Labour ?

Hungryhalibut posted:

So what would you do to deal with those that abuse schools? And exactly who abuses schools, and how do they abuse them? How will that deal with the annual real term cuts in school funding that a built into Government spending plans? 

I have a niece that is a schoolteacher,  some of the stories I hear are shocking,  safe to say many of our hardworking teachers are abused...

My sister in law is an NHS nurse....often a similar story from working in the A&E dept..

My answer is far to controversial for a Saturday morning read..but it's not throw more money at the problems......so I think best move on

MDS posted:

wenger2015 posted:

 

 

I was using my newly acquired Diane Abbott calculator,  

 

I liked that expression, wenger. I think we might all need one of those when justifying our Naim systems 

I would normally recommend the best place to buy one, but the price for them is constantly changing 

wenger2015 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

So what would you do to deal with those that abuse schools? And exactly who abuses schools, and how do they abuse them? How will that deal with the annual real term cuts in school funding that a built into Government spending plans? 

I have a niece that is a schoolteacher,  some of the stories I hear are shocking,  safe to say many of our hardworking teachers are abused...

My sister in law is an NHS nurse....often a similar story from working in the A&E dept..

My answer is far to controversial for a Saturday morning read..but it's not throw more money at the problems......so I think best move on

Basically, then, you don't want to give schools more money despite a real terms per pupil spending cut, but you have no alternative suggestions. 

Of course some of our teachers are abused, and of course it's totally unacceptable, but if you waved a magic wand and the abuse disappeared, the funding gap would still remain. My wife is a school business manager, so she knows exactly what goes on, but she also has to balance the budget. And that means reducing staff numbers, which leads to larger classes and reduced support for the children. Staffing makes up 80% of a school budget, so there really is no alternative, other than not hearing the school and letting the windows fall out. And the Tories just close their eyes and hope the problem goes away. Which it won't. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

So what would you do to deal with those that abuse schools? And exactly who abuses schools, and how do they abuse them? How will that deal with the annual real term cuts in school funding that a built into Government spending plans? 

I have a niece that is a schoolteacher,  some of the stories I hear are shocking,  safe to say many of our hardworking teachers are abused...

My sister in law is an NHS nurse....often a similar story from working in the A&E dept..

My answer is far to controversial for a Saturday morning read..but it's not throw more money at the problems......so I think best move on

Basically, then, you don't want to give schools more money despite a real terms per pupil spending cut, but you have no alternative suggestions. 

Of course some of our teachers are abused, and of course it's totally unacceptable, but if you waved a magic wand and the abuse disappeared, the funding gap would still remain. My wife is a school business manager, so she knows exactly what goes on, but she also has to balance the budget. And that means reducing staff numbers, which leads to larger classes and reduced support for the children. Staffing makes up 80% of a school budget, so there really is no alternative, other than not hearing the school and letting the windows fall out. And the Tories just close their eyes and hope the problem goes away. Which it won't. 

The money that has been spent on new schools in the not to distant past  has been considerable , the problem has been these new schools have been built by effectively criminals, the maintenance arrangements have been organised in a similar fashion,  and the bill to sort it out is astronomical.... 

The perpetrators of these past decisions  need to be made accountable ...

That'll be Michael Gove then. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

That'll be Michael Gove then. 

If it is, then he needs to be held to account ....

People are sometimes unforgivably horrible to staff in schools and A&E, so de-fund public services and shrink the state?

That's some pretty weird reasoning.

Dave***t posted:

People are sometimes unforgivably horrible to staff in schools and A&E, so de-fund public services and shrink the state?

That's some pretty weird reasoning.

I didn't actually say that.......???

But ..How about ...Make people accountable for their actions ...???

If you think the answer is just throw more money at it.... then that is a somewhat narrow minded view...

I assume you must be speaking from an 'I love labour right or wrong ' perspective?...

Ps I am not a member of any political party, but I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric 

wenger2015 posted:

Dave***t posted:

People are sometimes unforgivably horrible to staff in schools and A&E, so de-fund public services and shrink the state?

That's some pretty weird reasoning.

I didn't actually say that.......???

But ..How about ...Make people accountable for their actions ...???

If you think the answer is just throw more money at it.... then that is a somewhat narrow minded view...

I assume you must be speaking from an 'I love labour right or wrong ' perspective?...

Ps I am not a member of any political party, but I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric 

 

Aha, I was just going off the bit where you said this:

'I do not wish to pay a penny more....., the NHS, police, schools, will always need more and more money.

Far better to come up with a policy that deals with those that abuse these fine institutions ....'

Followed by your post where you mention knowing individuals who have been abused.  Maybe I got 2 & 2 = 5, I blame my DA™ calculator.

No, I don't think throwing more money at things is an answer.  But neither do I think that when important services are starting to crumble for lack of funding that the only answer is 'tighten your belts and sort your own problems out'.  The NHS, for example, has been one of the most efficient health services in the world for years.  The answer IMO is more money where it's needed, while doing what you suggest and stopping waste and abuse wherever it arises as a matter of course.  The difference is that I don't expect the balance between those things to always cost ≤ £0.

And no, I don't think Labour are right about everything.  I'm not a member of any political party either, and have voted for several parties at various times.

wenger2015 posted:

Dave***t posted:

People are sometimes unforgivably horrible to staff in schools and A&E, so de-fund public services and shrink the state?

That's some pretty weird reasoning.

I didn't actually say that.......???

But ..How about ...Make people accountable for their actions ...???

If you think the answer is just throw more money at it.... then that is a somewhat narrow minded view...

I assume you must be speaking from an 'I love labour right or wrong ' perspective?...

Ps I am not a member of any political party, but I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric 

 

Wenger2015,

You may not be a member of any political party (I suspect that few people who contribute to this thread are), but your statement of"I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric" suggests that you probably have an allegiance to (if not membership of) one particular party. I also suspect, from this and your other posts that you might qualify for either the "I hate labour right or wrong"  or the"I can't see past the Tories right or wrong"  tag that mirrors the pejorative term you apply to others in this thread .

The answer is obviously not"Just throw more money at it", nor is it "Make people responsible for their actions", whatever this statement means.

However, it is pretty clear to me that both our public education system and (in particular) the NHS are grossly underfunded. Both require a considerable injection of funding, and the only fair way to provide this additional funding is by raising taxes for those who can afford it, and by ring-fencing the money raised specifically for the NHS and public education. I have no quarrel with private education per say, but private education cannot and shouldn't be subsidised by the State.

If this means that those higher earners (possibly such as you or I) have to contribute a little more, then so be it. Those of us, myself included, who aspire to owning a 'Linn Katalyst' streamer or 'Statement' amplifier can afford to wait just that little bit longer to fulfil our dreams. We are very fortunate to be in such a position.    

Hmack posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Dave***t posted:

People are sometimes unforgivably horrible to staff in schools and A&E, so de-fund public services and shrink the state?

That's some pretty weird reasoning.

I didn't actually say that.......???

But ..How about ...Make people accountable for their actions ...???

If you think the answer is just throw more money at it.... then that is a somewhat narrow minded view...

I assume you must be speaking from an 'I love labour right or wrong ' perspective?...

Ps I am not a member of any political party, but I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric 

 

Wenger2015,

You may not be a member of any political party (I suspect that few people who contribute to this thread are), but your statement of"I am somewhat disillusioned with the 'make the taxpayer pay more ' rhetoric" suggests that you probably have an allegiance to (if not membership of) one particular party. I also suspect, from this and your other posts that you might qualify for either the "I hate labour right or wrong"  or the"I can't see past the Tories right or wrong"  tag that mirrors the pejorative term you apply to others in this thread .

The answer is obviously not"Just throw more money at it", nor is it "Make people responsible for their actions", whatever this statement means.

However, it is pretty clear to me that both our public education system and (in particular) the NHS are grossly underfunded. Both require a considerable injection of funding, and the only fair way to provide this additional funding is by raising taxes for those who can afford it, and by ring-fencing the money raised specifically for the NHS and public education. I have no quarrel with private education per say, but private education cannot and shouldn't be subsidised by the State.

If this means that those higher earners (possibly such as you or I) have to contribute a little more, then so be it. Those of us, myself included, who aspire to owning a 'Linn Katalyst' streamer or 'Statement' amplifier can afford to wait just that little bit longer to fulfil our dreams. We are very fortunate to be in such a position.    

I understand you reasoning.

I am not a member of any political party, never have been and never will be.

My opinions reflect my life experience,  and my general disillusionment with politicians, who have a history of saying one thing and doing another. 

My business has been built up over 30 years of working all the hours God sends ( appropriate moment for violin to start playing).. 

I have no desire to pay more tax, I could quite easily avoid paying as much as I do, with a little creative accounting, but I'm old school and still believe in fair play and honesty.

I don't have the answers, and I'm not convinced their is an answer to the NHS black hole ??

One thing I am convinced about is I don't wish to be a cash cow to support organisations in need of financial help, whoever they might be...

Ps I'm all for healthy opinionated debate, but if I have put any views across that could have been articulated better, please except my apologies 

Okay - if we adopt JK's manifesto can we be confident that the demands upon the education system and the NHS will be met and in 10 years time there won't be another funding crisis?

With the uncertainty of Brexit it's impossible to say 'yes' to that. The same applies to any party's manifesto though. 

Very convenient response.   

Without wishing to open up in this thread the somewhat polarised topic of Brexit, I think it reasonable to posit that the ten years ahead of us must contain a higher degree of uncertainty than we've had in forecasting ahead previously.  The Tories would have us believe that with the right deal the opportunities are greater than the threats. I don't think Labour has attempted to forecast the future, save for noting the importance of protecting rights enjoyed while within the EU.  

What I think can be said with a degree of confidence is that the next world-wide downturn can't be far away because history shows that one occurs every ten years of so and the last slump came with the banking crisis in 2008.  So I think a relevant question to consider is, if another downturn is inevitable at some time during the next parliament, which of the party has the best manifesto to best withstand it? The Conservative's, promising more austerity (still aiming to eliminate the deficient but the target date put back again), or Labour which is promising what amounts to a strong economic stimulus through public spending?  Many economists say austerity  measures in the face of an economic downturn simply makes the downturn worse and that it is better tackled with a labour-intensive stimulus in public spending.  

Of course, there is also the question of competence in managing the economy and the Conservative party would have us believe that their track-record is better than Corbyn's, the latter's being unproven. However, even if you believe that the Conservative party would be more competent in managing, there remains the important difference between the underlying policies. Put simply, if it better to have a Conservative party managing competently policies that you don't much like or a Corbyn-led government trying to implement policies you do like but with questionable competence? 

I see he is now making promises on football now, and special train tickets for football supporters, oh and investment in the train system in Liverpool.  Those free Naim systems and chocolate bars must be just around the corner!  Naim for the many, and not the few

dayjay posted:

I see he is now making promises on football now, and special train tickets for football supporters, oh and investment in the train system in Liverpool.  Those free Naim systems and chocolate bars must be just around the corner!  Naim for the many, and not the few

Brilliant... 

dayjay posted:

I see he is now making promises on football now, and special train tickets for football supporters, oh and investment in the train system in Liverpool.  Those free Naim systems and chocolate bars must be just around the corner!  Naim for the many, and not the few

Why stop at special tickets, with the renationalisation of the railways, surely the reintroduction of football specials will be the way to go. Now that the average soccer fan is a more civilised beast, hopefully we won’t get the carnage we had in the 70s.

 Taxing premiership clubs. What’s not to like about that, a great idea.

Chat Sh*t - Get Elected.

https://www.facebook.com/VICE/...os/1687810714585513/

Surely it's better to support youth football than fox hunting. 

Interesting that one Nigel I wonder if JC favours banning Angling?

Is JC equally keen to support grass routes tennis and rugby and golf?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Is JC equally keen to support grass routes tennis and rugby and golf?

Wait a day or two and I'm sure he'll promise to spend some money there too

At the moment JC would appear to support anything that will get him votes, apart from all those controversial causes he supported before he became labour leader.  Too brave to denounce them but to weak to say he still supports them.   He is a perfect example of the Peter principle 

Don't forget.

THIS election is purely about BREXIT.

The rest is piffle.