Dynaudio Focus 260 with XS2

HI Amused,you may recognize me from the Dyn thread,looks like you are getting similar advice here...some say it is not enough amp,some say it is,you know my thoughts,but as far as room treatments go,i would definitely look at putting a big thick rug in front of the speakers,it looks awfully bright in there.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

 

No with respect I am sorry to say you are mis-informed, Dynaudio is anything but bright. 

I love that expression 'with respect', which of course really means 'you're talking complete bollocks'. 

 

So now we know what you mean by it!!!

That's what it means, and it's why I never use the expression. 

that is clearly not what I meant... netiquette is complicated on the Naim forum 

No quarter posted:

HI Amused,you may recognize me from the Dyn thread,looks like you are getting similar advice here...some say it is not enough amp,some say it is,you know my thoughts,but as far as room treatments go,i would definitely look at putting a big thick rug in front of the speakers,it looks awfully bright in there.

Hi mate, good to see you! These are AutoCad renderings, there is a carpet of course

analogmusic posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

 

No with respect I am sorry to say you are mis-informed, Dynaudio is anything but bright. 

I love that expression 'with respect', which of course really means 'you're talking complete bollocks'. 

 

So now we know what you mean by it!!!

That's what it means, and it's why I never use the expression. 

that is clearly not what I meant... netiquette is complicated on the Naim forum 

As a phrase it can mean 'sorry, I think you're wrong', and in extreme cases it can mean what HH suggested. Hopefully more often it is the former, and certainly when I say it I usually mean "I think you're wrong, though I respect that is your view".

that is what I mean too. If I wanted to say what HH means, I would use different kind of words...

Amused posted:

No quarter posted:

HI Amused,you may recognize me from the Dyn thread,looks like you are getting similar advice here...some say it is not enough amp,some say it is,you know my thoughts,but as far as room treatments go,i would definitely look at putting a big thick rug in front of the speakers,it looks awfully bright in there.

Hi mate, good to see you! These are AutoCad renderings, there is a carpet of course

Ok, that was my first reaction, too, the pic looking as if it would be extremely bright, acoustically. Any soft furnishings - big sofas, drapes/curtains etc? 

Dimensions don't need to be exact, but is it square or near square, or rectangular etc? Do the speakers fire 'down' or across the room if rectangular? 

There is a big leather sofa opposite the speakers, and a lightweight curtain on the windows to the right.

My architect is almost done with the room basis, I will upload it in a minute. The room is smaller than I thought

Ok guys, here it is. The architect is a very lovely chap, he finished this in no time! Now I want to see comments/suggestions from the experts!

analogmusic posted:

oh dear Lindsay more confusion?

I've tried focus 260 with DAC V1/100, 202/200, 282/250 and 552/500.

As I said, the confidence line of Dynaudio is the hi-end one.

I am way over-amped and over-sourced with focus 260, I need a Confidence C2, with my rig.

Obviously you think the same of your rig, as you don't listen to your contours and "upgraded" to Kudos S20 

 

If I recall an early review I read of the 260 it commented that they were demanding of amplification and the reviewer had matched them with a Rotel 1095 which is a beast of a thing probably more akin to a NAP 500 in terms of output.  

Turning to my own recent change this is all recorded elsewhere far from being "over-amped"! I was seeking a speaker that better integrated into our lounge.   The Dynas were recommended for 1m rear space the best I could offer was .5. In the event I ended up with a speaker that was slightly smaller and actually less demanding on the amps.  

Regards,

Lindsay

It all looks fine to me. You just need an amplifier with decent power to stick up the speakers. 

If the budget is limited, one option would be to get the xs2 and accept that things will not be perfect but better. (How many of us have perfect systems or can simply throw more money in until it's right straight away)?    Further down the line a pre and/or power can be added to the xs as budget allows,  particularly if purchased used. This may be a route to a suitable end point especially if the speakers are the ones you want and can work in your room. 

That's fine, but if you'll never get to the amplification required, might it be better to get shot of the speakers now? There's no point buying a Ferrari if you can't afford to insure it. 

This is the point HH random buying without an end game is full of pitfalls. 

Quite so. 

analogmusic posted:

 

 

Because These are not hi-end speakers. These are only one range above the excite entry level Dynaudio speakers 

for hi-end sound that you need to go to Dynaudio Confidence range.

 

 

 

Been following this thread for a while, would like to add a couple of my own personal observations.

Firstly, with all due respect I would have to disagree with the above statement.  I guess you never heard The Contour line???? The Focus line is definitely a high end speaker, as is the Excite line, which by the way is not the entry line, that would be the Emit M series.

That's like calling theNaiti 5si not a high end product. Which it most certainly is at it's price point. The same would apply to the mentioned Dynaudio products at their particular price point.

Anybody who has listened to the entry  Emit line surely would call them a high end speaker,  so, whatever that means to you, obviously it must mean something different to me.

My personal opinion is that the Focus 260 really needs a beter amp than the XS 2 to sound of it's best, but if that's all the Naim amp you could afford, it will be fine, it's just that it's not ideal. I honestly would rather have any Naim amp than any other of the competitor's amps.

Also, I have never heard a Dynaudio speaker sound overly bright. They have one of the highest quality and finest sounding tweeters available. It makes some highly regarded  tweeters sound course and grainy when listened to side by side and in comparison.

I believe Dynaudio speakers, any Dynaudio line, whether the entry Emit series to the Temptation series are absolutely world class speakers. They are some of the most transparent, see through, and quick souding speakers available.

The new Contour line is absolutely a magical sounding speaker!

Just my own opinion....

The Strat (Fender) posted:

This is the point HH random buying without an end game is full of pitfalls. 

Except this wasn't random, 'the deal was too good to miss'.

Loads of us have done it, the trick is to know when to cut and run.

C.

I bought some Neats once that were too good to miss. They were a pile of shite. That's why they were cheap. 

badlands posted:

analogmusic posted:

 

 

Because These are not hi-end speakers. These are only one range above the excite entry level Dynaudio speakers 

for hi-end sound that you need to go to Dynaudio Confidence range.

 

 

 

Been following this thread for a while, would like to add a couple of my own personal observations.

Firstly, with all due respect I would have to disagree with the above statement.  I guess you never heard The Countour line???? The Focus line is definitely a high end speaker, as is the Excite line, which by the way is not the entry line, that would be the Emit M series.

That's like calling theNaiti 5si not a high end product. Which it most certainly is at it's price point. The same would apply to the mentioned Dynaudio products at their particular price point.

Anybody who has listened to the entry  Emit line surely would call them a high end speaker,  so, whatever that means to you, obviously it must mean something different to me.

My personal opinion is that the Focus 260 really needs a beter amp than the XS 2 to sound of it's best, but if that's all the Naim amp you could afford, it will be fine, it's just that it's not ideal. I honestly would rather have any Naim amp than any other of the competitor's amps.

Also, I have never heard a Dynaudio speaker sound overly bright. They have one of the highest quality and finest sounding tweeters available. It makes some highly regarded  tweeters sound course and grainy when listened to side by side and in comparison.

I believe Dynaudio speakers, any Dynaudio line, whether the entry Emit series to the Temptation series are absolutely world class speakers. They are some of the most transparent, see through, and quick souding speakers available.

The new Contour line is absolutely a magical sounding speaker!

Just my own opinion....

Thank you for your comment. I never said the 260s were bright, I said the midrange was empty with the Arcam. 

Looks like the dominating opinion is that the XS2 is not good enough for the 260s. 

I don't believe you said they were bright, I was addressing another member who never actually owned a Dynaudio speaker.

badlands posted:

I don't believe you said they were bright, I was addressing another member who never actually owned a Dynaudio speaker.

It was I who originally raised a question about brightness, having some vague recollection that I had heard a comment to that effect some time previously when someone had a problem, but I was certainly not asserting that to be true, and others have already said that is not the case.

If the speakers are known to normally be OK, then the question is what is causing the midrange to sound thin, one possibility could be effect of the room on lows and highs, which is where rooms have most effect, though that would not explain the 'glass like' quality.

Just had a skim read of this thread and it may be informative to recall the logical argument of the "source first" hierarchy that has been generally accepted by audiophiles the world over. Objectively, a set of high end speakers may initially sound clear and detailed at low volumes as the speaker is reproducing what is is fed as accurately (To the input) as it can.  However, turning up the volume with a stretched amp (and even worse if in the case of an underspecced source) will reveal limitations in the amp in terms of peak power output, transient response, and stability of components.  Think of the power stage as a reservoir  - a low/under powered amp (i.e. small reservoir) will empty quickly when a surge of water(aka current) is required by the loud passage in the music.  If this surge is prolonged, the amp will be working at limit down, run out of puff, and that's when the music loses focus, definition, muddling, and dynamic range.  Now imagine that you have all the water behind the Hoover Dam feeding your speakers (aka higher wattage amp AND current delivery). On the presumption the pre-section can control the source input and pre-out, the power amp will not have an issue with fast deep transients because it has enough welly behind it "on tap" (excuse the pun). So a super-duper power rated power amp is not all about going loud but, rather, loud and controlled, so long as it can deliver the current which drives the speaker units. So, the point about a (say) 500 or Statement P1 is not just about watts/channel on paper but the ability to deliver into a nominal impedance but in reality is actually dynamic and can drop by a half or even quarter).  So when the speaker impedance (aka resistance in ohms) say drops in half, the power amp needs to deliver the commensurate (double) power immediately. It is this "capacity" that differentiates well designed amps and retail amps.  Too much to mention here but there are the negativities associated with a revealing speaker on the quality of the source and anything that lies between.  Given the above, one could make a reasonably logical argument for the relative performance of each component Hi-Fi and which, in combination, would make more enjoyable music!

Amused posted:

Thank you for your comment. I never said the 260s were bright, I said the midrange was empty with the Arcam. 

Looks like the dominating opinion is that the XS2 is not good enough for the 260s. 

you need to consider how many people  actually own focus 260, and have experience with Nait XS, and Chord Mojo.

badlands posted:

Been following this thread for a while, would like to add a couple of my own personal observations.

Firstly, with all due respect I would have to disagree with the above statement.  I guess you never heard The Contour line???? The Focus line is definitely a high end speaker, as is the Excite line, which by the way is not the entry line, that would be the Emit M series.

That's like calling theNaiti 5si not a high end product. Which it most certainly is at it's price point. The same would apply to the mentioned Dynaudio products at their particular price point.

Anybody who has listened to the entry  Emit line surely would call them a high end speaker,  so, whatever that means to you, obviously it must mean something different to me.

My personal opinion is that the Focus 260 really needs a beter amp than the XS 2 to sound of it's best, but if that's all the Naim amp you could afford, it will be fine, it's just that it's not ideal. I honestly would rather have any Naim amp than any other of the competitor's amps.

Also, I have never heard a Dynaudio speaker sound overly bright. They have one of the highest quality and finest sounding tweeters available. It makes some highly regarded  tweeters sound course and grainy when listened to side by side and in comparison.

I believe Dynaudio speakers, any Dynaudio line, whether the entry Emit series to the Temptation series are absolutely world class speakers. They are some of the most transparent, see through, and quick souding speakers available.

The new Contour line is absolutely a magical sounding speaker!

Just my own opinion....

Hi Badlands, I always value your opinion when it comes to speakers.

Yes I probably used the wrong words, what I mean is the premium speakers from Dynaudio use their legendary Esotar 2 tweeter, one of the best in the world, if not the very best one, and as you know previously only confidence and higher range had this tweeter (along with some exceptions like focus 380 which was reflected in their higher prices for this premium and refined tweeter)

now the new contour range - (which I have not heard) has the esotar 2 tweeter.

Still, what I mean is the focus is not comparable to the Confidence range which has esotar 2, better cabinet, much better crossover, and also the Dynaudio Directivity Control (DDC), which controls the soundstage, and really works.

The problem with confidence range is that it is very revealing, and so Chord Dave sounded sublime,. and the Hugo TT sounded crude and one dimensional next to Dave, whereas on my focus 260, there isn't this big gap with the same Naim amplifier Nap 250.2

I am not sure why. Maybe the focus 260 is fine..

The dealer that demonstrated Chord Dave, TT and 172/250.2 with C2 used Nordost cables, so before making any changes, I need to try superlumina cables to see if NACA5 and my basic interconnects are holding back my system (I am pretty sure they are)

That is what I mean by hi-end, even Dynaudio would say, the confidence is much superior to Focus?

I heard the Contour s3.4 next to the Focus 260 and wasn't that impressed. The Focus was more balanced and sweeter sounding to my ears. Also better looking with its minimalistic design and piano black finish. But it all comes down to personal taste, doesn't it?

Apart from that, the Contour's demand much larger space in order to shine and would never work in my small room.

analogmusic posted:

Amused posted:

Thank you for your comment. I never said the 260s were bright, I said the midrange was empty with the Arcam. 

Looks like the dominating opinion is that the XS2 is not good enough for the 260s. 

you need to consider how many people  actually own focus 260, and have experience with Nait XS, and Chord Mojo.

Yeah, apparently nobody. You use the Mojo, right? And you also had the XS2, am I correct?