Rega RP6 with a Clarify arm. help with setup.

Ermmmm - this is a Naim forum, not a Rega one

From memory... you cannot set antiskating on RP6 by feel - you actually need a blank, setup LP. Forget the guidelines in the manual - they don't work.

if Naim made a turntable i'd probably have one or at least want one and not be able to afford one.

I assume you have the manual if I can find it by googling " clearaudio clarify tonearm" it's not hard to find.

Is the turntable level, do this first.

Is the cartridge aligned, you can download some protractors fron "vinyl engine", use Rega's or shell out for a Feickart, which alignment have you gone for? Looking at the arm it's hard to know where the pivot is but if it's higher than the centre of gravity the measured tracking force will be greater the higher the stylus is when measured, easy to check by comparing the measured force with the gauge on the platter with and without the mat (or a surplus record ) The manual says to measure it at record surface height and gives a couple of no doubt expensive gauges you can use. Assuming you don't have one of these and are measuring on a gauge around 5mm thick your 2.8g is probably nearer 2.2 g at the record anyway, just like an Aro. Use the force gauge to return to stop getting lost but use your ears to set the force. Have you set azimuth? if not do this now (read the 'manual) but assuming you have and VTA is reasonable (arm parallel to the racord surface) tracking force is your next variable, this can take weeks doing it by ear (I have an Aro) but you can get close fairly quickly so try 0.1g (on the gauge at whatever height) either side of where you are now and listen to a few records. Which ever you prefer will be closer to your target so try beyound it until you home in on a sound that can't be improved. Not sure why Clearaudio say not to adjust antiskate, the manual tells you how to do it and reccomends a test record  (when I had a rega arm I used one  one called "enjoyment of stereo" which is sometimes to be found in charity shops, the Aro only has 5 options so you can pick the best by ear) .

Try cuing by hand without using the arm lift, (Aro style)  use the plinth to steady your hand.

av in bc,

From what I can read from your OP, you've taken a $1500 deck, had a $1600 arm installed by a local "artisan" (who didn't really set it up), and also installed a $1200 cart with a third-party subplatter. Now it doesn't track properly and you're seeking advice on the Naim forum? I'd say you've got a loose wallet and you should check the definition of artisan.

Very, very true whay Joe wrote. Regas are not ment for tweaking - they just work straight from the box. 

RP6 is a wonderful deck, especially when it comes with a factory-fitted Exact II cartridge. Why ruin it with upgrades that don't work is beyond me.

If one wants more out of Rega, one should look for a higher model, RP10 with Aphelion being the current pinacle.

av in bc posted:

 

if Naim made a turntable i'd probably have one or at least want one and not be able to afford one.

 

 

 

 

It's called Linn LP12 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Very, very true whay Joe wrote. Regas are not ment for tweaking - they just work straight from the box. 

RP6 is a wonderful deck, especially when it comes with a factory-fitted Exact II cartridge. Why ruin it with upgrades that don't work is beyond me.

I agree,  except for one item;  the arm wiring on Rega sucks,  dodgy earthing arrangement,  solder joints & very basic wire.   I changed mine to the Incognito harness,  this has each of the 4 wires in unjointed run from cart tags to the phono plugs.  The wire is 33AWG Cardas quality copper Litz.  At the arm pillar the internal arm wire enters a brass fitting that together with the screened cables to the phono plugs forms a Faraday Cage.  This is star earthed at arm pillar fitting with a separate earth wire that is connected to the phono or pre-amp case (earth)     It was a real SQ improvement on my old Rega Planar with RB300, I understand from a friend its even better on the higher end arms.

I have no idea about Rega TT's but I do know something about Clearaudio arms and cartridges. The Clarify (which i owned) is "full magnetic bearing" across both vertical and horizontal dimensions which makes it very sensitive in the setup . You should be careful with the VTF and follow the Clearaudio recommendations. Most CA V2 cartridges track at 2.8 but the Maestro is set up for 2.2; now what makes a big difference is with what you measure VTF. I have found the "trampoline" that Clearaudio provides gives different values from electric gauges - even from the Cleauraudio one! and in general i trust the mechanical trampoline. I would look at VTF first.

yes Mike the wiring of the clarify was one of the reasons i got it.

thanks yeti for the great info, it's the first time i've upgraded the turntable where a dealer wasn't involved so i am on my own.

the gentleman who was kind enough to help me (for free) mount the arm is a true genius.he builds turntables from scratch complete with homemade arms that defy logic and are works of art worth many many thousands, is known the world over for his engineering and artistry. he spent 4 hours carefully filling an opening in the table to fit the arm. the hole looked like he laser cut it. the only reason he didn't "set it up" is because i didn't want to use anymore of his precious time and his kindness. so i looked up the definition of artisan and John fits it perfectly.

i sought advice on a naim forum because i thought that people came here so seek advice and discuss hifi. a rega is not a naim piece but i've seen thousands of posts and discussions about cables and speakers and turntables and racks and other things that aren't naim and since this is the only gear i have that isn't naim then i hope i am in good standing after 10 years on this site. i've seen discussions of carpets and curtains and chairs, surely an rp6 is a worthy discussion.

the turntable sounds like an absolute monster now, the arm especially has completely transformed a fairly average rega into an amazing device, until you hear it maybe don't judge it. i'm only having a minor issue that is probably due to how sensitive to vibrations the arm is (which is a good thing) and hopefully i will keep tweaking the setup until it sounds its best. as for my wallet i only paid 600$ for the cart, brand new never used and 500$ for the arm still mint. my whole system cost less than what some spend a speaker wire.

the rp6 is not a holy relic and believe or not can be improved, most things can.

Fwiw,my lp-12 and every other tt i've owned do the same thing,if I'm not very careful when putting the tonearm down. I (think) years ago, I was told that there are (sort of) 2 lead-in grooves and only one is "correct". Anyway,when I put it down carefully at the start of the actual recording- no problem. Once you see the right spot and place the needle at the same point each time ,no bounce at the start. Also I'm sure that my tt is set up properly,although it is about time for new cart. and perhaps a few up-grades

Does the problem occur when the needle is dropped with the cueing device, by hand or both.

Do you have photo of the set up.

i can't or won't cue by hand, too shaky and frankly too afraid to ruin a record. if i keep a hand on the cue lever and don't let it drop then it tends to be fine. the arm doesn't drop very fast at all, slower than with the 303 but still a bit jumpy sometimes. warps don't help much either, thankfully i don't have many (except this Lumpy Gravy!).

DrPo posted:

I have no idea about Rega TT's but I do know something about Clearaudio arms and cartridges. The Clarify (which i owned) is "full magnetic bearing" across both vertical and horizontal dimensions which makes it very sensitive in the setup . You should be careful with the VTF and follow the Clearaudio recommendations. Most CA V2 cartridges track at 2.8 but the Maestro is set up for 2.2; now what makes a big difference is with what you measure VTF. I have found the "trampoline" that Clearaudio provides gives different values from electric gauges - even from the Cleauraudio one! and in general i trust the mechanical trampoline. I would look at VTF first.

what is a "trampoline"? if it's a scale, i have a digital one.

the tracking force is now set at 2.2g and if i carefully drop the arm, it tracks fine. i'm also told by the Plurison rep (who was unbelievably helpful and knowledgeable) that the height of the gap in the top magnet is very important and needs to be  straight. mine is ok but could be a bit straighter, bit lower on the right as the picture indicates. could be a VTA adjustment. i don't know for sure.

I don't really understand the need to build this Frankenstein table. It seems the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  The Rega and Clearaudio parts are highly engineered to work well within the context of their own systems, but I would never think to pair one with the other. 

Do you have prior experience setting up a turntable and mounting a cartridge?  The geometry looks very strange in the pictures shot from above. What protractor/geometry are you using?  The counterweight is also seems to be sitting a little far back on the arm.

MarkMcK79 posted:

I don't really understand the need to build this Frankenstein table. It seems the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  The Rega and Clearaudio parts are highly engineered to work well within the context of their own systems, but I would never think to pair one with the other. 

Do you have prior experience setting up a turntable and mounting a cartridge?  The geometry looks very strange in the pictures shot from above. What protractor/geometry are you using?  The counterweight is also seems to be sitting a little far back on the arm.

Clearfrankenrega

I run my Aro on a Townshend Rock, Max (Townshend) doesn't approve, I don't care. Regas are hardly sacred (or rare) and if resale value is unimportant... It will be an education.

Is there a way to adjust the magnet gap, I'd guess the antiskate is done by twisting the anchor lines.

Is your artisan called Jean?

 Perhaps the 2.8g setting is causing the cartridge to hit the record faster, with more force causing it to bounce.

 The counterweight is a long way from the pivot, it looks seesaw like.

 I’d second Benjy’s suggestion, you can’t be too careful when lowering the cartridge.

MarkMcK79 posted:

I don't really understand the need to build this Frankenstein table. It seems the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  The Rega and Clearaudio parts are highly engineered to work well within the context of their own systems, but I would never think to pair one with the other. 

Do you have prior experience setting up a turntable and mounting a cartridge?  The geometry looks very strange in the pictures shot from above. What protractor/geometry are you using?  The counterweight is also seems to be sitting a little far back on the arm.

It seems to me that the LTE reaches 0° at no point.

Jumping and skipping is oftenly caused by resonance frequency out of the range (8 to 12 Hz).

No problem with the geometry....both rega arms and the clarify are 222MM spindle to pivot so it's a perfect match if you like the sound. 

sounds like a VTF/VTA/anti skate assuming (1) that you got the cart perfect aligned and (2) that the arm is not damaged. I once bought a new arm (not a Clear audio...) and suffer exactly what you describe. I went crazy with alignment and then gave up and sent the arm back. The factory said the bearings was not good and replaced it.  It since then works perfect. 

As well, Until I bought the Dr Feickert Analogue Alignment Protractor (it's not chip) I couldn't really align my rp9 with rb1000 really well.  

shahar posted:

No problem with the geometry....both rega arms and the clarify are 222MM spindle to pivot so it's a perfect match if you like the sound. 

The headshell has an adjustment range of nearly 3/4", thats a long way for possible misadjustments.

shahar posted:

No problem with the geometry....both rega arms and the clarify are 222MM spindle to pivot so it's a perfect match if you like the sound. 

sounds like a VTF/VTA/anti skate assuming (1) that you got the cart perfect aligned and (2) that the arm is not damaged. I once bought a new arm (not a Clear audio...) and suffer exactly what you describe. I went crazy with alignment and then gave up and sent the arm back. The factory said the bearings was not good and replaced it.  It since then works perfect. 

As well, Until I bought the Dr Feickert Analogue Alignment Protractor (it's not chip) I couldn't really align my rp9 with rb1000 really well.  

 

i used the protract from clearaudio to line it up so it is sitting where it should be. azimuth alignment is also as good as i could get it. although that is an eyeball at best but it looks nice and straight. i will do a double check to make sure though, especially the VTA. yeah there is always that chance that something may be not be working right, i pray it is. i'll se

yeti42 posted:

I run my Aro on a Townshend Rock, Max (Townshend) doesn't approve, I don't care. Regas are hardly sacred (or rare) and if resale value is unimportant... It will be an education.

Is there a way to adjust the magnet gap, I'd guess the antiskate is done by twisting the anchor lines.

Is your artisan called Jean?

 

e if i can borrow another scale to make sure the weight is correct and my scale isn't misreading. the dr's protractor is a beauty, wish i could rent one.

MarkMcK79 posted:

I don't really understand the need to build this Frankenstein table. It seems the whole is less than the sum of the parts.  The Rega and Clearaudio parts are highly engineered to work well within the context of their own systems, but I would never think to pair one with the other. 

Do you have prior experience setting up a turntable and mounting a cartridge?  The geometry looks very strange in the pictures shot from above. What protractor/geometry are you using?  The counterweight is also seems to be sitting a little far back on the arm.

thousands have done changes to their lp12's and other pieces of gear. this arm is a very good arm, very well engineered and frankly wipes the floor with the 303, it's not even close. maybe the clarify is over the top for a 6, true, but when you can't afford to buy new from the dealer, you have to get what's available used. an arm is an arm, as long as it fits they are designed to do exactly the same thing, the clearaudio is just better at it. well that's why i'm here, because i'm not an expert as mentioned but you know, i can learn and from what i've seen even so called experts don't always do a great job. setting up a turntable is not an easy thing to do but yes i've done it a few times with decent/terrible results and i've had it done by others with terrible/decent results so i don't know.

yeti42 posted:

I run my Aro on a Townshend Rock, Max (Townshend) doesn't approve, I don't care. Regas are hardly sacred (or rare) and if resale value is unimportant... It will be an education.

Is there a way to adjust the magnet gap, I'd guess the antiskate is done by twisting the anchor lines.

Is your artisan called Jean?

 

not sure about the gap adjustment, i think it's the antiskating and VTA. i asked but didn't get a completely straight answer. as for resale i think a lot of value has been added but of course no one makes money doing this and i did ok selling the old cart and arm so not out of pocket much in the end. might make it harder to sell but it might entice someone since the upgrade is so dramatic. not planning on selling this for a long time though.

Mike-B posted:

the arm wiring on Rega sucks,  dodgy earthing arrangement,  solder joints & very basic wire.   I changed mine to the Incognito harness,  this has each of the 4 wires in unjointed run from cart tags to the phono plugs.  The wire is 33AWG Cardas quality copper Litz. It was a real SQ improvement on my old Rega Planar with RB300,

I had a similar arm re-wiring done on my RP6 with its RB303 arm. OFC Cardas AWG 33 Litz wire and Cardas gold plated on brass cartridge tags.

I didn't notice an appreciable difference in overall SQ (give and take on the tonal balance), but the exposed wires at the cart end are far more durable and the tags much easier to attach and remove during cart changes versus Rega's originals. The "upgrade" is a more reliable wiring system for those that want to experiment with different carts.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ermmmm - this is a Naim forum, not a Rega one

 

but you're not the moderator.....

I think its great that Naim allow a very free Forum in which we can ask questions and discuss common ground

sjw posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ermmmm - this is a Naim forum, not a Rega one

 

but you're not the moderator.....

I think its great that Naim allow a very free Forum in which we can ask questions and discuss common ground

Thank you for your very pointed response. It's always refreshing to see things taken out of context...
And that is why I have offered my help in the same reply. 

you were no help at all.