Buying and maintaining a Naim system out of UK - is it worth it?

I see thanks

steve95775 posted:

I am an Australian owner of Naim product, and one of my reasons for buying it was because of their amazing longevity and build quality. I have shied away from products which offer great sound but uncertain servicing in the past because it always ends in tears.

Having said that my NAC-N 172 has developed the annoying habit of spontaneously muting. Reading online it appears that this is a reasonably common fault, relating to the capacitance switch built into the Naim logo on the front panel. It comes and goes, and at this stage not often enough to get me to have it fixed but that day is approaching.

I am sure that the switch is a piece of OEM electronics which has been carefully chosen by Naim, and as I'm out of warranty, (which I must admit I am surprised that there is only a 12 month warranty here in Australia), I am bracing myself for the conversation with my dealer regarding cost of repair when I finally get to the point of fixing it.

As noted above, analogue products and components rarely goes wrong. Capacitors will degrade in time. Mechanical switches and volume controls can fail. And you can't blame Naim if a bought in chip or micro switch dies. So it's take the rough with the smooth.

Hi Steve,

Please take your 172 to your dealer and we will fix the muting issue for you. For everyone's information the warranty in Australia is two years. However as Richard points out the warranty is for locally purchased products only and product purchased outside of Australia is not covered by that warranty and is looked at on a case by case basis.

Thanks

Chris Murphy

Chris Murphy posted:

steve95775 posted:

I am an Australian owner of Naim product, and one of my reasons for buying it was because of their amazing longevity and build quality. I have shied away from products which offer great sound but uncertain servicing in the past because it always ends in tears.

Having said that my NAC-N 172 has developed the annoying habit of spontaneously muting. Reading online it appears that this is a reasonably common fault, relating to the capacitance switch built into the Naim logo on the front panel. It comes and goes, and at this stage not often enough to get me to have it fixed but that day is approaching.

I am sure that the switch is a piece of OEM electronics which has been carefully chosen by Naim, and as I'm out of warranty, (which I must admit I am surprised that there is only a 12 month warranty here in Australia), I am bracing myself for the conversation with my dealer regarding cost of repair when I finally get to the point of fixing it.

As noted above, analogue products and components rarely goes wrong. Capacitors will degrade in time. Mechanical switches and volume controls can fail. And you can't blame Naim if a bought in chip or micro switch dies. So it's take the rough with the smooth.

Hi Steve,

Please take your 172 to your dealer and we will fix the muting issue for you. For everyone's information the warranty in Australia is two years. However as Richard points out the warranty is for locally purchased products only and product purchased outside of Australia is not covered by that warranty and is looked at on a case by case basis.

Thanks

Chris Murphy

Hey Chris,

That's great! I was not expecting that. I will give young Andrew a call and see if he's up to some good NZ Pinot Noir and then I'll hit him up...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ryder. posted:

steve95775 posted:

As noted above, analogue products and components rarely goes wrong. Capacitors will degrade in time. Mechanical switches and volume controls can fail. And you can't blame Naim if a bought in chip or micro switch dies. So it's take the rough with the smooth.

It is useful that you brought this up. I have forgotten to disclose an issue with my NAC 202. About 5 years ago there was static or crackling noises from the loudspeakers when the volume knob was turned up or down. Apparently the volume pot was found to be dirty. That was the only issue with the NAC 202 that I had encountered. No failure with volume controls though.

Indeed, when I had a 202, I had bought it pre loved, and read about dirty pots.. so on the remote I swept the internal balance pot from left to right a few times using the remote.. there was initially quite a crackle then all goodness.. I felt the overall performance stepped forward after that.

Simon

Dirty pots are often cured this way, a little bit of electrical contact cleaner squirted in also helps. You would be amazed at how many people get charged serious dollars by technicians, (not the ones servicing our gear of course), for this simple trick. The old slide controls were terrible for this too.

I shlepped my Nait 5i and Cd5i in my suitcase to Saudi Arabia when I worked there without any problems other than it made my case very heavy.

I was lucky enough to be closer to a dealer in Saudi than I was in the UK although the service was different but still good in its own way.

thebigfredc posted:

I shlepped my Nait 5i and Cd5i in my suitcase to Saudi Arabia when I worked there without any problems other than it made my case very heavy.

I was lucky enough to be closer to a dealer in Saudi than I was in the UK although the service was different but still good in its own way.

How did you manage 110V in Aramco?

I've owned a few Naim products but never more than 3 years so I don't know about long term reliability issues/costs. The prices here in Canada have crept up to a very uncomfortable level since I bought my XS 2 about 3 years ago. I imagine service costs have followed. How time flies and suddenly that 10 year recap deadline doesn't appear that far away any more. Seems like I just finished paying for it yesterday. Makes me question the wisdom behind the Naim ''leave turned on all the time'' philosophy.

Anyhow... 

I have owned components from other manufacturers (mostly American) that were still making music after 20+ years without any apparent degradation. I spoke to a friend the other day who I hadn't heard from since 1986. I asked jokingly if he still had the Perreaux amp that he owned back then. He answered that he did. He told me he had never turned it off since 1986 and that it was still sounding beautiful.

I owned a couple of Cambridge Audio products that failed just prior to warranty expiration. Both were repaired and sold immediately before any other issues popped up. 

dzambolaja posted:

thebigfredc posted:

I shlepped my Nait 5i and Cd5i in my suitcase to Saudi Arabia when I worked there without any problems other than it made my case very heavy.

I was lucky enough to be closer to a dealer in Saudi than I was in the UK although the service was different but still good in its own way.

How did you manage 110V in Aramco?

I lived on compounds in Khobar and Damm - both had 220v. My dealer was the Indian guy on the coast road and although taking kit away for a home dem was not really an option he was as helpful as he could.

Iconoclast posted:

I've owned a few Naim products but never more than 3 years so I don't know about long term reliability issues/costs. The prices here in Canada have crept up to a very uncomfortable level since I bought my XS 2 about 3 years ago. I imagine service costs have followed. How time flies and suddenly that 10 year recap deadline doesn't appear that far away any more. Seems like I just finished paying for it yesterday. Makes me question the wisdom behind the Naim ''leave turned on all the time'' philosophy.

Anyhow... 

I have owned components from other manufacturers (mostly American) that were still making music after 20+ years without any apparent degradation. I spoke to a friend the other day who I hadn't heard from since 1986. I asked jokingly if he still had the Perreaux amp that he owned back then. He answered that he did. He told me he had never turned it off since 1986 and that it was still sounding beautiful.

I owned a couple of Cambridge Audio products that failed just prior to warranty expiration. Both were repaired and sold immediately before any other issues popped up. 

I expect every item of hifi electronics to last at leat 10 years without a hitch, and in practice I would be disappointed if they normally didn't last at least two or three times that long, excluding mechanical items. Of course, there can be occasional random faults with anything, which is what the manufacturer's warranty is for. My amp now is Bryston, which has a 20-year transferrable warranty. PMC speakers now have a 20 year warranty (though no longer transferrable). A couple of years ago I sent a 25 year old Musical Fidelity  power amp for factory service thunking it might be due a recap as it is one of their warm-running ones heavily biased into class A, and they didn't recap because they said it tested perfectly, just changed a few minor things.

I would expect a Naim streamer to similarly last for ages, being non-mechanical and not thermally stressed, so hopefully this particular incident is just one of those unforseeable glitches. As for Naim amps, leaving aside the question of effect on sound quality - the audibility and significance of which each person can assess for themselves in their own syatem and with own ears - there are pros and cons reliability-wise in both direction with turning on and off vs leaving on, the balance likely to depend in part on the frequancy of use. It does seem odd that the capacitors seem to have a life of only just over 10 years, if that is the position, compared with some other experiences with amps. And as highlighted in this thread, how significant the cost of that might be to owners may well vary considerably by worldwide location (as well as personal finances), and may be an issue affecting Naim's popularity in other countries.

You know what really really really bugs me ?

Something deep inside is not convinced that the fault is not a software error.  Yes it does not clear itself after power cycle, but still ...

I cannot stop thinking about it in the whole process.

It is expensive and time consuming, but rewarding once the kit is installed and working.

I have had at least some naim components here in the Antipodes for a very long time - too long to mention.

The dealers are six hours travel time from home. Minor items posted take more than a week to arrive. 

We are very lucky to have access to a good provider of repair services.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ryder. posted:

steve95775 posted:

As noted above, analogue products and components rarely goes wrong. Capacitors will degrade in time. Mechanical switches and volume controls can fail. And you can't blame Naim if a bought in chip or micro switch dies. So it's take the rough with the smooth.

It is useful that you brought this up. I have forgotten to disclose an issue with my NAC 202. About 5 years ago there was static or crackling noises from the loudspeakers when the volume knob was turned up or down. Apparently the volume pot was found to be dirty. That was the only issue with the NAC 202 that I had encountered. No failure with volume controls though.

Indeed, when I had a 202, I had bought it pre loved, and read about dirty pots.. so on the remote I swept the internal balance pot from left to right a few times using the remote.. there was initially quite a crackle then all goodness.. I felt the overall performance stepped forward after that.

Simon

As part of my quarterly "housekeeping" regimen (unplug, replug, etc.) I sweep the volume & balance pots on my 282 all the way from left to right about a dozen times. It seems to freshen the sound up a little bit.

If anyone has never done this, or not done it in a few years, I'd be interested to know if they find it beneficial. Takes less than a minute ...

Colm

Corry posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

ryder. posted:

steve95775 posted:

As noted above, analogue products and components rarely goes wrong. Capacitors will degrade in time. Mechanical switches and volume controls can fail. And you can't blame Naim if a bought in chip or micro switch dies. So it's take the rough with the smooth.

It is useful that you brought this up. I have forgotten to disclose an issue with my NAC 202. About 5 years ago there was static or crackling noises from the loudspeakers when the volume knob was turned up or down. Apparently the volume pot was found to be dirty. That was the only issue with the NAC 202 that I had encountered. No failure with volume controls though.

Indeed, when I had a 202, I had bought it pre loved, and read about dirty pots.. so on the remote I swept the internal balance pot from left to right a few times using the remote.. there was initially quite a crackle then all goodness.. I felt the overall performance stepped forward after that.

Simon

As part of my quarterly "housekeeping" regimen (unplug, replug, etc.) I sweep the volume & balance pots on my 282 all the way from left to right about a dozen times. It seems to freshen the sound up a little bit.

If anyone has never done this, or not done it in a few years, I'd be interested to know if they find it beneficial. Takes less than a minute ...

Colm

Your "housekeeping" hint is so simple, yet to many people, (not generally Naim owners), this seems to be "black magic" as performed by hifi crazies. And the benefit is so easy to demonstrate. Sit down listen to things as is, then clean your contacts etc, listen again. Sure if you do it once a week that's a bit OCD, but once a year or so, (quarterly if you wish), is quite reasonable.

Having done this for many clients, have mostly had a positive result. Sometimes it doesn't make a difference, (but what do you have to lose?), and sometimes my client was looking a bit underwhelmed. Ce la vie.

steve95775 posted:

Corry posted:

As part of my quarterly "housekeeping" regimen (unplug, replug, etc.) I sweep the volume & balance pots on my 282 all the way from left to right about a dozen times. It seems to freshen the sound up a little bit.

If anyone has never done this, or not done it in a few years, I'd be interested to know if they find it beneficial. Takes less than a minute ...

Colm

Your "housekeeping" hint is so simple, yet to many people, (not generally Naim owners), this seems to be "black magic" as performed by hifi crazies. And the benefit is so easy to demonstrate. Sit down listen to things as is, then clean your contacts etc, listen again. Sure if you do it once a week that's a bit OCD, but once a year or so, (quarterly if you wish), is quite reasonable.

Having done this for many clients, have mostly had a positive result. Sometimes it doesn't make a difference, (but what do you have to lose?), and sometimes my client was looking a bit underwhelmed. Ce la vie.

Indeed! A suggestion I often make to music-loving non-initiates when they express mystification about the potential for audio improvements outside the realm of "buy better speakers" is this: Take fifteen minutes, power down your system, and unplug and replug every single connection three or four times. Then put on a record or CD, listen to a few familiar tracks without trying to be overly analytical, and just ask yourself: has the music become any more engaging or enjoyable? For most people, this exercise is the equivalent of (at least) a three-figure box upgrade.

My faith in Naim has been restored once again!

Thanks to the great effort by a excellent dealer, the distributor and Naim UK my unit was repaired and is singing again, better than ever!

Thank you Naim and all involved.

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