Labour ?

I wouldn't argue otherwise Clive but it was still a clever tactic and it worked at the very end of the program

I thought Corbyn's scored a hit in responding to Rudd's citing his track-record of voting against anti-terrorism bills. He pointed out that May and quite a few other Tory's now in the Cabinet voted against a bill while in Opposition. It was one of the rare occasions on which she fell silent.

More broadly, though, I agree this debate didn't really produce anything new. Rather it was a re-affirmation of things we already knew.  On style, I thought Lucas spoke well (not that most voters will care).

I don’t think it’s worth commenting on the debate. I think people view them in the same way they view a boxing or football match, they see their boxer landing more punches and their team playing the better football.

But, I did notice the audience actually laughed at an answer by Amber Rudd, did anybody laugh at Jeremy or Tim?

dayjay posted:

I wouldn't argue otherwise Clive but it was still a clever tactic and it worked at the very end of the program

Was it a clever tactic, it was just another sound bite, TM’s been using it since she called the election, it was obvious it would be used again.

Didn’t she link it to the assertion everybody was squabbling amongst themselves. That’s not what I saw or heard, everybody seemed to be amicably disagreeing with her and Nuttal

Did your last sentence just prove your first sentence or was that deliberate?

fatcat posted:

I don’t think it’s worth commenting on the debate. I think people view them in the same way they view a boxing or football match, they see their boxer landing more punches and their team playing the better football.

But, I did notice the audience actually laughed at an answer by Amber Rudd, did anybody laugh at Jeremy or Tim?

Yes to both.  JC when he knocked back at Rudd by saying 300,000 people had elected him leader, and TF when he said TM wouldn't give you her time, so don't give her yours - instead of listening to Rudd's closing statement, why not put the kettle on, Bakeoff starts in a minute.

dayjay posted:

Did your last sentence just prove your first sentence or was that deliberate?

Probably.

Just watched some highlights of Eastenders....sorry I mean the election debate.

I hate these debates, everyone taking part just ends up looking stupid and unprofessional. I don't blame May for not wanting to get involved. Do people really feel they have to watch the soap opera to decide who to vote for?  This country is losing the plot. 

I thought the format of so many on stage required more moderation. 'Answers' required a sensible degree of challenge (not Paxman) and the squabbling was not managed properly. Lots of heat not much light

I switched off after a while. it was clear we were not going to gain many insights and I ended up judging personalities as follows:

Rudd-hard as nails, looked nervous at start.

Corbyn unrealistic and just a wee bit more slippery than I expected (has Blair been coaching?)

Farron, too many Red Bulls pre-broadcast. Some good bits.

Nutall and Lucas conformed to respective UKIP/Green stereotypes perfectly, the Plaid leader seemed a bit lost.

In the end I wanted to vote SNP as Robertson seemed to have a bit of dignity and also actually tried to answer a question now and then! His performances at PMQs are usually good too.

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I thought the format of so many on stage required more moderation. 'Answers' required a sensible degree of challenge (not Paxman) and the squabbling was not managed properly. Lots of heat not much light

I switched off after a while. it was clear we were not going to gain many insights and I ended up judging personalities as follows:

Rudd-hard as nails, looked nervous at start.

Corbyn unrealistic and just a wee bit more slippery than I expected (has Blair been coaching?)

Farron, too many Red Bulls pre-broadcast. Some good bits.

Nutall and Lucas conformed to respective UKIP/Green stereotypes perfectly, the Plaid leader seemed a bit lost.

In the end I wanted to vote SNP as Robertson seemed to have a bit of dignity and also actually tried to answer a question now and then! His performances at PMQs are usually good too.

Bruce

 

I agree that the only semblence of statesmanship came from Robertson.

Perhaps we should move the Scottish border south a bit, eg to the English Channel, then we could all vote for an SNP MP.............

Don Atkinson posted:

I agree that the only semblence of statesmanship came from Robertson.

Perhaps we should move the Scottish border south a bit, eg to the English Channel, then we could all vote for an SNP MP.............

Follow TM's advice ... vote Labour and Robertson can be deputy PM!

I watched TM’s press conference live today, two things stood out. Firstly she claims Jeremy doesn’t have a plan for Brexit, she’s the only one with a plan. Well, the only thing she came up with that could be described as a plan, was to be as belligerent and truculent as possible. That’s all she’s got, belligerent and truculent.

Secondly, the journalist asking the questions gave her a very hard time. Still she came through it, smiling, didn’t answer a single question but did point out she was strong and stable.

 I wonder why they give her such a hard time.

fatcat posted:

Secondly, the journalist asking the questions gave her a very hard time. Still she came through it, smiling, didn’t answer a single question but did point out she was strong and stable.

 

Did you see the report of her "interview" with a Plymouth journalist?  This is supposed to be verbatim the journalists 4 questions and TM's replies / non-answers...

Two visits in six weeks to one of the country's most marginal constituencies – is she getting worried?

"I'm very clear that this is a crucial election for this country."

Plymouth is feeling the effects of military cuts. Will she guarantee to protect the city from further pain?

"I'm very clear that Plymouth has a proud record of connection with the armed forces."

How will your Brexit plan make Plymouth better off?

"I think there is a better future ahead for Plymouth and for the whole of the UK."

Will you promise to sort out our transport links?

"I'm very clear that connectivity is hugely important for Plymouth and the South West generally."

Read more at http://www.plymouthherald.co.u...#GKrULp5r744hbvt0.99

Ever-so-slightly off-topic, but did anyone see the latest Andrew Neil interview on the BBC earlier? The subject was Tiny Timmy Farron. I don't think I've seen a more evasive, more shifty, more deluded, more whiney, individual in years. He consistently refused to answer Neil's questions, instead parroting FibDem propaganda and purveying rather creepy anecdotes in that uniquely fingernails-on-a-blackboard voice of his.

How the Fib dumbs believe they are in with any sort of a chance is beyond me - they and their six supporters must be a thousand sarnies short of a jubilee street party.

And to be frank, he is more irritating than Boris, Gideon, May, Nuttall, Sturgeon or Abbott combined - if such a thing were possible.

Eloise posted:

fatcat posted:

Secondly, the journalist asking the questions gave her a very hard time. Still she came through it, smiling, didn’t answer a single question but did point out she was strong and stable.

Did you see the report of her "interview" with a Plymouth journalist?  This is supposed to be verbatim the journalists 4 questions and TM's replies / non-answers...

Two visits in six weeks to one of the country's most marginal constituencies – is she getting worried?

"I'm very clear that this is a crucial election for this country."

Plymouth is feeling the effects of military cuts. Will she guarantee to protect the city from further pain?

"I'm very clear that Plymouth has a proud record of connection with the armed forces."

How will your Brexit plan make Plymouth better off?

"I think there is a better future ahead for Plymouth and for the whole of the UK."

Will you promise to sort out our transport links?

"I'm very clear that connectivity is hugely important for Plymouth and the South West generally."

I'm not sure what she can be expected her to say? There are so many underlying issues within these questions, the journo is almost asking her to commit to protecting a single town's economy. e.g. transport links to the SW have been on the political agenda for c.50 years (South Coast trunk road - read motorway nowadays), 'motorwaying' the A303, and solving the Stonehenge challenge - proposals now re-tabled of late, plus the extension of the M5 which is not straightforward).  As to defence spending..a whole other can of worms. The SW is heavily exposed to recession due to tourism and service industries. You could argue 'chicken and egg' on this re transport links but things like Plymouth Airport have proven economically non-viable.

I found QT good last night in that there was a sensible airing of thoughts on Brexit issues. I thought David Davis came across very well.  

Strange how CornwalL/SW voted for Brexit.

Happy Listener posted:

I found QT good last night in that there was a sensible airing of thoughts on Brexit issues. I thought David Davis came across very well.  

100% on the airing of Brexit,  David Davis seems to be one of the few politicians that has the ability to talk - & I mean talk weather you agree with him or not - on brexit with facts & common sense & most refreshing without inserting political paraphrases & pre-recorded sound bites - are you listening Theresa ????      

I also thought Nick Clegg came over very well,  in absolute 180 degree comparison to the shameful spectacle that the so called LibDem 'leader' put up on the Andrew Neil Interview.   

I heard a bit of QT too and was also struck that it was a mature debate. Davis and Clegg both grownups, and possible to respect their views and opinions whether you agreed or not.

The more I listen and think about it the rise in Corporation Tax suggested by Labour seems a bad idea. No-one seems sure that raising the rate actually raises revenues; certainly analysts say it is not predictable. Rise in CT also threatens future jobs and investments and I guess just raises prices-so the consumers pay the extra in the end.

Income tax seems to me to be the fair, progressive and also reliable way to increase Govt revenue.

Bruce

I always thought the Lib Dems were too quick to jettison Nick Clegg after the 2015 election - albeit he did resign I don't know if he could have been persuaded to stay.  I thought he was an excellent DPM - those that criticise over tuition fees overlook that coalition by definition requires negotiation and compromise - in effect he kept the Coalition together.  I think as Lib Dem leader he would have had a better chance of influencing during Brexit but also in regrouping the Party.  The Lib Dems are (perhaps were!) as they say a "broad church" from old style free-market liberals (which I identify with) to pseudo greens so it really is a leadership challenge as they say in business school.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Mike-B posted:

Happy Listener posted:

I found QT good last night in that there was a sensible airing of thoughts on Brexit issues. I thought David Davis came across very well.  

100% on the airing of Brexit,  David Davis seems to be one of the few politicians that has the ability to talk - & I mean talk weather you agree with him or not - on brexit with facts & common sense & most refreshing without inserting political paraphrases & pre-recorded sound bites - are you listening Theresa ????      

I also thought Nick Clegg came over very well,  in absolute 180 degree comparison to the shameful spectacle that the so called LibDem 'leader' put up on the Andrew Neil Interview.   

I find the comments about David Davis in the above posts really strange. My impression of this edition of question time are in complete contrast to those. I guess it proves that most people (I should probably include myself in this) hear what we want to hear in these TV debates. 

In sharp contrast to the above points of view, I felt that David Davis looked and sounded completely out of his depth in question time last night. He floundered badly whilst attempting to justify the lack of substance and clarity in Theresa May's manifesto, and did not come across at all well to me. I expected Angus Robertson to come across extremely  well, and he did not disappoint. I firmly believe that within the sphere of Scottish politics, and potentially within British politics, the SNP candidates are by and large the most honest and competent across the board. What a pity, they are not in a position to apply their skills fully to the British political scene as a whole.     

What I did not expect was the performance of both Barry Gardiner and Nick Clegg. After Clegg's disastrous coalition with the Tory party, I thought that I could never trust the man again. However, he came across as a very honest and capable politician, and someone whom I could probably trust again were he to reclaim his leadership of the Lib Dems. I am sure he would not repeat his dreadful mistake again.

I am very out of touch with the current Labour party, and so I am ashamed to admit that I had never even heard of Barry Gardiner prior to last night's 'Question Time', despite his lofty position in the Shadow Cabinet. I thought that he came across exceptionally well, and in stark contrast to David Davis. I must admit to being pleasantly surprised by the effectiveness and competence of many of the Labour party spokesmen in recent weeks. Individuals, whom I would not have given the time of day until recently (like John McDonnell) have raised their game dramatically in my eyes.

Just a pity that it is all just a little too late, and that the Tory party will probably regain some of the ground they have lost by the time the election takes place. The 'Fear Factor' is being peddled strongly by the right wing, and  just as in America, too many people will fall for it.     

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I always thought the Lib Dems were too quick to jettison Nick Clegg after the 2015 election - albeit he did resign I don't know if he could have been persuaded to stay.  I thought he was an excellent DPM - those that criticise over tuition fees overlook that coalition by definition requires negotiation and compromise - in effect he kept the Coalition together.  I think as Lib Dem leader he would have had a better chance of influencing during Brexit but also in regrouping the Party.  The Lib Dems are (perhaps were!) as they say a "broad church" from old style free-market liberals (which I identify with) to pseudo greens so it really is a leadership challenge as they say in business school.  

Regards,

Lindsay

I always thought we'd come to realise Clegg's qualities, and the effectiveness of the LDs in coalition to moderate more radical Tory elements.

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I always thought the Lib Dems were too quick to jettison Nick Clegg after the 2015 election - albeit he did resign I don't know if he could have been persuaded to stay.  I thought he was an excellent DPM - those that criticise over tuition fees overlook that coalition by definition requires negotiation and compromise - in effect he kept the Coalition together.  I think as Lib Dem leader he would have had a better chance of influencing during Brexit but also in regrouping the Party.  The Lib Dems are (perhaps were!) as they say a "broad church" from old style free-market liberals (which I identify with) to pseudo greens so it really is a leadership challenge as they say in business school.  

Regards,

Lindsay

I always thought we'd come to realise Clegg's qualities, and the effectiveness of the LDs in coalition to moderate more radical Tory elements.

Bruce

Well if we were still in coalition we wouldn't have done Brexit for a start..........

Maybe but I think the Tory party was so split on Europe that it was inevitable that a referendum would be needed to stop revolt at some point.

Bruce

I like the view that LDs did "rein in " the torys.

I had though they had sold out and never got any of their  policies on the books.

What I didn't like was the tory party "all on black" approach on Europe as a means  to sorting their own party out.

Supreme arrogance.

I think the raised income tax threshold for low earners was definitely LD policy adopted by coalition. Also the 'pupil premium'?