Naim and Sonus Faber speakers

A friend owned the Wilson Sashas and I have listened to them couple of times (more than 5 years ago). One thing I like about the Sashas is they don't sound like typical high-end speakers with razor-sharp detail and piercing highs. They have a smooth and nicely detailed sound. When I visited him about 4 years ago, the Sashas were gone, replaced by the top-of-the-line Wilson speaker which looked very imposing with its 6 feet stature. Looks a bit like Star Wars.

I noticed on Audiogon that there are few Naim users who are using Wilson speakers. The Wilsons are said to be an easy load for most amplifiers which is a good thing. Not too sure how the Wilson compare to the Focals though.

ryder. posted:

A friend owned the Wilson Sashas and I have listened to them couple of times (more than 5 years ago). One thing I like about the Sashas is they don't sound like typical high-end speakers with razor-sharp detail and piercing highs. They have a smooth and nicely detailed sound. When I visited him about 4 years ago, the Sashas were gone, replaced by the top-of-the-line Wilson speaker which looked very imposing with its 6 feet stature. Looks a bit like Star Wars.

I noticed on Audiogon that there are few Naim users who are using Wilson speakers. The Wilsons are said to be an easy load for most amplifiers which is a good thing. Not too sure how the Wilson compare to the Focals though.

 

Remember, lack of power is Naim's Achilles heel!

250-80 watts

300-90 watts

500-140 watts

I know they are said to be an easy load, but I would Imagine, there low end speakers:

Sabrina, starting at 13K - 30K USD, range would mimic their house sound, driven with a bit more power than Naim.

That being said, I would love to hear the 109K Alexx paired with 1 HP (700 watts) of Statement!

• Alexandria XLF
• Alexandria X-2 Series 2
• MAXX Series 3
• Alexx
• Alexia
• Polaris
• Sasha W/P
• Mezzo
• Sophia Series 3
• Duette

Allante93!

This room was hot off the presses. Both the Wilson Audio Alexx speakers & Dan D ’Agostino Progression Mono’s had been finished at the factory just days’ prior for this stellar event.

I Did have an opportunity to hear them in Ann Arbor MI, last year.

Wow!  Nice Seminar, and the Spread was to die for!

Fit for a King, Come to think of it, for the most part, a lot of old farts, like myself! LOL... 

The only difference, they had Loot!

Allante93!

Speakers need current which NAP 200 and 250 can supply down to 2 Ohms, I'm not sure how other manufacturers calculate watts. What is a watt anyway? Nap 200 and onwards are rated in terms of transient power VA.

It's a bit like comparing a Bentley to a Porsche.

Naim amps are optimised for other performance criteria, the ones that matter for musical engagement, it's about the rhythmic ability.

I don't agree that power is Naim weakness. I've heard my NAP 250 DR drive the mighty Sonus Faber Stradivari, and the big Dynaudio C2 speakers.

About loot, well.... you don't need loot to achieve musical engagement. 

Muso QB and Muso are very good products. 

analogmusic posted:

Speakers need current which NAP 200 and 250 can supply down to 2 Ohms, I'm not sure how other manufacturers calculate watts. What is a watt anyway?  Nap 200 and onwards are rated in terms of transient power VA.

It's a bit like comparing a Bentley to a Porsche. No a Bentley to a Volkswagen! 

Now Compare Nap 500 to D, Agostino Mono Blocks!

Price & Power Output 

 

Statement:

Power Output

746W into 8 ohms, 1450W into 4 ohms, 9kW burst power into 1 ohm

Mono Blocks ~ 90K USD  270K Statement! 

Not for lower scums, like myself! 

My house is valued at 150K! 

Nap 500:

Now If I hit the lotto, I could get one of these 2nd hand! 

Power Output

140W/channel, 8Ω

The Statement is always presented with High end Speakers, didn’t sound bad with the Cheap 40K G3’s, I was impressed with those ugly speakers! 

Now the 109K Alexx, Heck of a Speaker! 

Now the cheap Amp that was presented with Alexx, Mono Blocks:

Dan D’Agostino Momentum Monoblock Amplifier Costs $42,000 Per Pair!

Wonder what the power output is in Watts per 8 ohms?

The Momentum monoblock amplifier is small — smaller than some might expect. It’s only 4-inches high. And yet, D’Agostino managed to make sure that the amp projects 300 real world watts into 8 Ohms. It doubles into 4, and then again into 2 Ohms at 1,200 Watts! 

That’s All I’m say Analog!

But I do Agree, Naims does a pretty good job in their Middle of the road products, that's why we are on the Forum! 

My 250.2   was having problems bi-amping my bricks, had the 200 handling the tweeters, and the 250.2 handling the Woofer and Midrange. 

Couldn’t handle it, shut down! 

I switched, put the 200 on the Woofers and mids, No Problem! 

Not being a regulated amp, it slipped on the job, but didn’t shut down! Just didn’t perform as well! 

When one has the Bucks, That’s the Naim of the Game, Performance! 

Now 3 of the out dated 250.2’s , Tri- Amping my Barbariks, No Problem, Singing this very moment! 

In Conclusion, High End Companies are trying to make a Statement with their Reference Gear, so Scums like myself will partake in their middle of the road products, Like the Trickled down technology passed down to your beautiful Nap 250 DR! 

Seen one Listed the other day for 4K, wow!!!!!!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

...Scums like myself...

Hey, you're better than that.

C.

Allante93

i can't afford statement either but compromised  by having a speaker that a single nap 250 can easily drive....

cheer up buddy. 

passive speakers are sometimes pretty good 

Christopher_M posted:

Allante93 posted:

...Scums like myself...

Hey, you're better than that.

C.

I knoooow! ��

Allante

I'm afraid you fell into the classic money trap of building your system around the speaker

I never heard briks, and maybe it's a hell of a speaker. but if it manages to shut down a Nap 250.... I wouldn't want it.

Lose the speaker, and get another one  (Naim ovators, Focal electra BE 1028 (WOW! Amazing!) , Dynaudio X34 or Focus 260, Kudos X3 or S20, Sonus Faber Olympica or Vener S.) , no need for any further upgrades or money related stress.

You hold the key !

Remember we talked about this long time ago !

What will you do...? !

Frequency extremes can be compromised with, as long as engagement is there. 

It is not required to have bass down to 20 HZ to enjoy the music !

Muso is amazing !

analogmusic posted:

It is not required to have bass down to 20 HZ to enjoy the music !

If AllanTe93 is listening all day to organ music or the double base, it does perfectly make sense to have the Briks. There are not much speakers around having the reputation of a good bass like the Briks.

They are on my list to audition them somewhere when I have time.

I for one don't find much musical engagement from Muso - it is better than a cheap transistor radio, in fact surprisingly good for its size, but it simply doesn't do proper bass, and for some of us bass when it is supposed to be there is a significant part ofthe music. Why would anyone want to compromise my enjoyment with a speaker incapable of performing, if they can possibly manage not to? Of course most music doesn't go down to 20Hz, but it is not infrequent for music to go down well below 40 - and just hearing the harmonics doesn't cut the mustard. However, it may depend on the music you listen to, and undoubtedly does depend on what with music makes you tick -and I am well aware that there are other people not bothered about hearing/feeling the bass, and still others who positively don't like it!

But active driving of speakers, Briks or otherwise, isn't specifically about bass, but about control - direct coupling of amps to drivers without capacitors or inductors in or across the high current path filtering the sound, with associated side effects like phase effects etc, while limiting the bandwidth the power side of the amp has to handle (though I have no idea if the latter is actually significant)

analogmusic posted:

Ok so to follow up, I got a chance to hear the Sopra 3, and focal electra 1028Be with Devialet electronics from our Naim dealer in Abu Dhabi. (I was short on time, so next time I will definitely try with Naim)

I am quite impressed with the sound, the electra 1028 having punchy bass way beyond expectations from the cabinet size, and also having very good clarity, also good pace and rhythm. Both speakers are highly engaging to listen to. I suppose it only will get better with a Naim amp (I am biased towards naim)

Sopra 3 also very impressive. The ability of both speakers to create a big soundstage with good depth is very impressive. 

Both speakers are extremely well finished.

I need to hear them with Naim electronics, but so far so good. I am impressed.

Anyone looking for speakers with Naim electronics or (indeed other like Devialet) really must audition Focal speakers.

Hi AM 

I traded out of my Focal Diablos 2 years ago for SF Olympica III - never looked back with my NDX, XPS2 on an NDAC  through NAC 252, NAP 300, mainly wired by Vertere and powerlines throughout. Previously had SF  Cremona floorstanders but with a much reduced input so less impressive. Am based in Dubai right now but moving to Abu in 2 weeks so if you want a real life audition you can catch it before 24 Feb in Dubai or after 27 Feb in Abu.  In my view, NAIM deserves SF but I know there are different opinions!! Personally I would a jump to the next SF level without hesitation. 

PS we share the same dealer.

George

analogmusic posted:

Allante

 

I'm afraid you fell into the classic money trap of building your system around the speaker

I never heard briks, and maybe it's a hell of a speaker. but if it manages to shut down a Nap 250.... I wouldn't want it.

Lose the speaker, and get another one  (Naim ovators, Focal electra BE 1028 (WOW! Amazing!) , Dynaudio X34 or Focus 260, Kudos X3 or S20, Sonus Faber Olympica or Vener S.) , no need for any further upgrades or money related stress.

You hold the key !

Remember we talked about this long time ago !

What will you do...? !

Frequency extremes can be compromised with, as long as engagement is there. 

It is not required to have bass down to 20 HZ to enjoy the music !

Muso is amazing !

The Briks were designed to work with the original CB 250 - shouldn't be a problem. When I had that combo it did a lot of things extremely well - but like all speakers it had its weaknesses.

ps. my Bricks always worked particularly well with organ music and even with a 250 there was very realistic bass (electric or acoustic) and a satisfying slam from the bass drum.

analogmusic posted:

Ok so to follow up, I got a chance to hear the Sopra 3, and focal electra 1028Be with Devialet electronics from our Naim dealer in Abu Dhabi. (I was short on time, so next time I will definitely try with Naim)

I am quite impressed with the sound, the electra 1028 having punchy bass way beyond expectations from the cabinet size, and also having very good clarity, also good pace and rhythm. Both speakers are highly engaging to listen to. I suppose it only will get better with a Naim amp (I am biased towards naim)

Sopra 3 also very impressive. The ability of both speakers to create a big soundstage with good depth is very impressive. 

Both speakers are extremely well finished.

I need to hear them with Naim electronics, but so far so good. I am impressed.

Anyone looking for speakers with Naim electronics or (indeed other like Devialet) really must audition Focal speakers.

The 1028 be's give a good account of themselves in large dealer demo rooms but home demo is essential.  The problem in the UK starts when one gets them back to one's house - if it's a typical family house the size and shape of the reception rooms tend to present a problem to rear ported speakers like the Focals. In my room (with a 52/Sc/250 set up) the bass was uncontrollable.

I use 15 years old SF Concerto Home with SU via TQ UB. Comparison of  old Concertos with today's similarly priced SF Venere 2.0 is not possible. These speakers are from different worlds. I don't  want to insult Veneres, but they have no heart, no soul, no charm, no enthusiasm. They are (maybe) flawless technically, but they are dead musically.

PS: Concertos need very careful pairing with stands and very careful positioning to disclose their grace.

bluedog posted:

analogmusic posted:

Allante

I'm afraid you fell into the classic money trap of building your system around the speaker

I never heard briks, and maybe it's a hell of a speaker. .......................

..........Muso is amazing !

The Briks were designed to work with the original CB 250 - shouldn't be a problem. When I had that combo it did a lot of things extremely well - but like all speakers it had its weaknesses.

I haven't heard the Muso either!

I remember when I joined the Forum, A nice gentleman gave me a warm welcome, and shared his pass experiences with me.

Funny how time flies, but this gentleman ran Active Briks--+ 552/3 x 500--+CD555, I think!

But he shared his gorgeous System with the Forum, but as you have pointed out, all Speakers have their weakness!

I think this gentleman has moved on:

CD555--+S1--+ 3 x 500DR--+ Ovator Active 800's

And Of course, the Full Loom!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

Allante93!

Crofta posted:

I use 15 years old SF Concerto Home with SU via TQ UB. Comparison of  old Concertos with today's similarly priced SF Venere 2.0 is not possible. These speakers are from different worlds. I don't  want to insult Veneres, but they have no heart, no soul, no charm, no enthusiasm. They are (maybe) flawless technically, but they are dead musically.

PS: Concertos need very careful pairing with stands and very careful positioning to disclose their grace.

Wow! I actually thought it was April 1st!

I own the Venere 2.0. They are anything but dead and heartless. Quite the contrary, they are more vibrant and boogie more than the traditional sounding, more laid back Sonus Fabers. 

I power them with a Naim Nait 5i V2. A great match. I tried them on my brother's Rega Elex-R. The sound was too lively and enthusiastic. My brother instead bought Sonus Faber Toy Towers. They are more laid back and sound great with his Rega Elex-R.

There might have been something wrong with the pair you heard. 

Daniel H. posted:

Crofta posted:

I use 15 years old SF Concerto Home with SU via TQ UB. Comparison of  old Concertos with today's similarly priced SF Venere 2.0 is not possible. These speakers are from different worlds. I don't  want to insult Veneres, but they have no heart, no soul, no charm, no enthusiasm. They are (maybe) flawless technically, but they are dead musically.

PS: Concertos need very careful pairing with stands and very careful positioning to disclose their grace.

Wow! I actually thought it was April 1st!

I own the Venere 2.0. They are anything but dead and heartless. Quite the contrary, they are more vibrant and boogie more than the traditional sounding, more laid back Sonus Fabers. 

I power them with a Naim Nait 5i V2. A great match. I tried them on my brother's Rega Elex-R. The sound was too lively and enthusiastic. My brother instead bought Sonus Faber Toy Towers. They are more laid back and sound great with his Rega Elex-R.

There might have been something wrong with the pair you heard. 

I auditioned V2.0 with CA Azur amp in SF distributor studio around two or three years ago, and I was really dissapointed. I don't want to insult V2, Toy, or even Chameleon, but ............. It seems to me that SF survive based on Franco Serblin heritage and grow away from the one more and more at the same time. Well, it is the forum purpose to share different opinions and impressions, isn't it .)) ?

Crofta posted:

Daniel H. posted:

Crofta posted:

I use 15 years old SF Concerto Home with SU via TQ UB. Comparison of  old Concertos with today's similarly priced SF Venere 2.0 is not possible. These speakers are from different worlds. I don't  want to insult Veneres, but they have no heart, no soul, no charm, no enthusiasm. They are (maybe) flawless technically, but they are dead musically.

PS: Concertos need very careful pairing with stands and very careful positioning to disclose their grace.

Wow! I actually thought it was April 1st!

I own the Venere 2.0. They are anything but dead and heartless. Quite the contrary, they are more vibrant and boogie more than the traditional sounding, more laid back Sonus Fabers. 

I power them with a Naim Nait 5i V2. A great match. I tried them on my brother's Rega Elex-R. The sound was too lively and enthusiastic. My brother instead bought Sonus Faber Toy Towers. They are more laid back and sound great with his Rega Elex-R.

There might have been something wrong with the pair you heard. 

I auditioned V2.0 with CA Azur amp in SF distributor studio around two or three years ago, and I was really dissapointed. I don't want to insult V2, Toy, or even Chameleon, but ............. It seems to me that SF survive based on Franco Serblin heritage and grow away from the one more and more at the same time. Well, it is the forum purpose to share different opinions and impressions, isn't it .)) ?

 

 

I see. I had assumed you had heard the Venere with Naim amplification. It is quite possible, that the Cambridge Audio amplifier was not able to drive the Venere adequately. I blame the Cambridge audio amp!  ;-)

Of course we can share different impressions. It is quite alright if you don't like the Venere. Everyone has different tastes. It is just that your description of the Venere surprised me.

Daniel H. posted:

Crofta posted:

Daniel H. posted:

Crofta posted:

I use 15 years old SF Concerto Home with SU via TQ UB. Comparison of  old Concertos with today's similarly priced SF Venere 2.0 is not possible. These speakers are from different worlds. I don't  want to insult Veneres, but they have no heart, no soul, no charm, no enthusiasm. They are (maybe) flawless technically, but they are dead musically.

PS: Concertos need very careful pairing with stands and very careful positioning to disclose their grace.

Wow! I actually thought it was April 1st!

I own the Venere 2.0. They are anything but dead and heartless. Quite the contrary, they are more vibrant and boogie more than the traditional sounding, more laid back Sonus Fabers. 

I power them with a Naim Nait 5i V2. A great match. I tried them on my brother's Rega Elex-R. The sound was too lively and enthusiastic. My brother instead bought Sonus Faber Toy Towers. They are more laid back and sound great with his Rega Elex-R.

There might have been something wrong with the pair you heard. 

I auditioned V2.0 with CA Azur amp in SF distributor studio around two or three years ago, and I was really dissapointed. I don't want to insult V2, Toy, or even Chameleon, but ............. It seems to me that SF survive based on Franco Serblin heritage and grow away from the one more and more at the same time. Well, it is the forum purpose to share different opinions and impressions, isn't it .)) ?

 

 

I see. I had assumed you had heard the Venere with Naim amplification. It is quite possible, that the Cambridge Audio amplifier was not able to drive the Venere adequately. I blame the Cambridge audio amp!  ;-)

Of course we can share different impressions. It is quite alright if you don't like the Venere. Everyone has different tastes. It is just that your description of the Venere surprised me.

Yes, maybe CA is the point. Franco used Mark Levinson amps within his speakers engineering work. And all his speakers, including less expensive ones, are really demanding on amp quality. So it is a question why today's SF distributor use CA amps for today's SF speakers demo. The times are changing. Enjoy your speakers.

On Dutch forums you hear many saying that Sonus Faber sold her soul to the devil. Manufacturing in China oh dear. Well the reviews  of the new speakers is always very good. So times are changing and and it seems that a lot of people are having problems with that. I worked in hifi retail and know about independent reviews, that they do not exist. But in Holland Sonus Faber is still sold by very reputable shops. And the consensus is that the speakers made in China are a very good deal because production costs are lower. So price is lower and thats only good for consumers. Soon i will go look for new speakers and Sonus Faber will be number one on my list. I will sell my old Signums for a hell of of a price because many think that they are beter then the new lines. Double profit.