Labour ?

Hungryhalibut posted:

andarkian posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I think May is behaving rather despotically, and I'd never in a million years vote Tory, but even I agree that the use of fascist to describe the Tories is going a bit far. But..... I'd apply the term to the racists of UKIP, and as the Tories are trying to appeal to the UKIP supporters, they are sailing rather close to the wind on this one. 

 

You don't need to patronise me. I may have an acquired brain injury but I'm not entirely stupid. As has been said, there is a lot in common between the extreme left and the extreme right and I'd never defend Pol Pot. I also have no time for Corbyn, McDonnell or Livingstone. 

HH , you are sailing very close to the wind.  Are you trying to tell me that your opinions are tainted by your accident and that you do not believe or feel responsible for what you are saying? It is extremely offensive to use words like 'fascist' or 'racist' against anyone who does not follow your own alleged 'principles'. The most appalling activists of the current generation carry  the banner of Socialism and anti-Fascism. People who make the EDL look like choir boys.

I'm afraid it's a mantra of some on the left to judge all those who don't agree with them as racist or fascist, and equally some on the right who will view those with differing views as marxists or similar.    

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I'm afraid it's a mantra of some on the left to judge all those who don't agree with them as racist or fascist, and equally some on the right who will view those with differing views as marxists or similar.    

And those in the middle are sitting on the fence!

After reading through the last few posts it seems that the ability to be unbiased, is an ability only acquired by the few...

wenger2015 posted:

After reading through the last few posts it seems that the ability to be unbiased, is an ability only acquired by the few...

Of course some also have the inability to realise there are nuances in what we say and believe, and that saying an action is (bordering or leaning towards) facist, doesn't mean that we believe the people we are talking about are in and of themselves fascists (for example). Also that because we criticise actions on one extreme, shouldn't suggest we condone the extremes on the opposite side.

Oh and I agree that very few of us (perhaps none) are truely unbiased.  We all have our opinions shaped by our life experiences and experience those of people we know.  We make our judgements based on those experiences and see motivations in politicians, etc. biased by those experiences.

Hey, anyone got any new hifi lately?

Hungryhalibut posted:

andarkian posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

I think May is behaving rather despotically, and I'd never in a million years vote Tory, but even I agree that the use of fascist to describe the Tories is going a bit far. But..... I'd apply the term to the racists of UKIP, and as the Tories are trying to appeal to the UKIP supporters, they are sailing rather close to the wind on this one. 

What sort of brainwashing have you been through that justifies you saying that people who do not agree with your failed Socialist 'principles' are any more racist or Fascist than the likes of Stalin, PolPot, Mao Tse Tung or Kim Jong Un? Don't you get it that the people who were historically Fascists were exponents of the word 'Socialism'.

And what makes anyone who voted UKIP any worse than the truly awful racist John McDonnell, a man who praised IRA murderers, and is happy to be associated with Middle East terrorists, or the hideous Nugee who hates white man van and anyone who displays the flag of her own country, England. Then there is Livingstone the anti-Semite and Corbyn has been very shy of disagreeing with him. 

These apparently are your very acceptable faces of Socialism, but hey, they never voted UKIP so they must be good guys. 

You don't need to patronise me. I may have an acquired brain injury but I'm not entirely stupid. As has been said, there is a lot in common between the extreme left and the extreme right and I'd never defend Pol Pot. I also have no time for Corbyn, McDonnell or Livingstone. 

Ah, Pol Pot, I voted him to be the man of the 20th century, and Corbyn  not to far behind.

Drewy posted:

Hey, anyone got any new hifi lately?

Wait until Labour are elected and everyone will have to have the same hifi  

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Drewy posted:

Hey, anyone got any new hifi lately?

Wait until Labour are elected and everyone will have to have the same hifi  

Let's just hope Diane Abbott is not in charge of the pricing ...

If May gets her hard Brexit, Focal speakers may get an enormous trade tariff. Then everyone will only be able to afford proper British speakers.

Hungryhalibut posted:

If May gets her hard Brexit, Focal speakers may get an enormous trade tariff. Then everyone will only be able to afford proper British speakers.

Not everyone. Just the rich. 

A Nait 2 for everyone!

wenger2015 posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Drewy posted:

Hey, anyone got any new hifi lately?

Wait until Labour are elected and everyone will have to have the same hifi  

Let's just hope Diane Abbott is not in charge of the pricing ...

It might be a good thing. Given her ability to grossly underestimate costs, a 552 might be priced at a couple of hundred quid...

Drewy posted:

Hey, anyone got any new hifi lately?

HiFi? Is this a HiFi board? I just saw the words 'Padded Cell' and jumped right in 

wenger2015 posted:

After reading through the last few posts it seems that the ability to be unbiased, is an ability only acquired by the few...

No point being in the Padded Cell and being unbiased unless you are just there to watch the lunatics screaming and banging their heads off the walls, in which case you would be wise to keep your own counsel and just say nothing at all. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

If May gets her hard Brexit, Focal speakers may get an enormous trade tariff. Then everyone will only be able to afford proper British speakers.

If they become overpriced then I am sure they will increase in popularity no end

Hungryhalibut posted:

If May gets her hard Brexit, Focal speakers may get an enormous trade tariff. Then everyone will only be able to afford proper British speakers.

As it happens, I have everything in hand! Tomorrow, via subterfuge (my little German sports car), I intend to reoccupy Normandy, in fact Bayeux is my secret base. On the pretence of gorging myself  on French food and wine as well as visiting the British landing sites, I am going to help France out of a very difficult and embarrassing situation with that Mummy's Boy Macron.

andarkian posted:

wenger2015 posted:

After reading through the last few posts it seems that the ability to be unbiased, is an ability only acquired by the few...

No point being in the Padded Cell and being unbiased unless you are just there to watch the lunatics screaming and banging their heads off the walls, in which case you would be wise to keep your own counsel and just say nothing at all. 

But .........................................................................

andarkian posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think UKIP originally gathered much of its support from disenfranchised tory and labour voters.. now UKIP appears without a mission I suspect its voters are aligning themselves with new parties rather than parties actively hunting for them - and right now there appears a migration to Tory from both UKIP and Labour... but as I say i think that will only be short lived.

But having said even UKIP are not racists, just like I would not brand Labour racist (because there is a slight whiff of anti-Semitism in places)  - racists arer the preserve of the EDL and other such extreme minority parties in my opinion - and there is world of difference between UKIP and the EDL. 

But never admit that you might even have considered voting UKIP Simon as that is beyond the pale for the Guardianista, Socialist, moral high ground owning, anti-Fascist Fascists, which is what they are, who feel totally empowered in dictating what is right and wrong to the rest of us. Hypocrites the lot of em!

andarkian,

You have the most uncanny habit of criticising people for the very traits that you so obviously display yourself.

You certainly feel very confidently empowered to dictate what is right and wrong to the rest of us, you certainly appear to think that you occupy the moral high ground, and your criticism in such a confident and arrogant way of those whose opinions differ from your own is grossly hypocritical.

Of course, there is the possibility that you think that there is no such thing as "a moral high ground", in which case much is explained. 

Hmack posted:

andarkian posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think UKIP originally gathered much of its support from disenfranchised tory and labour voters.. now UKIP appears without a mission I suspect its voters are aligning themselves with new parties rather than parties actively hunting for them - and right now there appears a migration to Tory from both UKIP and Labour... but as I say i think that will only be short lived.

But having said even UKIP are not racists, just like I would not brand Labour racist (because there is a slight whiff of anti-Semitism in places)  - racists arer the preserve of the EDL and other such extreme minority parties in my opinion - and there is world of difference between UKIP and the EDL. 

But never admit that you might even have considered voting UKIP Simon as that is beyond the pale for the Guardianista, Socialist, moral high ground owning, anti-Fascist Fascists, which is what they are, who feel totally empowered in dictating what is right and wrong to the rest of us. Hypocrites the lot of em!

andarkian,

You have the most uncanny habit of criticising people for the very traits that you so obviously display yourself.

You certainly feel very confidently empowered to dictate what is right and wrong to the rest of us, you certainly appear to think that you occupy the moral high ground, and your criticism in such a confident and arrogant way of those whose opinions differ from your own is grossly hypocritical.

Of course, there is the possibility that you think that there is no such thing as "a moral high ground", in which case much is explained. 

Yep! 

From what I've seen of Labour's leaked manifesto, I rather like it. Renationalisation of the Royal Mail, railways and energy companies, scrapping tuition fees, protection of vital businesses from hostile takeovers, sensible housing policies... what's not to like? Neolibtards and crony capitalists will hate it of course.

(Although I wish they had a rather less opaque immigration policy).

Just one question, what collection of other public services are going to take the cuts needed to pay for this shopping list?

Huge posted:

Just one question, what collection of other public services are going to take the cuts needed to pay for this shopping list?

Services overseen by Damian Green of Atos and Capita. Services that have raked in half a Billion for cruel disability assessments ?

Huge posted:

Just one question, what collection of other public services are going to take the cuts needed to pay for this shopping list?

The answer is to increase taxes. Good public services don't come for free. In the UK the public sector currently takes 38% of GDP. In Germany it's 44%. You can't have German quality services with a US scale state. If we keep on the path to 36%, we will get a crumbling NHS, failing schools, roads falling to bits, a worse train services, no buses, hardly any police on the beat, no children's centres, no libraries, monthly refuse collections and so on. This is the debate we need to have, but no politician seems up for it. 

TOBYJUG posted:

Huge posted:

Just one question, what collection of other public services are going to take the cuts needed to pay for this shopping list?

Services overseen by Damian Green of Atos and Capita. Services that have raked in half a Billion for cruel disability assessments ?

For a neo-Caitalist you might be slightly surprised that I agree. I am deeply sceptical about our so called privatised industries that appear to level more and more costs on British customers without benefits. The power industries, the water industry, the rail services are all farmed out, in many cases to foreign owners. We have no continuity of supply for any essential service. The rail franchise is a scam whereby the bidders are loaded with a pile of upfront costs to the government without a wheel turning. Our rail services are an international disgrace with unsupportable prices.

As to British companies on the FTSE, we just lost AIM a couple of years ago to some debt laden Chinaman. The Cadbury's takeover went terribly well for us, didn't it? We have been asset and industry stripped to the bone. No point in being creative as a nation if we absorb all the development costs and then give it away to some foreign opportunist. 

Andarkian - sneakily reoccupying France from his gite in the centre of Bayeux, having just enjoyed a breakfast of croissants, bread and coffee. Yum!