Labour ?

Kevin-W posted:

Mind you, the RCP seemed to hate the WRP, Militant, Labour, the BCP, CPB and the 'bourgeois entryists' of the SWP more than they did Thatcher and the Tories!

Reminiscent of the Judea's People's Front and their counterparts 

Drewy posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Just seen the Newsnight i/v with May. The woman is an absolute joke. She is totally unfit for office. If the Tory party has an ounce of sense it will ditch this toxic bitch by  Monday.

Why is she a bitch? Believe it or not I'm not her biggest fan but I think calling her a bitch is a bit off. 

My mother in law is a bitch. Long story.....

Your spouse is half canine?

(Sorry, I couldn't resist that!  )

Kevin-W posted:

ken c posted:

very balanced post Bruce ... hope TM and JC will read it... its for their and country's good.

enjoy

ken

Won't happen Ken. Neither of them would come on this forum, they don't have hi-fis and have no interest in acquiring one.

Jezza's down with da kids and only listens to grime on his mobile, while May cannot decide what she's going to listen to so ends up listening to nothing at all...

She certainly doesn't listen to advice so there's no reason she'd listen to music. She likes films though, and as I understand it she has Dead Woman Walking on order. 

Kevin-W posted:

Hi Ian, I was involved with the far Left in my young days for quite a while too. What led to my break with what was then known as the RCP (1978-1997) in 1988/3 was their insistence that Thatcher's response to the Argentinian junta's invasion of the Falkands was a grossly egregious act.

The Argentinian junta was a fascist (genuinely fascist - you could disappear in the middle of the night for voicing dissent) military dictatorship that cynically sought to exploit long-running (if low-level) resentment over the status of the Falkands to shore up its crumbling authority. Unfortunately Thatch was made of sterner stuff and decided to send a task force to ensure the wishes of the Falkland islanders wishes to remain British were respected.

I completely agreed with her (for about the only time). I believe in self-determination, and if a group of people want to be part of a particular nation (or not) then they are entitled to do that. The RCP heirarchy's argument that Thatch was somehow worse than a fascist dictatorship made no sense to me (and I despised Thatcher).

So I left, and have never belonged to a political organisation again, preferring to plough a lonely furrow on the libertarian left...

Mind you, the RCP seemed to hate the WRP, Militant, Labour, the BCP, CPB and the 'bourgeois entryists' of the SWP more than they did Thatcher and the Tories!

While at University we had our fair share of these organisation - most of their members seemed hardly capable of putting more than two sentences together without a quote from Marx.  However when they quoted Marx at me I almost invariably quoted Marx back at them - except the Marx I chose to quote wasn't Karl, it was Groucho!

I find it amazing how Internet forums and various other social media can rapidly descend into vitriol where individuals feel that they are able to throw mud and personal abuse, apparently immune to any culpability from their actions.

Some of the recent posts on here are contemptible, and the argument regarding 'free speech' simply does not wash. 

GraemeH posted:

Two means of escape from fire/smoke protected stairwells mandatory here. Relying on one fire exit and entrance with electrical circuits to operate fans is all very well...in theory.

G

A lot of thought, effort and cost go into making today’s buildings safe, but, we are where we are. We have 40 year old apartment blocks with one stairwell.

The council seem to be getting a lot of stick concerning the refub, but is it justified?

From what I can gather they,

Installed a centralised heating system. More efficient, lower heating bills and lower building Co2 emissions.

Insulated the outside of the building. Lower heating bills and lower building Co2 emissions.

Installed stairwell pressurisation fans. In normal circumstances a definite positive safety feature.

The flammable cladding caused the whole building to catch light, which probably wasn’t there fault. That would be the fault of the architects, consultants or whoever draughts the regulations.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Kevin-W posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay regardless of competence if I had referred to a work colleague in the same manner I would have been dismissed - and rightly so.  

Completely different things. Are you going to dismiss or punish millions of people because they've been less than complimentary about the Dear Leader? Where are we - North Korea?

There has been a long tradition in this country (going back centuries) of abusing our elected officials, it's part of the job and it's a part of democracy.

There is a difference between deference and courtesy.  The latter in my opinion should be afforded to all 

I quite agree ... referring to TM as a female dog is nothing about her personality and just misogynistic language.  Criticise and even call her name (Maybot comes to mind) based on her actions, even her character flaws, but out and out insults have no place.

Kevin-W posted:

Drewy posted:

You read too much social media and take in too much of what the news channels are putting out. 

Keep digging and carry on. The more you continue with this stuff, the more desperate you appear.

Carry on with your personal insults and bad language then. It's you who appears desperate. 

I don't think a hifi forum is the place to try and stir up hatred. 

Lets keep it a sensible discussion 

Eloise posted:

I quite agree ... referring to TM as a female dog is nothing about her personality and just misogynistic language.  Criticise and even call her name (Maybot comes to mind) based on her actions, even her character flaws, but out and out insults have no place.

 

I’m not sure it’s misogynistic language. Last Friday, a FEMALE Tory voting work colleague referred to her as a ”stupid bitch”

 Nobody contradicted her.

fatcat posted:

Eloise posted:

I quite agree ... referring to TM as a female dog is nothing about her personality and just misogynistic language.  Criticise and even call her name (Maybot comes to mind) based on her actions, even her character flaws, but out and out insults have no place.

 

I’m not sure it’s misogynistic language. Last Friday, a FEMALE Tory voting work colleague referred to her as a ”stupid bitch”

 Nobody contradicted her.

Women can be misogynists as well; occurring less frequently than in men, but equally unforgivable.  I know this from experience.

Sitting on my balcony in sunny Greece reading this forum about the fire and its consequenties for Engeland. I hope there will no social unrest and that the people who lived in this building will be helped fast. That schould be the most important thing. Watching this from outside England it seems England is not in the best shape. Its big housing problem, the difference between the classes and its politics. So many problems and now the Brexit. Discussions are always good but schould stay polite. We can only solve the problems if we listen to each other and try to find answers for the problems in England and ofcourse the same problems we have in all of Europe. For me something what bothers me te most are not the politcal parties but the so called famous people visiting the site of the terrible fire like Adele, son of Beckham and other so called famous people. Again looking from outside in its looks like there is no real real indepent news anymore. Its looks England is burning if you read fore example the Guardian, mail and others. Could somebody advice of a good indepent news outlet i could watch the news from England.

Gr

C

Kevin-W posted:

Christopher_M posted:

A crime in our post Diana field of flowers at Kensington Palace society. We have to emote, and we have to be seen to emote. Private thoughts of empathy or saddness are not enough.

You're exaggerating Chris.

The Queen turned up, and did not emote (she never does) but obviously her dignified presence proved comforting to many. Why couldn't May have turned up sooner and done the same?

I hope it's not too much of an exaggeration to say that I think the Grenfell Tower disaster might be Britain's Hurricane Katrina/ New Orleans moment.

CP62 posted:

Sitting on my balcony in sunny Greece reading this forum about the fire and its consequenties for Engeland. I hope there will no social unrest and that the people who lived in this building will be helped fast. That schould be the most important thing. Watching this from outside England it seems England is not in the best shape. Its big housing problem, the difference between the classes and its politics. So many problems and now the Brexit. Discussions are always good but schould stay polite. We can only solve the problems if we listen to each other and try to find answers for the problems in England and ofcourse the same problems we have in all of Europe. For me something what bothers me te most are not the politcal parties but the so called famous people visiting the site of the terrible fire like Adele, son of Beckham and other so called famous people. Again looking from outside in its looks like there is no real real indepent news anymore. Its looks England is burning if you read fore example the Guardian, mail and others. Could somebody advice of a good indepent news outlet i could watch the news from England.

Gr

C

 

 

It's not that bad here in the UK.

We on this forum and even more so our news papers and television news programmes, like to paint a grim picture.

For sure, this past month has seen some pretty depressing events - Manchester, London Bridge/Borough-Market and now Grenfell Tower. We also have disagreement about Brexit and even Jean Claude Junckers ( that delightful Statesman from Luxemberg, who commands and runs the EU) has made some unjustifyable harsh words about the state of the UK. But we will overcome these issues.

As for reliable, unbised news outlets ? ............  there aren't any. There is no such thing. Sorry !

The 2018 Queens speech has been dropped from the parliamentary plans meaning that between now and eventual Brexit there will be no further detail of the government's plans.  Another "attempt" to bypass parliamentary oversight?

Buckingham Palace rooms sit empty as Grenfell survivors are shipped out of London.

Queen dances on Jo Cox's grave as it is party, party, party.

Send a few hashtags flying round, invite some militant republicans down to North Kensington, have BBC, Sky and ITV reporters ask leading questions; should stir things up and achieve some Queen hate - good for the breaking news whores and others who feed on such prey.

Kevin-W posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

Is this actually a serious post? I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

The Queen and Prince William have visited, Corbyn has visited, so has Khan. But May took narly two days to make a private visit to the emergency services (NOT the survivors/victims). It wasn't until this afternoon, when she was smuggled into a church

This proves May's ineptitude and her contempt for, and fear of, the plebs. She's supposed to be leader of the country, but has yet again showed both her lack of leadership and of guts.

What about all the 'hate brigade' which will come out and will use this tragedy for their political own gain..?

Romi posted:

Kevin-W posted:

wenger2015 posted:

I don't agree with the political point scoring over a tragedy,  why May is being condemned beggars believe...

Is this actually a serious post? I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

The Queen and Prince William have visited, Corbyn has visited, so has Khan. But May took narly two days to make a private visit to the emergency services (NOT the survivors/victims). It wasn't until this afternoon, when she was smuggled into a church

This proves May's ineptitude and her contempt for, and fear of, the plebs. She's supposed to be leader of the country, but has yet again showed both her lack of leadership and of guts.

What about all the 'hate brigade' which will come out and will use this tragedy for their political own gain..?

Like the poor, they will always be with us.

Which 'hate brigade' is that Romi? Things seem remarkably calm in London, all things considered, and especially after the incident earlier today.

The only people I've seen trying to score political points off the Grenfell tragedy are the usual suspects in the press - The Mail, The Graun etc - and the SWP, who would turn up at the opening of an envelope if they felt they could exploit it.

A friend of mine, upon seeing some SWP banners at various demos, said: "The SWP are to demos what WH Smith are to railway stations, aren't they? No one likes them, no one wants them, their name is mud, yet there they always are, right there, as if they have some ancient right to be there."

Too true.

SKDriver posted:

I find it amazing how Internet forums and various other social media can rapidly descend into vitriol where individuals feel that they are able to throw mud and personal abuse, apparently immune to any culpability from their actions.

Some of the recent posts on here are contemptible, and the argument regarding 'free speech' simply does not wash. 

Do you get giddy up there, on your moral high horse?

Drewy posted:

Carry on with your personal insults and bad language then. It's you who appears desperate. 

I don't think a hifi forum is the place to try and stir up hatred. 

Lets keep it a sensible discussion 

Given that you and your little buddy Norton have been stirring it up with your dissembling and porkies about 'stirring up hatred' these past few days I hardly think you're in much of a position to lecture anyone about sensible discussion, are you?

And if you find this thread or posts on it that objectionable, why not ignore it, go elsewhere - the Hi-fi Corner, say - or report it to the mods, who will act if they feel there has been genuine infringement of the rules, or indeed incitement - which is of course against the law.

Kevin-W posted:

Which 'hate brigade' is that Romi? Things seem remarkably calm in London, all things considered, and especially after the incident earlier today.

The only people I've seen trying to score political points off the Grenfell tragedy are the usual suspects in the press - The Mail, The Graun etc - and the SWP, who would turn up at the opening of an envelope if they felt they could exploit it.

A friend of mine, upon seeing some SWP banners at various demos, said: "The SWP are to demos what WH Smith are to railway stations, aren't they? No one likes them, no one wants them, their name is mud, yet there they always are, right there, as if they have some ancient right to be there."

Too true.

I live in London and the fury on the streets - not just in West London - is palpable.

I am jusy quoting you.  Fury with tragedy is a natural response but in these situations there invariably be groups who will come out and deliberately  exarcebate the situations for their own ends which differs to the people who are naturally angry that this tragedy was allowed to happen.

Romi posted:

  Fury with tragedy is a natural response but in these situations there invariably be groups who will come out and deliberately  exarcebate the situations for their own ends which differs to the people who are naturally angry that this tragedy was allowed to happen.

Yes, I understand, but who are these people, these exacerbators to whom you refer? SWP? Class War? The far Right?

Kevin-W posted:

SKDriver posted:

I find it amazing how Internet forums and various other social media can rapidly descend into vitriol where individuals feel that they are able to throw mud and personal abuse, apparently immune to any culpability from their actions.

Some of the recent posts on here are contemptible, and the argument regarding 'free speech' simply does not wash. 

Do you get giddy up there, on your moral high horse?

The irony...

Kevin-W posted:

Drewy posted:

Carry on with your personal insults and bad language then. It's you who appears desperate. 

I don't think a hifi forum is the place to try and stir up hatred. 

Lets keep it a sensible discussion 

Given that you and your little buddy Norton have been stirring it up with your dissembling and porkies about 'stirring up hatred' these past few days I hardly think you're in much of a position to lecture anyone about sensible discussion, are you?

And if you find this thread or posts on it that objectionable, why not ignore it, go elsewhere - the Hi-fi Corner, say - or report it to the mods, who will act if they feel there has been genuine infringement of the rules, or indeed incitement - which is of course against the law.

Little buddy Norton? What the hell are you on about? Do you speak to people like this face to face? I've just read through all the posts that Norton and myself have written and really can't see where you're coming from. You shout down anyone who doesn't share your views and when some of us decide to stand up to you you just get nastier. 

If you don't like what we write why don't YOU just ignore it and go elsewhere. 

I was just reading the meagre news feed on a plane and it claimed that at least 4 government ministers had strenuously been made aware of the deficiencies in fire safety at numerous blocks such as the one on everyone's minds. Yet they'd all basically ignored the warnings.

Has there been any further reporting on this at home? Much as political capitalisation on such events is repellent, there has to be some major political fallout if it's true.