Dynaudio Focus 260 with XS2

I heard my name... Here is my experience. 

Dynaudio Excite X16s/Naim Nait 5i-2 sounded great. Upgraded to 160s after I auditioned the Focus 260s. 

Dynaudio Focus 160s and Nait 5i-2 sounded shrill and shouty. Upgraded the 5i to an XS (60 watt)

160/XS - was a good combo but I kept bottoming out the 160s and traded in for the 260. 

260/XS combo was very nice. The XS presented midrange much better then the 5i and with the neutrality of the focus line it was a great match. The bass wasn't as deep as when I had the Simaudio i3 SE in my house. However the Sim didn't have the midrange or prat( as we all call it) of the XS. I was willing to sacrifice some deeper bass extension for the greater good of the music. However the XS held its ground very well. 

I was looking to buy a CD5i when my dealer suggested the Uniti2. I was highly skeptical the U2 could be asked to power everything the way the XS could due to it having all the added processing like many HT receivers. The dealer allowed me to discuss my fears with a couple clients who also owned a U2. One who really sold me that this unit would be a worthy investment was a guy who was powering his Harbeth 40s. How I didn't know anything about UPnP streaming and tidal wasn't a thing yet. After a few phone calls with the dealer and assurances that if I wasn't happy I'd get a SN; I accepted the change from the XS to the U2. 

The U2 like the XS in my 15x25x20 ft room, has performed way above my expectations. Crystal clear clean mids and highs even when pushing 95+ dbs at 12 ft away, bass that can shake the floors upstairs. The U2 has been able to provide a deeper depth to the bass, but I partially attribute that to the XS being built to be very tube sounding oriented.

All of my Naim amps use the AV Gain feature and are part of a HT system. My system is dual purpose. At no time while playing a movie or playing music, do I find that the U2 or XS ever ran out of power or let me down. 

Because the 260s are very neutral the XS is a great match, it's midrange push would provide the OP a better match to what he's looking for IME. My U2 is not going anywhere unless maybe I go for a Uniti Star or Nova. 

And for those that are discussing Dynaudio, the Focus line uses a tweeter (T380) that's the most closely related to the Esotar2  (T330D) than in anyother Dynaudio speaker. It's extremely resolving and transparent. The woofers were built to be more sensitive to the incoming power signal from the amp. These cant be compared to previous Dyns. They're their own speaker. They're the most neutral speaker Dyns designed since the Special 25s. 

Nait xs 1 which had 60 watts

Thank you Callas for posting, maybe it is not well known on this forum, but your reputation on the Dynaudio is well known as being one of the experts on Dynaudio speakers. I stand corrected on the tweeter of the focus 260.

Which source were you using with the Nait XS?

so to the OP, there you have it, as I said it's upto you to take into consideration opinions of those who actually owned Nait and Focus 260, or try to buy another brand, but I can guarantee you, Naim and Dynaudio is a combo that you will never regret.

Callas,

No disputing your evidence but a friend of mine had to move on Dyna 160s because his XS2 just couldn't deliver in the mids or bass.  But for the record again - I love Dynas.  As you say though the 260 is clearly different.

Regards,

Lindsay

and what source and speaker cable was your friend using. no point generalizing without the full picture. As you said, we aren't discussing the focus 160?

You love Dynas, but moved on to Kudos and say it is a better speaker 

analogmusic posted:

Thank you Callas for posting, maybe it is not well known on this forum, but your reputation on the Dynaudio is well known as being one of the experts on Dynaudio speakers. I stand corrected on the tweeter of the focus 260.

Which source were you using with the Nait XS?

so to the OP, there you have it, as I said it's upto you to take into consideration opinions of those who actually owned Nait and Focus 260, or try to buy another brand, but I can guarantee you, Naim and Dynaudio is a combo that you will never regret.

There is a slight air of desperation here, perhaps. Probably all that can be concluded is that the XS will get noise out of the speakers, and that a bigger amp would get more noise. But without audition any Naim is still a shot in the dark. 

As I said : those who own focus 260 and then everyone else 

Ah, but what if the sound Callas likes is not one that appeals to Amused? How can Amused rely on Callas's opinion? 

Callas01 posted:

I heard my name... Here is my experience. 

Dynaudio Excite X16s/Naim Nait 5i-2 sounded great. Upgraded to 160s after I auditioned the Focus 260s. 

Dynaudio Focus 160s and Nait 5i-2 sounded shrill and shouty. Upgraded the 5i to an XS (60 watt)

160/XS - was a good combo but I kept bottoming out the 160s and traded in for the 260. 

260/XS combo was very nice. The XS presented midrange much better then the 5i and with the neutrality of the focus line it was a great match. The bass wasn't as deep as when I had the Simaudio i3 SE in my house. However the Sim didn't have the midrange or prat( as we all call it) of the XS. I was willing to sacrifice some deeper bass extension for the greater good of the music. However the XS held its ground very well. 

I was looking to buy a CD5i when my dealer suggested the Uniti2. I was highly skeptical the U2 could be asked to power everything the way the XS could due to it having all the added processing like many HT receivers. The dealer allowed me to discuss my fears with a couple clients who also owned a U2. One who really sold me that this unit would be a worthy investment was a guy who was powering his Harbeth 40s. How I didn't know anything about UPnP streaming and tidal wasn't a thing yet. After a few phone calls with the dealer and assurances that if I wasn't happy I'd get a SN; I accepted the change from the XS to the U2. 

The U2 like the XS in my 15x25x20 ft room, has performed way above my expectations. Crystal clear clean mids and highs even when pushing 95+ dbs at 12 ft away, bass that can shake the floors upstairs. The U2 has been able to provide a deeper depth to the bass, but I partially attribute that to the XS being built to be very tube sounding oriented.

All of my Naim amps use the AV Gain feature and are part of a HT system. My system is dual purpose. At no time while playing a movie or playing music, do I find that the U2 or XS ever ran out of power or let me down. 

Because the 260s are very neutral the XS is a great match, it's midrange push would provide the OP a better match to what he's looking for IME. My U2 is not going anywhere unless maybe I go for a Uniti Star or Nova. 

And for those that are discussing Dynaudio, the Focus line uses a tweeter (T380) that's the most closely related to the Esotar2  (T330D) than in anyother Dynaudio speaker. It's extremely resolving and transparent. The woofers were built to be more sensitive to the incoming power signal from the amp. These cant be compared to previous Dyns. They're their own speaker. They're the most neutral speaker Dyns designed since the Special 25s. 

Hi Callas01, thank you for your post. This is the first hand experience I was looking for!

Since you used the 260s with the less powerful XS, am I right to assume that the new XS2 (the 70w one) would be closer to the performance of the Unity 2 which is also rated at 70w? I just looked at the Unity 2 and it's price is similar to the one of the SN2. However, the Unity has a DAC which is inferior to the Chord Mojo as it's only a 24bit/192 one, meaning I wouldn't be able to play my DSD collection on it. The Mojo, on the other hand, is rated at 32bit/768, and plays DSD files perfectly!

My idea is to get the XS2 for amplification, and to get the new Oppo UDP-203 to use as transport. The Oppo does everything the Unity does, and more - it plays SACDs, DVD-audio, and has a new 32bit AKM DAC. It can also play DSD files via network or USB. On top of all that, the Oppo is a 4K UHD player that can play both HDR10 and Dolby Vision, and my TV also supports both formats.

What say you?

So HH should amused rely on opinions of those who never heard the speaker ?

Of course not. He should get the dealer to get the amp in, take it home and try it, and then decide. Or simply take a punt and be prepared to sell at a loss if it doesn't work out. Friends of mine drive PMC GB1i speakers with a Nait 5i. They love it but to me it sounds totally gutless. They are the owners and would give a very positive opinion to a potential buyer. But would the buyer agree? Maybe. Maybe not. 

Not everyone has access to the kind of dealer facilities offered in UK.

Did you consider that maybe the dealer does not have a Nait XS in stock and may have to order it, and this is only done on 50 % payment basis i.e. Amused has to pay 50 %.

I did. Hence my third sentence. 

analogmusic posted:

and what source and speaker cable was your friend using. no point generalizing without the full picture. As you said, we aren't discussing the focus 160?

You love Dynas, but moved on to Kudos and say it is a better speaker 

 

Analogue - notwithstanding your smiley read my thread - generalizing yeah right - I have NEVER said Kudos are a better speaker I said I thought my room tolerated the Dynas whereas the S20S  integrated better.   Yes after extensive home demo and now 7 weeks of ownership they are in my opinion a considerably better listen.  You can also read the comments of the Polar Bear who I deliberately invited down to gain a different opinion.  But In other environments the Dynas may well have been the better speaker.  Who knows?  But late last year I heard the new Dyna Contours with a NDS/555/252/300 in a large demo room - excellent.  Hence my continued liking for the brand.

As to my friend for your information his system is Rega RP6/Dyna 10x5/Stageline S/CD5XS/Naca 5. Incredulous (almost) by the way that you choose  After he switched to the Neats it was altogether more relaxed, more coherent, better resolution (in a way suprising because Dynas are revealing), and far better control of the bass, and most of all sweeter treble.

Back to the OP - I don't think he should hang (too) much on the stats.   The XS2 may be a better listen than the Arcam - Naim amps are generally more entertaining in my opinion but the Arcam on paper has a greater output  - but I still feel he needs a proper demo.   That this is seemingly not possible is a matter or regret and dare I say risk.

Regards,

Lindsay

Amused, forgive me if i have missed it in your posts, but when you heard the 260s before you bought them, what did the rest of the system consist of, power amp but also source and preamp, and how similar was the room compared to yours?

You presumably liked them then, and that tells you they can sound good to your ears, so maybe to achieve them sounding good you need to analyse the differences between that audition and what you have. That may help you decide if indeed the amp could be the culprit, and what alternative is likely to fix, or if it could be other factors.

Again, this is something you may have said and I've forgotten, I assume your dealer doesn't stock stock those speakers, so you can't take your amp in and compare with whatever other amps he has in stock. But does he have any other Dynaudios that may have similar midrange performance, as that is whatbyou clearly need to focus on at the moment?

risk is part of life, everytime I drive my car it is a risk

Buying a Nait XS, ain't no risk at all 

probably in my humble experience the VFM Naim amp to buy, before one gets to 282/250 DR level.

Listen - pedantry here - but if the OP takes a punt on a £1.5K amp and it doesn't work to his liking that's financial risk.  

And I think the XS2 is an excellent amp and no doubt I'd like the Focus 260 as I liked the 1.8s I just wouldn't pair the 2 together.  

Amused - Might the solution be one of the bigger Arcam's?

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Amused - Might the solution be one of the bigger Arcam's?

Regards,

Lindsay

Innocent Bystander posted:

Amused, forgive me if i have missed it in your posts, but when you heard the 260s before you bought them, what did the rest of the system consist of, power amp but also source and preamp, and how similar was the room compared to yours?

You presumably liked them then, and that tells you they can sound good to your ears, so maybe to achieve them sounding good you need to analyse the differences between that audition and what you have. That may help you decide if indeed the amp could be the culprit, and what alternative is likely to fix, or if it could be other factors.

Again, this is something you may have said and I've forgotten, I assume your dealer doesn't stock stock those speakers, so you can't take your amp in and compare with whatever other amps he has in stock. But does he have any other Dynaudios that may have similar midrange performance, as that is whatbyou clearly need to focus on at the moment?

If I recall correctly, they were paired with Electrocompaniet, which is even more expensive than the Nait XS2, or even Supernait for that matter. My dealer doesn't stock this brand.

Another Arcam is not an option, I don't feel the synergy there. I don't think it's power what's missing with the A29, it's how the Arcam gets along with the Dyn's. 

The new Chord cables will arrive on Friday, so I will report back. I am upgrading from a Chameleon Silver Plus to a Epic Analogue Tuned Aray, and speaker cable wise, from Audioquest FLX to Chord Epic Reference. 

Another thing worth mentioning, I had the Van Damme LCOFC 6mm speaker cable for a while, and that cable improved the midrange and bass but ruined the highs (it took away the silkiness of the tweeter), and produced a slightly darker image. So I put the FLX back. I think the Chord will make a significant improvement though, especially with the XS2 if I do decide to go down that route.

What I've read in other threads is that Chord cables get along fantastically with Naim gear, and many people change their Naim cables for Chord ones. I would like to hear your experiences as well. From my personal experience with Chord's lower lines - I can say I like them very much, they extract the finest of details and really make the Dyn's sing! I also tested some Audioquest and Van Den Hul interconnects, and put the Chord back immediately. That's why I'm upgrading.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Listen - pedantry here - but if the OP takes a punt on a £1.5K amp and it doesn't work to his liking that's financial risk.  

And I think the XS2 is an excellent amp and no doubt I'd like the Focus 260 as I liked the 1.8s I just wouldn't pair the 2 together.  

I'm just amazed and amused how you continue to post never having owned a focus 260.

I'm out of this thread. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Callas,

No disputing your evidence but a friend of mine had to move on Dyna 160s because his XS2 just couldn't deliver in the mids or bass.  But for the record again - I love Dynas.  As you say though the 260 is clearly different.

Regards,

Lindsay

The 160s have been my least favorite speaker I've owned. They're harder to drive then the 260s IMO as well. 

Well I'm a Chord user and that will be fine but cables aren't the problem here.  They will fine-tune your system not reform it. And as you say it's not only about power but about what the pre-amp delivers in terms of the sound stage and that finer detail in the middle which you have identified.  Now the pre-stage in the XS2 is no doubt very good but it's not a 282 derivative like the SN2.  When I was trialling various amp configurations when I had my 1.8s the dealer first demo'd me a 152/200 pairing and it was in some ways better than my then Arcam A85 but it wasn't until we tried a 202 and ultimately 282 that I heard what I think that you are really - grip, authority, drive, resolution.  That is why I believe (only my opinion) that he SN2 is the minimum you need.  As I've said whilst I am not a source first advocate I am minded towards the Halibut's view as opposed to Analogue that you are "over-speakered" whether it's with your Arcam or the XS2.

Regards,

Lindsay

analogmusic posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Listen - pedantry here - but if the OP takes a punt on a £1.5K amp and it doesn't work to his liking that's financial risk.  

And I think the XS2 is an excellent amp and no doubt I'd like the Focus 260 as I liked the 1.8s I just wouldn't pair the 2 together.  

I'm just amazed and amused how you continue to post never having owned a focus 260.

I'm out of this thread. 

Well - I did some reading last night the 260 is clearly a derivative of the 220 and 1.8 (which I owned for 13 years) before that and used for a couple of years with an Arcam amp.  And the reviews I read all talked of the need for strong/powerful/amplification.  True speakers have become more efficient as have amps but I still maintain that an XS2/260 would be considerably less than an ideal partner.  Others can disagree.  I'm sure all our contributions have been appreciated....................................urm yes I'm sure!!!!!!!

so by reading about the 260, you know more about it, than Callas01 who ran it with a Nait XS 1 and says it is good.

am I correct to assume, you never owned and lived with a Nait XS either?

Amused posted:

Callas01 posted:

I heard my name... Here is my experience. 

Dynaudio Excite X16s/Naim Nait 5i-2 sounded great. Upgraded to 160s after I auditioned the Focus 260s. 

Dynaudio Focus 160s and Nait 5i-2 sounded shrill and shouty. Upgraded the 5i to an XS (60 watt)

160/XS - was a good combo but I kept bottoming out the 160s and traded in for the 260. 

260/XS combo was very nice. The XS presented midrange much better then the 5i and with the neutrality of the focus line it was a great match. The bass wasn't as deep as when I had the Simaudio i3 SE in my house. However the Sim didn't have the midrange or prat( as we all call it) of the XS. I was willing to sacrifice some deeper bass extension for the greater good of the music. However the XS held its ground very well. 

I was looking to buy a CD5i when my dealer suggested the Uniti2. I was highly skeptical the U2 could be asked to power everything the way the XS could due to it having all the added processing like many HT receivers. The dealer allowed me to discuss my fears with a couple clients who also owned a U2. One who really sold me that this unit would be a worthy investment was a guy who was powering his Harbeth 40s. How I didn't know anything about UPnP streaming and tidal wasn't a thing yet. After a few phone calls with the dealer and assurances that if I wasn't happy I'd get a SN; I accepted the change from the XS to the U2. 

The U2 like the XS in my 15x25x20 ft room, has performed way above my expectations. Crystal clear clean mids and highs even when pushing 95+ dbs at 12 ft away, bass that can shake the floors upstairs. The U2 has been able to provide a deeper depth to the bass, but I partially attribute that to the XS being built to be very tube sounding oriented.

All of my Naim amps use the AV Gain feature and are part of a HT system. My system is dual purpose. At no time while playing a movie or playing music, do I find that the U2 or XS ever ran out of power or let me down. 

Because the 260s are very neutral the XS is a great match, it's midrange push would provide the OP a better match to what he's looking for IME. My U2 is not going anywhere unless maybe I go for a Uniti Star or Nova. 

And for those that are discussing Dynaudio, the Focus line uses a tweeter (T380) that's the most closely related to the Esotar2  (T330D) than in anyother Dynaudio speaker. It's extremely resolving and transparent. The woofers were built to be more sensitive to the incoming power signal from the amp. These cant be compared to previous Dyns. They're their own speaker. They're the most neutral speaker Dyns designed since the Special 25s. 

Hi Callas01, thank you for your post. This is the first hand experience I was looking for!

Since you used the 260s with the less powerful XS, am I right to assume that the new XS2 (the 70w one) would be closer to the performance of the Unity 2 which is also rated at 70w? I just looked at the Unity 2 and it's price is similar to the one of the SN2. However, the Unity has a DAC which is inferior to the Chord Mojo as it's only a 24bit/192 one, meaning I wouldn't be able to play my DSD collection on it. The Mojo, on the other hand, is rated at 32bit/768, and plays DSD files perfectly!

My idea is to get the XS2 for amplification, and to get the new Oppo UDP-203 to use as transport. The Oppo does everything the Unity does, and more - it plays SACDs, DVD-audio, and has a new 32bit AKM DAC. It can also play DSD files via network or USB. On top of all that, the Oppo is a 4K UHD player that can play both HDR10 and Dolby Vision, and my TV also supports both formats.

What say you?

There's always the Uniti Star, which has all the DSD & 32/768 processing and hdmi input. However I stream tidal about 99% of the time and for what the U2 does and the fact that when I bought it, 24/192 was king of the cage resolution except for SACD (because DSD downloads were only being talked about like MQA is right now) it was/is perfect for my use.