quality is really good. I did not yet find a better Streamer in this price range supporting DSD128. The Tascam DA sounds dull when rendering its own AD files.

I find it amusing that you guys are discussing NDX & DSD replay like this,  it plays DSD64, so lets just enjoy.  In math terms DSD is something between 24/96 & 24/192 & 24/192 is as good as it gets at the moment,  but this is not about math, its about your own human perception with your own Mk-II ears connected to your CPU.   In sound terms opinions vary on how it sounds,  maybe its the way its recorded thats important & not so much the end user format is in DSD, maybe its other way round.  It seems opinions vary & not all can agree but why not just accept it the way it is & enjoy the journey.    I have my own opinions & I really enjoy DSD,  but some recordings I appreciate as DSD more than others.  To me the simple acoustic small ensembles are better suited to DSD,  large orchestra's while still good are probably better in PCM & truth is they are invariably recorded in that medium.  Bottom line is Naim ND series play DSD64 so lets just enjoy - I fear all the market indicators are that DSD might not have a long term future.

and further to an earlier reference there appears to be a common misunderstanding, DoP is pure DSD - there is no conversion to PCM or anything else  - its simply a way of sending a DSD bit stream using  standard data protocols that have been designed to carry other codecs

S

Hello Mike, you are correct that we should enjoy listening to music. In One point you did forget something: Pre 1980ties Records were not recorded digitally at all and some Japanese sound Equipment Providers provide DSD as recording native format...Like my TEAC/Tascam.Definitely that is a minority....But high resolution is anyway.

I'm not sure the point you are making Chambermusic  .........  but to add to your comments, don't forget some CD players are bit-stream,  like DSD,  & in the day there were long debates about the pros & cons of that.   Re: all analogue vinyl recording & processing, personally did not hear much worth talking about with that.  The same with CD, back in the day we had debates over DDD vs AAD vs ADD.  The only thing I would say about that is the analogue tape noise,  I have 24-bit Remasters of 1960/70's folk-rock classics & its easy to hear the tape.   But like the DSD vs PCM debate,  too much time talking  & not enough time spent enjoying the music.