What upgrade hasn't worked for you?

I take this thread to mean kit you've actually bought, rather than tried on demo and decided you didn't like it. The only component I bought and realised I'd made a terrible mistake was a Marantz CD player, a three-quarter sized thing (don't ask me what the designation was, I never remember such things) when CD first appeared on the market, bought because, hey, it'll be "Perfect sound forever"! I was dismayed, then thought perhaps it was the discs I'd bought. No such luck! It ended up gathering dust whilst I carried on enjoying my Rega Planar 3.

Tony,

The early CDPs were like that.  There were exceptions - Meridian - but I waited until I heard the Arcam Alpha in 1991 before I bought a CDP. 

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Tony,

The early CDPs were like that.  There were exceptions - Meridian - but I waited until I heard the Arcam Alpha in 1991 before I bought a CDP. 

Regards,

Lindsay

Indeed Lindsay. I didn't bother with CD again until I demo'd an Orelle CD10 transport with matching DAC. That was pretty good. For CD anyway.

I have a couple of super early Marantz CD 74s(TDA 1540 and CDM1 mk1)and i think they are even more analogue sounding than my CDI or CD2  Naim players. Many of the early prestige 14bit players were built like tanks and sounded very musical and smooth.  It was only when manufacturers started cutting costs and bringing in cheaper models in the mid 80s that CD players started becoming really nasty. Naim amps just highlighted their deficiencies, IMO.

All my bad  buys were those plastiky cheapo CD players.

SIster xx

Sister E. posted:

...those plastiky cheapo CD players.

Agree - the description "plasticky" is definitely not applicable to the first generation Marantz players.  I still have a CD74 and it's built like the proverbial tank.  It also sounds a bit like a tank when you open or close the drawer, and responses to button presses are about as slow as a WWI tank.

It's still going strong though and actually doesn't sound half bad for an early player.  

Spot on Richard. I think the CD 74 is a fabulously musical player that is very emotionally involving and one of the best of the older generation players, next to the Naim models. And it has a transport that goes on forever.

For me it was the Naim DC1 cable. I twice bought it and then sold it on because, despite changing systems, it was too lifeless and dull compared to my Clearer audio silver-line for co-axial purposes. I really tried to like the DC1 but failed...

Probably a Gustard U12 USB-SPDIF converter for me. Didn't lose too much on it but it made no difference in my set up unfortunately. I know others have had good results however.

I tried for a few months a Townshend Audio's Seismic Sink which used an air suspension system to isolate the CD player from vibrations. The thing was well built with four adjustable legs, a green level bubble in the front as well as a pilot light which started blinking every time there was a need to add air (when the upper and lower plates started touching each other)  through a valve in the back. Eventually, I got tired of constantly having to pump air, especially that the sound improvement was very marginal, so I let it go.

I moved from some Epos speakers to Naim Credos as I was wanting a path to an active Naim system. I never really loved them, and only when I bought some SBLs did I realise how much they had constrained my enjoyment. Even run passive the SBLs were a lot more fun.

Bruce

Nap 250.2. Don't get me wrong, I loved the amp. But less than 6 months after I forked out for a new 250.2 Naim brought out the DR and stuffed the 2nd hand value of 250.2s. Not actually the end of the world but mentally irritating.

Any time I've stupidly invested in carts on OK turntables.

Should have attended more at the dealer's instead and chatting on good TTs even when fitted with budget carts.

In a way, Naim.

In 2006 I had moved house form my native town to the small village I inhabit now, bringing along with me a Lexicon RT1 universal player, Bow Technologies Wazoo XL, Marten Design Miles II speakers. Following a desire to have good FM as a source, I bought a NAT05 tuner. It was some time since I had had any Naim (last was a CD3.5 between 98 and 01), and this triggered an insane urge to go back to the brand in full. So I bought a CD5, then it was CDX2/XPS/202/200, then an AV system with DVD5, AV2, Nap175, Nap200, N-Center, N-Sats, SBLs. Since then, my gear turnover has become sort of a forum joke among those who know me. This non-placated thirst has brought 4 or 5 CDX2s, a number of HiCaps, at least 3 or 4 XPS, a CDS3, another pair of SBLs, another AV2... I have tried everything that could be tried from the original Nait to 282/Supercap/250.2, often the same item twice or thrice.

But of course it was never ok, I was always changing and in the end I had to acknowledge failure and consider the hypothesis that the problem was not me, but Naim. So I tried a final 'upgrade': other brands. I have replaced 282/SC/250.2 with a Luxman L590 AX mkII, the CDX2 is going to a friend in my native Torino, the Sats are staying until I find something else (but they sound good). A Luxman D-06u is perhaps coming. As far as speakers are concerned, my real taste is for the like of Pioneer Exclusive 2402, but they cost an arm and a leg.

In the end, what I retain as best in NaimWorld has not directly to do with sound: it's the infinite compatibility within the past and present range, the superlative customer care, the ingeniousness of the design. It's Richard as forum moderator and Steven as welcoming host. But also a certain feeling of secludedness, of thou shalt have no other gods before me. It was an upgrade I thought was fated to last forever. It is not.

Nigel, I owe you a bottle of Barolo.

M.

SD Acoustics SD1 Speakers. A reluctant change from Linn Kan's in 1988 because my tastes were leaning towards Classical and though the Kans were/are a remarkable magic trick on rock music, they didn't really do Classical right. The SD1's gave me the scale and drama I wanted, but it took me far too long to figure out that they weren't really all that musical...

in the end, it was down to my wonderful wife insisting that the SD1's were too big and fugly to stay in the living room that inspired me to try more domestically acceptable speakers that just happened to be spot on musically. Those speakers were Shahinian Arcs, bought in 1993. I've happily run Shahinians ever since. 

Massimo Bertola posted:

In a way, Naim.

In the end, what I retain as best in NaimWorld has not directly to do with sound: it's the infinite compatibility within the past and present range, the superlative customer care, the ingeniousness of the design. It's Richard as forum moderator and Steven as welcoming host. But also a certain feeling of secludedness, of thou shalt have no other gods before me. It was an upgrade I thought was fated to last forever. It is not.

M.

Very eloquently put, Max. You clearly deserve a gold medal for the most upgrades that didn't work. 

Best of luck and pleasure with the new ravishing sound of the Luxman and please keep us updated with the future changes of your music system.

Haim

Haim,

I still have a crush for certain Naim products – a totally irrational selection: my first Nait, the AV2, NAP150. I think the lavender is the best VFM interconnect in existence (which has never prevented me from buying four or five HiLines); I wish I had been able to appreciate the Nait XS more. On the other hand, I hate SNAICs. If I were to elencate the Naim products for which I only felt friendly and sympathetic feelings, I'll look like an audio freak and will rise smiles saying: the AV2 and the N-Sats.

The rest was probably not for me. But – as Sarah Vaughan wrote to Kevin Godley and Lol Creme as a dedication on a picture after her collaboration to Consequences (one of my preferred pop works ever) It was a gas. In a way.

Max, reading your post brought such a mix of emotions.  I realise just how much philosophising, agonising and soul searching you have done in the past months, so if the fairly radical change in kit has brought you some respite from this then I'm happy for you.  

Of course, if there's one thing you have learned by now it's to not sell the n-Sats.  Mothball them if you must, should a more sympathetic partner be needed during the luxman affair, but you never know what's coming around the corner.  

Have fun trying out something different, I sincerely hope it works out. And if it doesn't, well, it's not like there's any great shortage of alternatives. However, it appears in your post that you have made a compelling list of reasons for Naim, so never say never again...

Many years ago (pre Naim/Linn system) I decided to replace my Tandberg TCD310 cassette deck with a new Kenwood 3 head deck, because "three heads must be better and this new deck will do other types of cassette than types I and II".  Big mistake.  Sound quality worse.  Alas, I had already sold the Tandberg before finding this out.   

Replacing 72/HiCap/140 with Linn Mimik/Majick in the early '90, Got rid of them 3 years later  and returned with CD 3.5 Nait 3

Regards

Roberto

Two HiCaps on the NAC282. Put one on the Stageline. A much better proposition.

Richard Dane posted:

Max, never say never again...

I never do... 

M

I could not install a dedicated mains supply to my Naim system but realized the importance of current delivery to the system. I tried some high end power distributors with passive filters that should not limit the “current transport” or “transient response” according to the manufactors.

(Sorry for my incorrect English but I hope you can follow what I mean. )

At the time I had a NAC282/HiCap DR – NAP200 system and I really thought a few of the filters I tested improved the sound without limiting the transient delivery of the current and improving the sound. You know, all this “inky blackness” and so on… 

After upgrading to NAC252 – NAP300 and sorting out my Ethernet cables I tried to go back to my MusicLine netlist and it was clear that it was better. Better dynamics in the music and a more “live” feeling.

First I was surprised that a simple 75 Euro distribution block could outperform a Shunyata Triton + Anaconda power chord for 10k Euro. Was I wrong a few years earlier?

My own analysis is that the Shunyata products masked/decreased some flaws/shortcomings that I had in my system at the time and actually mad the system sound better at the time. After I had upgraded my system to the much better NAC252 – NAP300 the Shunyata products instead made my system sound worse…

At least I now know that this forum was right (as usual) when it comes to Naim not working together with mains filters 

I have installed a dedicated mains supply a few weeks ago which improved the sound.

Now I’m testing a Furutech wall socket so maybe I can write in a few weeks about how bad that was and that it did not work out 

After reading that some people rated the performance lift when changing to a Furutech wall socket at the same level as changing a “black box” I could not resist testing. Some people also think that a Furutech wall socket make their system sound worse but it will be fun to try and not that expensive if I made a wrong choice.

I’m also hoping for Naim to release a well-made power distribution block so that I can change my MusicLine which I suspect still is a limiting factor in my system…

/Marcus  

MarcusM posted:

I could not install a dedicated mains supply to my Naim system but realized the importance of current delivery to the system. I tried some high end power distributors with passive filters that should not limit the “current transport” or “transient response” according to the manufactors.

(Sorry for my incorrect English but I hope you can follow what I mean. )

At the time I had a NAC282/HiCap DR – NAP200 system and I really thought a few of the filters I tested improved the sound without limiting the transient delivery of the current and improving the sound. You know, all this “inky blackness” and so on… 

After upgrading to NAC252 – NAP300 and sorting out my Ethernet cables I tried to go back to my MusicLine netlist and it was clear that it was better. Better dynamics in the music and a more “live” feeling.

First I was surprised that a simple 75 Euro distribution block could outperform a Shunyata Triton + Anaconda power chord for 10k Euro. Was I wrong a few years earlier?

My own analysis is that the Shunyata products masked/decreased some flaws/shortcomings that I had in my system at the time and actually mad the system sound better at the time. After I had upgraded my system to the much better NAC252 – NAP300 the Shunyata products instead made my system sound worse…

At least I now know that this forum was right (as usual) when it comes to Naim not working together with mains filters 

I have installed a dedicated mains supply a few weeks ago which improved the sound.

Now I’m testing a Furutech wall socket so maybe I can write in a few weeks about how bad that was and that it did not work out 

After reading that some people rated the performance lift when changing to a Furutech wall socket at the same level as changing a “black box” I could not resist testing. Some people also think that a Furutech wall socket make their system sound worse but it will be fun to try and not that expensive if I made a wrong choice.

I’m also hoping for Naim to release a well-made power distribution block so that I can change my MusicLine which I suspect still is a limiting factor in my system…

/Marcus  

I installed a Furutech GTX Rhodium receptacle and it improved the sound especially micro dynamics, but when I plugged in the Audience AR6 PDC there was no contest at all. The PDC made my system sound magical and I found that the best solution is to plug the Audience PDC to the Furutech receptacle. 

MarcusM posted:

I’m also hoping for Naim to release a well-made power distribution block so that I can change my MusicLine which I suspect still is a limiting factor in my system…

/Marcus  

Naim used to sell the Musicline Powerigel (not anymore) on their web site ,so I guess that's some sort of recommendation.

Musicline (German)  web site sell the Powerigel in various sizes. They also sell the Powerigel Plus which uses Naim Powerline cable and plugs. Obviously more expensive than the "standard" model.

I have the "standard" Powerigel 8 plug version, which works well.

Massimo Bertola posted:

In a way, Naim.

In 2006 I had moved house form my native town to the small village I inhabit now, bringing along with me a Lexicon RT1 universal player, Bow Technologies Wazoo XL, Marten Design Miles II speakers. Following a desire to have good FM as a source, I bought a NAT05 tuner. It was some time since I had had any Naim (last was a CD3.5 between 98 and 01), and this triggered an insane urge to go back to the brand in full. So I bought a CD5, then it was CDX2/XPS/202/200, then an AV system with DVD5, AV2, Nap175, Nap200, N-Center, N-Sats, SBLs. Since then, my gear turnover has become sort of a forum joke among those who know me. This non-placated thirst has brought 4 or 5 CDX2s, a number of HiCaps, at least 3 or 4 XPS, a CDS3, another pair of SBLs, another AV2... I have tried everything that could be tried from the original Nait to 282/Supercap/250.2, often the same item twice or thrice.

But of course it was never ok, I was always changing and in the end I had to acknowledge failure and consider the hypothesis that the problem was not me, but Naim. So I tried a final 'upgrade': other brands. I have replaced 282/SC/250.2 with a Luxman L590 AX mkII, the CDX2 is going to a friend in my native Torino, the Sats are staying until I find something else (but they sound good). A Luxman D-06u is perhaps coming. As far as speakers are concerned, my real taste is for the like of Pioneer Exclusive 2402, but they cost an arm and a leg.

In the end, what I retain as best in NaimWorld has not directly to do with sound: it's the infinite compatibility within the past and present range, the superlative customer care, the ingeniousness of the design. It's Richard as forum moderator and Steven as welcoming host. But also a certain feeling of secludedness, of thou shalt have no other gods before me. It was an upgrade I thought was fated to last forever. It is not.

Nigel, I owe you a bottle of Barolo.

M.

Hi Massimo

would you please be able to say what exactly about your various Naim components didn't get along with you?

I can't really imagine life without my Naim system, so keen to know what you don't like about the sound, and what you think should be improved.