Labour ?

 I didn't see that one coming,  I was very doubtful (disbelief) when the exit poll was announced at 10pm,  well thats me wrong twice in a night.  Outside the popular vote swinging so far to labour I was very surprised the seat gains with LD's,  didn't see that one either.    

The madness of our voting system shows that to be even stranger when you look at the vote share numbers    Con grew 5.5% share & lost 12 seats,  Labour grew 9.6% & gained 29 seats,  LD shrunk 0.5% & gained 4 seats.      SNP remain the 3rd largest party with 35 seats but only 977,569 votes compared to LD who are 4th largest party with 2,327,425 votes.     PR is long long overdue.       ohh is that me sounding like a LD ???   heaven forbid.   

TM doesn't need a formal coalition with the DUP ... all she needs is their agreement that they won't vote against her - initially on the Queens Speech bill and then a Budget.

Oh and yes there needs to be PR.

Eloise posted:

So how about this for an idea (likely unworkable I admit). A cross party EU negotiation / agreement. Aim for a softer Brexit: negotiating some free movement in exchange for good access to single market and customs union. In addition stay members of organisations such as nuclear power regulation and air travel. 

It would anger the hard line Conservative Brexiters; but could be supported by the moderate Remainers from other parties and would present a "Strong and Stable" negotiating position to the EU. 

Ive always considered cross party negotiations would eventually happen as its in everyones interests to get the best deal - apart from the other 27 who throw their toys, brandy bottles, etc out the cot at every opportunity.

Must be an option now.

NFG posted:

Eloise posted:

So how about this for an idea (likely unworkable I admit). A cross party EU negotiation / agreement. Aim for a softer Brexit: negotiating some free movement in exchange for good access to single market and customs union. In addition stay members of organisations such as nuclear power regulation and air travel. 

It would anger the hard line Conservative Brexiters; but could be supported by the moderate Remainers from other parties and would present a "Strong and Stable" negotiating position to the EU. 

Ive always considered cross party negotiations would eventually happen as its in everyones interests to get the best deal - apart from the other 27 who throw their toys, brandy bottles, etc out the cot at every opportunity.

Must be an option now.

The other 27 nations want a good deal too ... they just have points they will not compromise on.  The question is can there be enough common ground?

The problem with the idea of cross party consensus is that it requires time ... and the clock is ticking ... and thats the UK's government fault!

I think Corbyn and his team need to be congratulated for a good campaign. 

May needs to respond after having a good kick up the backside from the electorate for being so complacent. 

I have just watched TV footage of the new young labour voters celebrating at a rock festival.

It's good the younger population are voting, I just think it's a little concerning as it's on the back of a promise of free tuition fees?

It certainly doesn't seem sensible for May to resign, at the moment, no doubt after a period of stability she will get the boot, that is very much how it works I would imagine. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Brexit, as May sits down to negotiate with a sore backside?

I agree we need something like this, but regrettably, it's not likely to happen.

Unfortunately, from my point of view, we are going to leave the EU, and consequently it is in all of our interests that our political parties get together to form a working consensus that could conceivably be more acceptable to the majority of people in the UK and the EU, and could conceivably lead to a softer Brexit.

What our country needs is a less confrontational form of Government where the first past the post system allows parties to claim a mandate for extreme policies that are obviously not popular with the majority of the British people. The people of our country are more firmly entrenched and divided than ever in the recent past. I fear that there are too many egos on all sides to allow a cross-party consensus to flourish, but I sincerely hope that I am wrong.    

What we do not need is Theresa May taking her "no deal is better than a 'bad' deal" confrontational approach to the negotiations buoyed up by the support of the DUP. That would be disastrous for Northern Ireland in particular, and for the UK generally.

wenger2015 posted:

I think Corbyn and his team need to be congratulated for a good campaign. 

May needs to respond after having a good kick up the backside from the electorate for being so complacent. 

I have just watched TV footage of the new young labour voters celebrating at a rock festival.

It's good the younger population are voting, I just think it's a little concerning as it's on the back of a promise of free tuition fees?

It certainly doesn't seem sensible for May to resign, at the moment, no doubt after a period of stability she will get the boot, that is very much how it works I would imagine. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Brexit, as May sits down to negotiate with a sore backside?

A very magnanimous response to the election result, if I may say so.

Let's hope that we can now have a more inclusive and less confrontational approach to the Brexit negotiations than we might have had with a Theresa May landslide. Hopefully, two things will now happen:

Firstly, everyone on all sides of the debate will recognize that the Brexit negotiations must be geared to produce the best possible result for the majority of people in the UK, and secondly, that some of May's more contentious manifesto elements are now dead in the water.

Those of us who are pleasantly surprised and pleased with last night's election result need to recognize that the Conservative party still garnered the largest vote of any party, and that any triumphalism on our part will be counter productive and detrimental to the country over the next couple of years.     

There are more sensible people on this forum than in Parliament, i'm afraid.

Eloise's proposal (hope ? or Dream ?) is sensible. There was a marginal vote in favour of Brexit. There is no appetite for a Hard Brexit. There is no appetite for a dictatorial leader no matter how strong and stable (or weak & wobbly) she might be.

A cross-party consensus on Brexit should be just as possible to achieve in the UK Parliament as can be achieved by 27 Nations in the EU. But it does need leadership with awareness. I just don't know where such leadership can be found in the UK at the moment. Any Ideas ?

What's the score on the NHS, Dementia Tax, etc this morning ? or is that all forgotten about ?

Agree with Hmack's post above. Mine crossed.

Eloise posted:

So how about this for an idea (likely unworkable I admit). A cross party EU negotiation / agreement. Aim for a softer Brexit: negotiating some free movement in exchange for good access to single market and customs union. In addition stay members of organisations such as nuclear power regulation and air travel. 

It would anger the hard line Conservative Brexiters; but could be supported by the moderate Remainers from other parties and would present a "Strong and Stable" negotiating position to the EU. 

Sorry Eloise,

My post (2 posts above) was penned as a reply to this post of yours. I just forgot to include it in my reply.

Hmack posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I think Corbyn and his team need to be congratulated for a good campaign. 

May needs to respond after having a good kick up the backside from the electorate for being so complacent. 

I have just watched TV footage of the new young labour voters celebrating at a rock festival.

It's good the younger population are voting, I just think it's a little concerning as it's on the back of a promise of free tuition fees?

It certainly doesn't seem sensible for May to resign, at the moment, no doubt after a period of stability she will get the boot, that is very much how it works I would imagine. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Brexit, as May sits down to negotiate with a sore backside?

A very magnanimous response to the election result, if I may say so.

Let's hope that we can now have a more inclusive and less confrontational approach to the Brexit negotiations than we might have had with a Theresa May landslide. Hopefully, two things will now happen:

Firstly, everyone on all sides of the debate will recognize that the Brexit negotiations must be geared to produce the best possible result for the majority of people in the UK, and secondly, that some of May's more contentious manifesto elements are now dead in the water.

Those of us who are pleasantly surprised and pleased with last night's election result need to recognize that the Conservative party still garnered the largest vote of any party, and that any triumphalism on our part will be counter productive and detrimental to the country over the next couple of years.     

Couldn't agree more, especially with your last paragraph. Now is the time for Corbyn and the Labour Party to reach out to May, recognise they received most votes and won most seats (notwithstanding the original assumption was for much, much more), and offer co-operation in respect of all shared aspirations, and in particular over Brexit negotiations. I honestly believe that, were he to rip up the traditional rule book of adversarialism, his stock with the voters would increase exponentially, and would give the Socialists their best chance of a majority at the next election, be that in 6 months or 5 years. 

Timmo1341 posted:

Hmack posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I think Corbyn and his team need to be congratulated for a good campaign. 

May needs to respond after having a good kick up the backside from the electorate for being so complacent. 

I have just watched TV footage of the new young labour voters celebrating at a rock festival.

It's good the younger population are voting, I just think it's a little concerning as it's on the back of a promise of free tuition fees?

It certainly doesn't seem sensible for May to resign, at the moment, no doubt after a period of stability she will get the boot, that is very much how it works I would imagine. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Brexit, as May sits down to negotiate with a sore backside?

A very magnanimous response to the election result, if I may say so.

Let's hope that we can now have a more inclusive and less confrontational approach to the Brexit negotiations than we might have had with a Theresa May landslide. Hopefully, two things will now happen:

Firstly, everyone on all sides of the debate will recognize that the Brexit negotiations must be geared to produce the best possible result for the majority of people in the UK, and secondly, that some of May's more contentious manifesto elements are now dead in the water.

Those of us who are pleasantly surprised and pleased with last night's election result need to recognize that the Conservative party still garnered the largest vote of any party, and that any triumphalism on our part will be counter productive and detrimental to the country over the next couple of years.     

Couldn't agree more, especially with your last paragraph. Now is the time for Corbyn and the Labour Party to reach out to May, recognise they received most votes and won most seats (notwithstanding the original assumption was for much, much more), and offer co-operation in respect of all shared aspirations, and in particular over Brexit negotiations. I honestly believe that, were he to rip up the traditional rule book of adversarialism, his stock with the voters would increase exponentially, and would give the Socialists their best chance of a majority at the next election, be that in 6 months or 5 years. 

I agree with that sentiment. The priority now should be for parliament to focus on the best interests of the country i.e. getting Brexit right, rather than on seeking party advantage (which TM's decision to go for a snap election was about).  That would also give Labour the best chance of actually achieving power at the next election.  

I am very pleased to see that Theresa May’s Conservative Party failed to win an overall majority in the UK general election, leaving its hard-line policy on immigration and Brexit up in the air.

MDS posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Hmack posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I think Corbyn and his team need to be congratulated for a good campaign. 

May needs to respond after having a good kick up the backside from the electorate for being so complacent. 

I have just watched TV footage of the new young labour voters celebrating at a rock festival.

It's good the younger population are voting, I just think it's a little concerning as it's on the back of a promise of free tuition fees?

It certainly doesn't seem sensible for May to resign, at the moment, no doubt after a period of stability she will get the boot, that is very much how it works I would imagine. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with Brexit, as May sits down to negotiate with a sore backside?

A very magnanimous response to the election result, if I may say so.

Let's hope that we can now have a more inclusive and less confrontational approach to the Brexit negotiations than we might have had with a Theresa May landslide. Hopefully, two things will now happen:

Firstly, everyone on all sides of the debate will recognize that the Brexit negotiations must be geared to produce the best possible result for the majority of people in the UK, and secondly, that some of May's more contentious manifesto elements are now dead in the water.

Those of us who are pleasantly surprised and pleased with last night's election result need to recognize that the Conservative party still garnered the largest vote of any party, and that any triumphalism on our part will be counter productive and detrimental to the country over the next couple of years.     

Couldn't agree more, especially with your last paragraph. Now is the time for Corbyn and the Labour Party to reach out to May, recognise they received most votes and won most seats (notwithstanding the original assumption was for much, much more), and offer co-operation in respect of all shared aspirations, and in particular over Brexit negotiations. I honestly believe that, were he to rip up the traditional rule book of adversarialism, his stock with the voters would increase exponentially, and would give the Socialists their best chance of a majority at the next election, be that in 6 months or 5 years. 

I agree with that sentiment. The priority now should be for parliament to focus on the best interests of the country i.e. getting Brexit right, rather than on seeking party advantage (which TM's decision to go for a snap election was about).  That would also give Labour the best chance of actually achieving power at the next election.  

I couldn't agree more.

Given that TM has decided to stay (I don't see any real challenge in the near future) she will need the support of JC (and his Labour Party) with respect to Brexit, which IMHO remains the single most important issue before the country at the moment.

In order to secure that support from JC she will have to concede a number of very important internal ie National issues, such as the NHS and various punitive tax scenarios. This won't be a bad thing.

She will need the support of Labour, because the likes of John Redwood and Gove within her own party will continue to clamour for a Hard Brexit. If this 'Hard Brexit' head-count be as high as 50 Conservative MPs (which I consider it could be), she will need to be able to count on c.100 Labour MPs to move forward with Brexit.

She has about 10 days to sort this out. She needs to have a clear Brexit negotiating position, agreed with Labour and the vast majority of her own MPs. I don't anticipate this negotiating position will look too much like the one she had in mind 7 weeks ago.

Anything short of co-operation by Labour, or her Middle and Left leaning elements within her own party, should be considered almost treasonable  against the best interests of the country.

Ain't gonna happen. They can't co-operate and decisions by committee result in no decisions at all. I think we should tell TM to PO and give that wee Ruth lassie a go.

JamieWednesday posted:

Ain't gonna happen. They can't co-operate and decisions by committee result in no decisions at all. I think we should tell TM to PO and give that wee Ruth lassie a go.

Given TM's obvious lack of political acumen, I'd take "no decision at all" every day of the week.

Don Atkinson posted:

Given that TM has decided to stay (I don't see any real challenge in the near future) she will need the support of JC (and his Labour Party) with respect to Brexit, which IMHO remains the single most important issue before the country at the moment.

Unfortunately it appears that IM(NS)HO we have more intelligence and desire to see what's best for the country than the 650 who were elected yesterday put together.

She has about 10 days to sort this out. She needs to have a clear Brexit negotiating position, agreed with Labour and the vast majority of her own MPs. I don't anticipate this negotiating position will look too much like the one she had in mind 7 weeks ago.

She still has her Brexit strategy ... my way or the highway ... No Deal is better than a Bad Deal

Anything short of co-operation by Labour, or her Middle and Left leaning elements within her own party, should be considered almost treasonable  against the best interests of the country.

Fortunately we avoided voting in the (accused) terrorist sympathisers in the form of Corbyn and MacDonell ... only for May to invite the DUP into the front door.

How a supply an confidence deal with the DUP squares with being neutral in negotiations over Stormont power sharing I don't know...

JamieWednesday posted:

Ain't gonna happen. They can't co-operate and decisions by committee result in no decisions at all. I think we should tell TM to PO and give that wee Ruth lassie a go.

in other words, we need a dictator ?

OTOH, I agree it ain't gonna happen (TM in "bed" with JC), or at least it's incredibly unlikely to happen. As is giving that wee Ruth lassie a go.

JamieWednesday posted:

Ain't gonna happen. They can't co-operate and decisions by committee result in no decisions at all. I think we should tell TM to PO and give that wee Ruth lassie a go.

Im sure you're aware of this... but Ruth Davidson couldn't be leader of the Conservative Party as she isn't an MP (only an MSP). I'm not sure Ruth's relationship would go down with Theresa's proposed political partners either - she wants to marry a catholic ... and a female one at that!

Eloise posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Given that TM has decided to stay (I don't see any real challenge in the near future) she will need the support of JC (and his Labour Party) with respect to Brexit, which IMHO remains the single most important issue before the country at the moment.

Unfortunately it appears that IM(NS)HO we have more intelligence and desire to see what's best for the country than the 650 who were elected yesterday put together.I agree, and said so either in this thread or the other one !

She has about 10 days to sort this out. She needs to have a clear Brexit negotiating position, agreed with Labour and the vast majority of her own MPs. I don't anticipate this negotiating position will look too much like the one she had in mind 7 weeks ago.

She still has her Brexit strategy ... my way or the highway ... No Deal is better than a Bad Deal.I doubt if she can keep this stance up for long.

Anything short of co-operation by Labour, or her Middle and Left leaning elements within her own party, should be considered almost treasonable  against the best interests of the country.

Fortunately we avoided voting in the (accused) terrorist sympathisers in the form of Corbyn and MacDonell ... only for May to invite the DUP into the front door.I Know ! Perhaps she should try to persuade Gerry Adams in as well ?

How a supply an confidence deal with the DUP squares with being neutral in negotiations over Stormont power sharing I don't know...we live in strange times !! she doesn't have a reputation for making good decisions !

What a terrible election.  Badly timed, appalling campaign by the Tories, Liberals for the most part invisible and Labour for all they ran an excellent campaign given Jeremy Corbyn's record with his shadow cabinet I doubt he'd be capable of being PM. But then I'm just not of a socialist mind set.    But I'll say again none of the parties faced up to the key issue that of sound economics and restoring the public finances.  Alongside national security nothing is more important   

Regards,

Lindsay

What would be the position if TM resigned in the future.  Would the Conservative goverment elect a new leader?

In theory yes but there is no obvious heir apparent.   If the Conservatives had lost today by the same margin as Jeremy Corbyn she would have stood down.  

Romi posted:

What would be the position if TM resigned in the future.  Would the Conservative goverment elect a new leader?

I doubt she will resign,  most likely is the Conservative party will call for a leadership contest,  that might cause her to resign rather than join the contest.   Who will be the possible candidates ??   & who will win ??   I don't see an obvious front runner.

Good to see how well JC came out of it in spite of all bile poured on to him by Murdoch and his minions.

Also good to see the UKIP Little Englander onanists going down the toilet where they belong.

steve