Labour ?

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Eloise posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

UK needs a Macron.  

We had one... 20 years ago!

If you mean Tony Blair he only masqueraded as a liberal.  

I was very much astonished recently by Macron: the first President of France I've seen giving a presentation in English. His presentation was very hopeful and open minded.

Okay we've now moved on to the Lib Dems.  Tim Farron was never comfortable in the role but they weren't exactly spoilt for choice.   

If we're doing the rounds of all parties, I have to ask why the Monster Raving Looney party never win any seats? With a name like that I'd vote for them if they had a candidate in my area -and, after all, they couldn't do a worse job than the mainstrean parties, could they?

Amazingly the 'party' still appears at each election, and long after Screaming Lord Sutch passed on to, who knows, maybe better things.

MDS posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I felt the LDs had a very poor campaign and TF not my cup of tea. I felt awkward with his very strong religious views influencing his decisions If I'm honest. I have a very strong antipathy to those who might mix Faith and Politics, and he was struggling with that (fair play for accepting it too).

 

Me too. I'm not anti-faith but would very much prefer to see it kept outside of politics.  While I think the House of Lords provides a valuable balance (I know I'm probably in the minority in that view with many being hostile to the unelected Lords), I would still have the bishops removed asap. 

I feel like I'm trying to defend the indefensible here... but with respect to Tim Farron I think he did keep his religion out of politics, it was "everyone" else who was trying to make his religious views matter.  As he (tried to) said in many interviews, judge him in his record: because of his religion he was uncomfortable with homosexuality however excepting one vote that he was absent for, he has consistently voted for equality of gay rights.  His views on abortion were not exactly contravercial and again his voting record suggests he is pro-choice though would favour more counselling prior to a doctor "signing off" on an abortion.

With respect to the House of Lords I feel there needs to be something to provide continuity and balance, but the Lords has become unwieldy and it needs further reform.

Eloise posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

wenger2015 posted:

MDS posted:

Eloise posted:

So the next victim of the election... Tim Farron has resigned basically for being a Christian and following Christian values.

Now I disagree with his opinion, but will fight for his right to hold it so long as (and it hasn't) influenced his voting.

Farron had a very poor election campaign in my view.  

Maybe with his re-election as an MP this is an opportunity for Cable. I think he's much more credible in the eyes of many. 

Cable is more likely to be a caretaker leader, I would assume they would favour a younger more dynamic personality? Not that their are many options available?

True. But the leader doesn't have to be an MP.

I thought they did?  Jo Swinson is the "favourite".  I suspect Tim was looking to stand down as leader soon as he was wanting a "deputy" to be elected, then the resignation earlier forced his hand.

You might well be right Eloise.

I was thinking Nicola Sturgeon = Leader of the SNP (Angus Robertson was their "Top Man" in Parliament but not Leader of the Party)

Nigel Farage = Leader of UKIP, even when they had One MP

Innocent Bystander posted:

If we're doing the rounds of all parties, I have to ask why the Monster Raving Looney party never win any seats? With a name like that I'd vote for them if they had a candidate in my area -and, after all, they couldn't do a worse job than the mainstrean parties, could they?

Amazingly the 'party' still appears at each election, and long after Screaming Lord Sutch passed on to, who knows, maybe better things.

I might be wrong, but I believe that the Official Monster Raving Looney Party have stated that they will no longer be fielding candidates in any future election... a sad day!

As for them as a party... here are 7 things that they (for previous incarnations of the party) campaigned for which have become law (presumably on no part due to OMRLP) ...

1. 24 hour licensing laws.
2. Lowering voting age to 18.
3. Abolition of dog licences.
4. Legalisation of commercial radio.
5. Pedestrianisation of Carnaby Street
6. Passports for pets
7. Abolition of the 11 Plus exam.

... take that UKIP... you only got one policy adapted!

Eloise posted:

 

... take that UKIP... you only got one policy adapted!

Yes and look what carnage that has created!!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Eloise posted:

... take that UKIP... you only got one policy adapted!

Yes and look what carnage that has created!!

So very true...

Eloise posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

If we're doing the rounds of all parties, I have to ask why the Monster Raving Looney party never win any seats? With a name like that I'd vote for them if they had a candidate in my area -and, after all, they couldn't do a worse job than the mainstrean parties, could they?

Amazingly the 'party' still appears at each election, and long after Screaming Lord Sutch passed on to, who knows, maybe better things.

I might be wrong, but I believe that the Official Monster Raving Looney Party have stated that they will no longer be fielding candidates in any future election... a sad day!

 

A while back I read somewhere that CAMRA is going to move on to other things, saying that with hundreds of good quality real ales available everywhere in the UK their campaign had been successfully achieved. Maybe with the current state of UK politics the Monster Raving Loony party has reached a similar conclusion i.e. the politicians of mainstream parties have taken over their role? 

if anyone one looks to uk  they would say is that the best you've got

audio1946 posted:

if anyone one looks to uk  they would say is that the best you've got

Yes, and I find that depressing.  

Timmo1341 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

dave marshall posted:

HH

Hungryhalibut posted:

dave marshall posted:

That's the second person on here, in as many days, who has referred to those who voted for Brexit as "idiots".

You really do need to wind your necks in, chaps. 

Why? Economically Brexit makes no sense. It's purely down to ideology. Brexit may happen, but it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it. Global warming is happening but that doesn't mean everyone needs to like it. 

I would defend to the hilt your right to your opinion on the whole Brexit question, particularly where your views differ from my own.

However, calling others who may disagree with your point of view, "idiots", betrays a rather less charitable attitude, I feel.

Dave, you are quite correct. Calling supporters of Brexit 'idiots' was inappropriate and I apologise unreservedly. 

I think they are wrong though, but if we go ahead - and I hope and suspect we won't - we won't really know for some years.

Already Brexit has hit the £ and led to inflation of 2.9% and registration of EU nurses, when we don't have enough of our own, has dropped by 96% apparently. Very few supporters of Brexit can give a positive reason, other than keeping out the immigrants that we need to run our economy of stopping European laws that keep our own Government in check. Maximum working hours? Statutory leave? Clean beaches? All European legislation. Why do we want to get rid of it? 

 

It's time to 'fess up! I am one of those 'idiots' who voted to leave the EU. Without rehashing all the arguments and reasoning, suffice it to say that were there to be another referendum tomorrow my vote would be to remain. I am now aware of far more reasons to stay than were highlighted by the Remain camp during the campaign. I was probably guilty of not seeking out the information myself, but I undoubtedly allowed myself to be taken in by some of the Leave camp's arguments.

I still have some grave misgivings about ever closer political union, but agree we could have probably fought that from within.

I now believe that the 'softer' the Brexit we have, the better.

Eternally hopeful!!

Tim

I don't think you are alone Timmo. Quite a few of my friends who voted to leave now consider they made a mistake. Their reasons vary.

TM seems to think she can continue with a hard Brexit. I have my doubts. Hammond is pressing her to give far more consideration to business and the economy. He is in a strong position, but will need the support of a fair number of determined like-minded MPs.

Next Monday might provide some insight of the way forward.

Don Atkinson posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

dave marshall posted:

HH

Hungryhalibut posted:

dave marshall posted:

That's the second person on here, in as many days, who has referred to those who voted for Brexit as "idiots".

You really do need to wind your necks in, chaps. 

Why? Economically Brexit makes no sense. It's purely down to ideology. Brexit may happen, but it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it. Global warming is happening but that doesn't mean everyone needs to like it. 

I would defend to the hilt your right to your opinion on the whole Brexit question, particularly where your views differ from my own.

However, calling others who may disagree with your point of view, "idiots", betrays a rather less charitable attitude, I feel.

Dave, you are quite correct. Calling supporters of Brexit 'idiots' was inappropriate and I apologise unreservedly. 

I think they are wrong though, but if we go ahead - and I hope and suspect we won't - we won't really know for some years.

Already Brexit has hit the £ and led to inflation of 2.9% and registration of EU nurses, when we don't have enough of our own, has dropped by 96% apparently. Very few supporters of Brexit can give a positive reason, other than keeping out the immigrants that we need to run our economy of stopping European laws that keep our own Government in check. Maximum working hours? Statutory leave? Clean beaches? All European legislation. Why do we want to get rid of it? 

 

It's time to 'fess up! I am one of those 'idiots' who voted to leave the EU. Without rehashing all the arguments and reasoning, suffice it to say that were there to be another referendum tomorrow my vote would be to remain. I am now aware of far more reasons to stay than were highlighted by the Remain camp during the campaign. I was probably guilty of not seeking out the information myself, but I undoubtedly allowed myself to be taken in by some of the Leave camp's arguments.

I still have some grave misgivings about ever closer political union, but agree we could have probably fought that from within.

I now believe that the 'softer' the Brexit we have, the better.

Eternally hopeful!!

Tim

I don't think you are alone Timmo. Quite a few of my friends who voted to leave now consider they made a mistake. Their reasons vary.

TM seems to think she can continue with a hard Brexit. I have my doubts. Hammond is pressing her to give far more consideration to business and the economy. He is in a strong position, but will need the support of a fair number of determined like-minded MPs.

Next Monday might provide some insight of the way forward.

Timmo, you've seen the light - you're one of us now. You're not an "idiot" any more! I'm so pleased ...

Eloise posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

fatcat posted:

Or, we could keep the tories in power, go for a hard brexit and end up with the biggest economic catastrophe since 1945.

Be sure of one thing Jeremy Corbyn  supports Brexit because he favours an independent socialist republic.  He's always been clear on that.  The only reason constitutional reform was absence from the Labour manifesto was because he knew it would be deeply unpopular.

Or to put it another way... he is the democratic leader of a Democratic Party who believes in democracy so will compromise for the good of the party / country. 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that's very, very far from the case as will be demonstrated as events unfold over the coming months.  

Don Atkinson posted:

TM seems to think she can continue with a hard Brexit.

After her pitiful reaction (hiding from K&C residents) to the Grenfell fire tragedy, I doubt May can continue with anything (including being PM), let alone a 'hard' Brexit.

Kevin-W posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

TM seems to think she can continue with a hard Brexit.

After her pitiful reaction (hiding from K&C residents) to the Grenfell fire tragedy, I doubt May can continue with anything (including being PM), let alone a 'hard' Brexit.

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

The leader's self-celebrated lack of higher education, unchanging views, years  as a nonentity in the political wilderness, building  a mass extra- parliamentary movement, accusations of anti-semitism, exploiting of a fire for political ends, calling for million-person rallies of the faithful in the nation's capital to bring down a precarious coalition government.  Is Corbyn and McDonnell's  "Labour" Party ringing  any bells yet?  I'm sure though that the leader's  vegetarianism is just a coincidence...(as is the shared  commitment to "socialism")...

wenger2015 posted:

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

Is this actually a serious post? I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

The Queen and Prince William have visited, Corbyn has visited, so has Khan. But May took narly two days to make a private visit to the emergency services (NOT the survivors/victims). It wasn't until this afternoon, when she was smuggled into a church

This proves May's ineptitude and her contempt for, and fear of, the plebs. She's supposed to be leader of the country, but has yet again showed both her lack of leadership and of guts.

1. Kevin-W posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

Is this actually a serious post? I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

The Queen and Prince William have visited, Corbyn has visited, so has Khan. But May took narly two days to make a private visit to the emergency services (NOT the survivors/victims). It wasn't until this afternoon, when she was smuggled into a church

This proves May's ineptitude and her contempt for, and fear of, the plebs. She's supposed to be leader of the country, but has yet again showed both her lack of leadership and of guts.

Maybe she cares more about running the country , setting up a public enquiry and allocating £5 million in immediate aid, rather than posing  for Momentum social media photo opportunities?

I live in London too, but I wonder who's actually stoking the anger?

Norton posted:

I'm sure though that the leader's  vegetarianism is just a coincidence...(as is the shared  commitment to "socialism")...

A snide insinuation that Corbyn is like Hitler. Haha! That's brilliant, and once again Godwin's law holds true.

Good luck getting it to stick, though.

If it sticks I wouldn't describe that as good luck, for all our sakes.

You probably see a twinkly old gentleman with an allotment who makes Jam.. I see something different.

Norton posted:

If it sticks I wouldn't describe that as good luck, for all our sakes.

You probably see a twinkly old gentleman with an allotment who makes Jam.. I see something different.

Clearly so. In terms of anti-democratic authoritarianism, May's had the game sewn up to the point that it's looked like Labour weren't even trying. I'd hate to see their report card from the school of tyrantism.

Still, if it's that much of a matter of perspective, I suppose it's a personal issue for each of us and our respective therapists.

Norton posted:

1. Kevin-W posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

Is this actually a serious post? I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

The Queen and Prince William have visited, Corbyn has visited, so has Khan. But May took narly two days to make a private visit to the emergency services (NOT the survivors/victims). It wasn't until this afternoon, when she was smuggled into a church

This proves May's ineptitude and her contempt for, and fear of, the plebs. She's supposed to be leader of the country, but has yet again showed both her lack of leadership and of guts.

Maybe she cares more about running the country , setting up a public enquiry and allocating £5 million in immediate aid, rather than posing  for Momentum social media photo opportunities?

I live in London too, but I wonder who's actually stoking the anger?

TV coverage showed locals commenting unfavourably about TM not meeting those affected by this disaster and contrasting that with HRH doing just that today.  That's not a comment on politics. If the Head of State takes the time and thinks it appropriate to meet directly some of those affected I don't think she will have done so because of the social media opportunities.   

Hope Theresa is planning her brexit negotiations rather than toeing the social media line.

Who told Corbyn to get round there? Bet he was relishing the opportunity to stick the political boot in.

Get the cladding ripped off all the other buildings asap and just sort the bloody situation. Shouldn't be hard to achieve. 

The fundamental problem is the plan of that tower type. One stair that is not separated by a fire enclosure. Firemen and smoke rushing up meeting hundreds rushing down...a disaster waiting to happen. Then they clad it with flammable cladding with a thin air gap all the way up separating it from the existing fabric!

A disgrace in our time.

G