Labour ?

Just watched Theresa May’s speech outside No.10

If that wasn’t blatant electioneering I don’t know what is.

An absolute disgrace.

fatcat posted:

Just watched Theresa May’s speech outside No.10

If that wasn’t blatant electioneering I don’t know what is.

An absolute disgrace.

Completely agree ... and IDS was even worse.

Comments about what needs to change is (IMO) electioneering because of the current situation.  It's place is in a party political announcement not a PMs speach.

I am not affiliated with Labour or Conservative, but in my opinion I see no fault with TM speech. 

Under the circumstances, it was just what was needed, and to say 'enough is enough ,things will change', is exactly what we need to hear.

wenger2015 posted:

I am not affiliated with Labour or Conservative, but in my opinion I see no fault with TM speech. 

Under the circumstances, it was just what was needed, and to say 'enough is enough ,things will change', is exactly what we need to hear.

And now we need her to campaign to include what she going to change. I'm getting fed up with all the bullshit from all parties. 

fatcat posted:

Just watched Theresa May’s speech outside No.10

If that wasn’t blatant electioneering I don’t know what is.

An absolute disgrace.

In what way was it a disgrace..?

wenger2015 posted:

I am not affiliated with Labour or Conservative, but in my opinion I see no fault with TM speech. 

Under the circumstances, it was just what was needed, and to say 'enough is enough ,things will change', is exactly what we need to hear.

Her first part was fine ... things need to change.

But then she put forward a 4 point programme however amounted to a campaigning point on what her programme would be if she was elected.  It was not about the immediate (next few days) therefore was campaigning.

As for "enough is enough" ... Wasn't 9-11 enough?  Wasn't 7/7 enough?  Haven't the last 7 years when she was Home Secretary then Prime Minister been enough? Perhaps investigating terrorist funding could provide the answers - if the report is ever released or are its conclusions inconvenient?  Hasn't bombing ISIS all over the Middle East been enough? 

I said exactly the same to Mrs S after I saw the Prime Minister's statement.   I used to live in London, I love the city, our daughters live in Clapham/Tooting, I viisit every month for business and most I enjoy the cultural diversity and liberalism that it offers. My position has always been that no matter threat we should not allow that liberalism and diversity to be restricted.   

But, I can share the PM's frustration.  To have the overall responsibility for the Nation's security and to have these attrocities occur with such relative regularity must make her feel pretty helpless.  

Her timing may been awry but I agree her sentiments. 

Regards,

Lindsay

At this moment in time TM is the PM, we needed to hear ' enough is enough' we also needed to hear what the government plans to do about Terrorism on our home turf.

What would JC have said ' we plan to talk to the terrorists' ??? 

If it was my wife, daughter, son, that had just been killed,  I would want to know what is going to be done.....if anything we needed to hear more details of the 4 point plan...

wenger2015 posted:

At this moment in time TM is the PM, we needed to hear ' enough is enough' we also needed to hear what the government plans to do about Terrorism on our home turf.

Sorry but "what the governement plans" is electioneering. She is the PM, but she isn't an MP to be making promises. Any promises beyond June 9th is for the NEXT government. She was talking as if she had already won and it was her decision to make.

What would JC have said ' we plan to talk to the terrorists' ??? 

For someone who claims to be non-partisan ... you sound very much like a Tory party mouthpiece there!

JC and Labour Party proposed solution is there in their manifesto.  Increased spending on police, to provide the required resources to the security services, to allow internet monitoring but with judicial oversight and to carry out forigen policy with a softer hand so as not to inflame the problems in the Middle East.  

This is a day when the focus should be on those poor innocent victims of terrorism,  not bias about any political party.

Eloise posted:

wenger2015 posted:

At this moment in time TM is the PM, we needed to hear ' enough is enough' we also needed to hear what the government plans to do about Terrorism on our home turf.

Sorry but "what the governement plans" is electioneering. She is the PM, but she isn't an MP to be making promises. Any promises beyond June 9th is for the NEXT government. She was talking as if she had already won and it was her decision to make.

What would JC have said ' we plan to talk to the terrorists' ??? 

For someone who claims to be non-partisan ... you sound very much like a Tory party mouthpiece there!

JC and Labour Party proposed solution is there in their manifesto.  Increased spending on police, to provide the required resources to the security services, to allow internet monitoring but with judicial oversight and to carry out forigen policy with a softer hand so as not to inflame the problems in the Middle East.  

That won't stop them. 

wenger2015 posted:

This is a day when the focus should be on those poor innocent victims of terrorism,  not bias about any political party.

Pot... kettle... black!

wenger2015 posted:

This is a day when the focus should be on those poor innocent victims of terrorism,  not bias about any political party.

 

 

If you want do that. Post on the "London Under Attack Thread"

This is no place to discuss such things. This is a politcal thread.

Drewy posted:

Eloise posted:

JC and Labour Party proposed solution is there in their manifesto.  Increased spending on police, to provide the required resources to the security services, to allow internet monitoring but with judicial oversight and to carry out forigen policy with a softer hand so as not to inflame the problems in the Middle East.  

That won't stop them. 

What do you suggest would stop them?  Continually escalating the restrictions on their own won't.

There has to be a multi-faceted approach.  Target funding (which may include countries such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan); tighter monitoring but do it within the rule of law and with oversight; but you also need to tackle the injustices in the country.

But continually bombing and removing privacy isn't going to do it.

Eloise posted:

wenger2015 posted:

At this moment in time TM is the PM, we needed to hear ' enough is enough' we also needed to hear what the government plans to do about Terrorism on our home turf.

Sorry but "what the governement plans" is electioneering. She is the PM, but she isn't an MP to be making promises. Any promises beyond June 9th is for the NEXT government. She was talking as if she had already won and it was her decision to make.

What would JC have said ' we plan to talk to the terrorists' ??? 

For someone who claims to be non-partisan ... you sound very much like a Tory party mouthpiece there!

JC and Labour Party proposed solution is there in their manifesto.  Increased spending on police, to provide the required resources to the security services, to allow internet monitoring but with judicial oversight and to carry out forigen policy with a softer hand so as not to inflame the problems in the Middle East.  

I would take any promises from Labour and JC with a pinch of salt.  I think CB guilty pleasure is to have state funded communism with a National Credit Card. 

Eloise posted:

wenger2015 posted:

At this moment in time TM is the PM, we needed to hear ' enough is enough' we also needed to hear what the government plans to do about Terrorism on our home turf.

Sorry but "what the governement plans" is electioneering. She is the PM, but she isn't an MP to be making promises. Any promises beyond June 9th is for the NEXT government. She was talking as if she had already won and it was her decision to make.

What would JC have said ' we plan to talk to the terrorists' ??? 

For someone who claims to be non-partisan ... you sound very much like a Tory party mouthpiece there!

JC and Labour Party proposed solution is there in their manifesto.  Increased spending on police, to provide the required resources to the security services, to allow internet monitoring but with judicial oversight and to carry out forigen policy with a softer hand so as not to inflame the problems in the Middle East.  

Respectfully, I must disagree with the analysis that her speech was electioneering. The issues she highlighted are not new and, as has been said above, what the public surely want to know from her in her role as PM, is what the country can do to address matters. This is a here and now issue. It demanded a statement.

While she made 4 points, 3 were statements of fact/providing background. What do you want her to say - 'we'll hopefully wait a week and tell you what we plan to do'? Amber Rudd mentioned very similar things on Peston earlier today - and her demeanour was far from electioneering.

No more....it's a time to respect the fallen. That's where our thoughts should be.

Happy listener, extremely well summarised, +1

So TM is going to Stamp out extremism across “THE PUBLIC SECTOR”

 What does that mean.

Happy Listener posted:

 

The issues she highlighted are not new and, as has been said above, what the public surely want to know from her in her role as PM, is what the country can do to address matters. This is a here and now issue. It demanded a statement.

So, what is she going to do in the next four days.

Andy Burnam was asked about TM statement. He didn’t say it was electioneering, but said any measures taken should be done under cross party agreement. A far more measured and better suggestion.

Happy Listener posted:

Respectfully, I must disagree with the analysis that her speech was electioneering. 

Well I see it differently... we'll have to agree to differ.

fatcat posted:

So TM is going to Stamp out extremism across “THE PUBLIC SECTOR”

 What does that mean.

It's interesting isn't it how we interpret a message for our own needs? She was actually talking about 'tolerance of extremism' and said 'we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out across the public sector and across society'...

Do you not think that we as a society has blindly ignored this and other difficult issues pertaining to race and religion for fear of offending, or accusations of racism?

SKDriver posted:

fatcat posted:

So TM is going to Stamp out extremism across “THE PUBLIC SECTOR”

 What does that mean.

It's interesting isn't it how we interpret a message for our own needs? She was actually talking about 'tolerance of extremism' and said 'we need to become far more robust in identifying it and stamping it out across the public sector and across society'...

Do you not think that we as a society has blindly ignored this and other difficult issues pertaining to race and religion for fear of offending, or accusations of racism?

Thanks for that, but I already have the answer.

I posed the question to my daughter, she immediately emailed me back “I think she's talking about Jeremy Hunt”

Anyone brave enough to make an election prediction?

I'll have a punt, purely under the caveat that I have no certainty at all, just a series of hunches.

I reckon Tories returned with a majority similar to what they had prior to the GE.  Lib Dems still nowhere, UKIP vote collapsed, SNP roughly as before, maybe a couple of seats different.  Vote share for Labour up because of higher youth turnout, and Greens but only slightly, and neither enough/in the right areas to change numbers of seats much.  A stronger opposition in the next parliament despite not winning, because of the polarising effect of the GE drawing progressives closer to one another against the Tories, & Corbyn beating expectations.  The resultant more difficult ride for the govt will mean the Tory right maintains the increased influence it's gained over the past couple of years, and May's more centrist rhetoric will cease in favour of more 'get the job done' (vacuous) and 'tough decisions' (screwing people).  The tone of Brexit will remain adversarial, because the suggested plan (if it ever really existed) that with a bigger majority May would be able to resist the hardliners will have failed.

Not what I hope happens (I'm sure we all have various idea about what we hope for), but an attempt at a realistic guess.

The GE will have been a colossal waste of time & resources, and will have damaged the Brexit negotiations further.

The worse of all worlds, a lower Tory majority just enough to prevent us persuading JC to disappear into the red sun set but not low enough that we have an effective opposition - if that was possible with JC and DA.  More adversarial politics and another lengthy Tory term