Dynaudio Focus 260 with XS2

Analogue  thought you were finished 

I have caveated everything "in my opinion",  have not claimed I'm right, have not discounted Callas 101s view, have just said that in my opinion (reasonably well informed) that the pairing is unlikely to work well,  but over and above the OP requires an extensive demo.    Naim amps (of any designation) may turn out not to be to liking.

No I haven't owned a Nait XS but have listened extensively with both Dyn 160 and Neat speakers. I repeat it's a great amp but like many hi-fi components needs to be well matched.

the OP has a "get out of Jail" card with the Chord Mojo.

The Mojo, like the Hugo, has quite an impressive soundstage, and also good bass performance.

And I recently learnt, mid range Naim preamps like 172 or 202 don't really constrain a big soundstage that originates from the source. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

analogmusic posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Listen - pedantry here - but if the OP takes a punt on a £1.5K amp and it doesn't work to his liking that's financial risk.  

And I think the XS2 is an excellent amp and no doubt I'd like the Focus 260 as I liked the 1.8s I just wouldn't pair the 2 together.  

I'm just amazed and amused how you continue to post never having owned a focus 260.

I'm out of this thread. 

Well - I did some reading last night the 260 is clearly a derivative of the 220 and 1.8 (which I owned for 13 years) before that and used for a couple of years with an Arcam amp.  And the reviews I read all talked of the need for strong/powerful/amplification.  True speakers have become more efficient as have amps but I still maintain that an XS2/260 would be considerably less than an ideal partner.  Others can disagree.  I'm sure all our contributions have been appreciated....................................urm yes I'm sure!!!!!!!

 

In what ways? Because Otto from Dynaudio has said that the 260 (entire focus range) was not a revised 220, but a complete overhaul in woofers, tweeters and crossover. He even admitted that the Focus tweeter was better then what was found on the Contour 3.4s and it's not called an esotar but in many ways it could be as it's an esotar based tweeter with an Esotec+ back chamber. (T330D + D280 = T380). And so far to my knowledge has been the only line to use this specific tweeter. Cabinet bracing and dampening material vastly improves the newer focus from the older. And as I said the woofers were re-engineered to be faster and more responsive to the incoming signs from the amp, tech they took from the revised Confidence line. The contour S line maintained a better cabinet and better woofer and crossover.  

Callas01, thanks for the clarification regarding the Focus range. So your final opinion is that I can get away with the XS2? Certainly not as good as I would with the more expensive SN2 or pre/power combo, but taking into account the size of my room, I reckon it would be sufficient enough, perhaps even with a used power supply upgrade (say the flatcap) at a later stage.

Analogmusic, you seem to be supporting that view as well, especially as you have experience with the Chord Mojo. 

Others (who haven't heard the 260s - XS combo) think I would be better off with something from the higher range of Naim products.

Has OP heard the 5si? I would say it and the SN2 get the most positive press and accolades by offering that naim boogie while the XS2 seems to be the quiet ackward middle child. He should also audition the 5si.

Amused posted:

Callas01, thanks for the clarification regarding the Focus range. So your final opinion is that I can get away with the XS2? Certainly not as good as I would with the more expensive SN2 or pre/power combo, but taking into account the size of my room, I reckon it would be sufficient enough, perhaps even with a used power supply upgrade (say the flatcap) at a later stage.

Analogmusic, you seem to be supporting that view as well, especially as you have experience with the Chord Mojo. 

Others (who haven't heard the 260s - XS combo) think I would be better off with something from the higher range of Naim products.

I have experience with Nait XS1 (used to own), Focus 260 (I own), and Mojo (which I use 3 hours a day at least)

Amused posted:

Callas01, thanks for the clarification regarding the Focus range. So your final opinion is that I can get away with the XS2? Certainly not as good as I would with the more expensive SN2 or pre/power combo, but taking into account the size of my room, I reckon it would be sufficient enough, perhaps even with a used power supply upgrade (say the flatcap) at a later stage.

Analogmusic, you seem to be supporting that view as well, especially as you have experience with the Chord Mojo. 

Others (who haven't heard the 260s - XS combo) think I would be better off with something from the higher range of Naim products.

These guys are right, the higher up the line you go, you will get better results. But do I feel you need to spend $14k to get a great musical experience from the 260s? NO! The XS I'm sure will be a very good amp for you. 

Now, the 260s mid-range is very neutral. It's not softened to give you that warm pleasant sound most audiophile people crave. They're going to give you honesty. I can't say this is everyone's sound they crave. For me I love live recordings and so the 260s have a sound that give me a great live performance of recorded material. 

me too, playing metallica on Vinyl through my amps on 260 captures the energy of the band very well. 

I agree with Callas01, it's not an audiophile speaker (that softens the midrage), but Dynaudio values transparency very highly, and they were the pioneers of phase accurate crossovers and fast drivers that everyone else now emulates.... Remember that Dynaudio got there first a long time ago  

But keeping in mind that Focal and Naim are now one company, and having heard Electra and Sopra range a few days ago, I might be tempted if I were in the market, by their electra 1028 be.... but that's another story, another thread and another day.

Analog

Why is it that you yourself use a 282 and 250 dr with your 260's,when an Xs is all you need...?

DynFan160 posted:

Has OP heard the 5si? I would say it and the SN2 get the most positive press and accolades by offering that naim boogie while the XS2 seems to be the quiet ackward middle child. He should also audition the 5si.

When I had the 5i and the 160s I had a home demo with the 260s because of the issue of the 160s bottoming out and the brightness I felt from the 160s. I felt the 5i drove the 260s better then it drove the 160s. However the nice midrange of the XS was a good accompaniment to the focus speakers and I kept the 160s for about 6 more months using the XS before I changed to the 260s. The XS definitely had more drive and didn't strain who pushing thru a movies action sequence. It was a nice setup from the 5i. 

analogmusic posted:

me too, playing metallica on Vinyl through my amps on 260 captures the energy of the band very well. 

I agree with Callas01, it's not an audiophile speaker (that softens the midrage), but Dynaudio values transparency very highly, and they were the pioneers of phase accurate crossovers and fast drivers that everyone else now emulates.... Remember that Dynaudio got there first a long time ago  

But keeping in mind that Focal and Naim are now one company, and having heard Electra and Sopra range a few days ago, I might be tempted if I were in the market, by their electra 1028 be.... but that's another story, another thread and another day.

The only focal line I like is the Aria. The rest are good but don't impress me enough to change. 

No quarter posted:

Analog

Why is it that you yourself use a 282 and 250 dr with your 260's,when an Xs is all you need...?

oh that's an easy one to answer.

If focus 260 were my end game speaker, I would not have bought 282/250 DR.

My endgame speaker is a speaker like Confidence C2 or C4, Focal Sopra3, or Sonus Faber Amati Futura (probably not as we have a cat - anyone who owns hi end SF speakers will understand), which electronics like 282/250DR can drive.

Focus 260 is really very good, it offers superb value for money, but Dynaudio make better speakers (but cost $$$$$)

I stopped spending money on cars (I never plan to buy a brand new car again) as I find the journey in hi-fi much more fun, if that makes sense to the Naim forum members (I know it does)

I would also add the new B&W 800 series D3 to my end game shortlist.

What is great about these times is the performance levels we are getting, and as one of the biggest UK Naim and B&W dealers told me, the new 800 D3 series is good for the while hi-fi industry as it generates interest in hi-fi !

I guess the same applies to the new Contour range from Dynaudio and the new Sopra range from Focal.

I am with you Analog on the cars,mine is 12 years old,and paid for,still gets me to work...I also have owned my share of new vehicles,now my monthly payments go to my Audio dealer,lol.

Guys,

I am thinking of another option as well, and users familiar with Chord DAC's might be able to help. I've read that many people use the Chord HUGO as a preamp, connected directly to a power amp. They say the sound quality is much better than when using a preamp in between. I guess the Mojo can be used the same way, right? The main disadvantage here is the lack of remote volume control for both the Mojo and the Hugo.

However, the new Hugo 2 (just launched) is advertised as having remote control, and I think this is done via smartphone. I would need someone to confirm this.

So, say I trade in the Mojo for a Hugo 2, and get a NAP200 instead of the XS2, and than feed the Hugo 2 directly to the power amp? I believe this is the road to much better SQ than by feeding the Mojo into an XS2 integrated? More expensive too.

what say you?

Hugo, et al. direct into a Naim power amp isn't everyone's cup of tea. So again, unfortunately having a listen and deciding yourself is the best way to go.

Amused posted:

what say you?

Shoot me now. Dynaudio and Chord debate combined into one glorious and seemingly endless debate. Just buy a bloody Supernait 2. 

The Supernait 2 is out of stock. Nait XS2 or NAP200 are the only options.

Nap200 doesn't have RCA inputs so you have to find a DIN to RCA cable. I know there's a few out there but it adds an extra step. 

Amused posted:

Guys,

I am thinking of another option as well, and users familiar with Chord DAC's might be able to help. I've read that many people use the Chord HUGO as a preamp, connected directly to a power amp. They say the sound quality is much better than when using a preamp in between. I guess the Mojo can be used the same way, right? The main disadvantage here is the lack of remote volume control for both the Mojo and the Hugo.

However, the new Hugo 2 (just launched) is advertised as having remote control, and I think this is done via smartphone. I would need someone to confirm this.

So, say I trade in the Mojo for a Hugo 2, and get a NAP200 instead of the XS2, and than feed the Hugo 2 directly to the power amp? I believe this is the road to much better SQ than by feeding the Mojo into an XS2 integrated? More expensive too.

what say you?

For some reason I thought You can't use Mojo direct to a power amp, as it doesn't have a volume control, but I think I'm wrong about that so maybe its possible -others will have to confirm.

Hugo 1 does have a volume control, and so can do that, the limitation being no remote control, so if you are used to one that could be irritating. Higher ones in the series also have remotes. I was unaware of H2 being any different from H1 in this respect, if it does have RC then that would be a useful improvement. Sound quality wise, I found my Hugo great direct into power amp (I wasn't used to a remote, so didn't notice its absence), and used it that way for a couple of years until I upgraded (and have continued without pre). But it is relevant to note that some people with Naim preamps have reported that they prefer the sound through the pre, retaining the preamp's character, while others prefer the direct sound - you will only know which you prefer by trying, but that is easy to do.

However, I gather you presently use Mojo. There seems to be a general view from people who have tried both that and Hugo that Mojo is a match for Hugo sound wise within its more limited usability, so the change would only be likely to be an upgrade in sound quality if you personally find the direct sound better than through a preamp, enabling that change. The conclusion may be different if you were looking at a higher DAC.

No, no, no, not a good idea at all. In fact this is a disaster.

Forget about running a Hugo into a Naim power amp, I've tried it many times, and it just won't sound as good.

Get the Nait XS, or get a SN2.

Music to one person's ears, disaster to another's!  Such is our hobby!

It simply depends what you like, and what this all tells you is you need to hear - but as I suggested, that is simple to do, and no skin off anyones nose if you decide either way.

No - this is financial disaster, in terms of making a wrong decision, and then trying to correct it by subsequently buying a NAC 202 or a NAC 172. (and Innocent Bystander, would appreciate some consideration for real experience please)

Naim themselves say, their preamps are ok with non naim power amps, but their power amps should be matched with a Naim preamp

I have an SN2 and a Hugo, and I've tried the latter direct into a number of amps, including the SN2 in power amp mode, and the Hugo, to me, sounds better into a preamp when using a Naim power amp.  Easy enough to try for yourself though

analogmusic posted:

No - this is financial disaster, in terms of making a wrong decision, and then trying to correct it by subsequently buying a NAC 202 or a NAC 172. (and Innocent Bystander, would appreciate some consideration for real experience please)

 

Analogue, with  respect (and meaning what the words say!), all I have said is that some poeple prefer one way, some another, and, most crucially, suggested that the OP should try for himself, which implicitly meant before making a decision  pointing out that trying is an easy thing to do. I have not said that without is best, just that there is an option.

i fully accept and respect that you have tried, several times as you say, and decided the way you have, as indeed have some others -information that I volunteered upfront. But at the same time I have to ask in what way is it a financial disaster for the OP to try? If he prefers with a preamp he can go that route, and if he prefers without he can go the other, one potential benefit of the latter might be being able to spend more on a power amp - but ONLY if he is happy with the result.