Dynaudio Focus 260 with XS2

It is very obvious he has a limited budget, and does not have the luxury of trying a Naim power amp first and then later on adding a naim preamp. 

It is a one shot purchase for him.

Further to my last post, other than in response to any direct query the OP may make of me I will post no more on this subject in this particular thread lest my zeal for accuracy of portrayal of facts and options in responding to queries raised be misconstrued as some sort of promotion that it is not.

Not sure if you owned any naim amp previously, but Naim amps also need (it is there in the manual) the signal negative connected to mains earth, at one, and only one point, and this does not happen with a Hugo direct into a Naim power amp.

There is way of doing this from the earth terminal of a Nait or NAC 202/282/252  (and indeed NAC 172/272 have a switch for this)

This is not the only reason, and there are other reasons, it just does not give the performance expected of a full Naim amp (pre-power) - or a Nait.

The signal earth tied to mains earth at one point only is the zero voltage reference point against which the signal is amplified, having a floating earth, well for me, translated into variable performance, some roughness in the treble, and bass that varied. 

Not good, not good at all, and that is why I say it is a financial disaster, if you cannot then afford the Naim preamp.

One can argue, that one can tie the chassis of the hugo into mains earth, no, it still won't sound as good as a Naim preamp in the middle (I tried it)

I have no access to the inner secrets of how Naim achieve their sound, but to my ears when they say Naim power- must have Naim preamp, well, that is the way it sounds to me.

Suddenly the XS2 seems an easy solution

Rather than a pin in the eye. How can things be so hard?

Someone suggested buying secondhand or exdemo by mail order. Here's an additional suggestion: if choicecand facilities to listeni in Belgrade are limited, it would not cost a fortune to fly to the UK and spend a day or two listening, focusing on finding a dealer with the same speakers and at least some of the amps of possible choice (Naim or otherwise). Return flights under £150 return, available at least Into STanstead (just North of London), though at least one overnight stay would be needed. Would probably need help from peope at this end to suggest possible dealers within easy traveling locally, And maybe guidance on the best way to travel. It would be a chunk of money out of the budget, but could be well worthwhile if it maximises benefit, and could allow consideration of possible future upgrade if that might be of interest.

Not so uncommon. At least one dealer in the Midlands offers an airport pick up service.  

Focus 260 is not in production anymore.

I doubt any dealer has them

if you're talking about midlands and airport pickup, UHES has closed due to Norman retiring... but is there another dealer in the midlands who does airport pickups ?

Yes wasn't referring to Norman - Cymbiosis pick up but of course don't stock Dyn but as you say probably no one has any 260s in stock any more

The NAP 200 isn't a bad idea actually.

I would call  the dealer that Strat mentioned to secure a pre-loved Naim preamp, that is available within OP budget. They do have pre-loved Naim preamps.

NAC 32,42, 62,72, 82, 102, aand 172 possible options and with the refined and analog like sounding Mojo could be a match that sounds excellent.

Tomtom in St Albans has a good pre loved stock as well. 

Amused,thank god that is your name,because I am sure you are by now,no offence Analog,but you go from almost scalding people who do not own 260's and an XS amp for giving their opinion that he might need more amp,to now saying a nap 200 is a good idea,by the way I gave him that advice earlier in the week on the Dyn thread,but I said 250...,I am sure he is more "confused" than amused now.

Bemused

it is all based on his budget, if he can afford NAP 200 and is open to the idea of buying a pre-loved Naim preamp, sure why not?

his problem is that he has to return his arcam amp to his dealer and then get a naim amp and has budget limitations.

trying to find a solution for his issue.

The idea of a preloved naim preamp only occured to me this morning.

But I thought the xs WAS the solution...

With limited budget secondhand/preloved is the only sensible way to go with amplification, in my opinion -I wouldn't consider otherwise.

That said, in wanting to solve a problem with the sound, the importance of hearing before irreversible financial commitment can't be overemphasised. That is why I suggested considering a trip to somewhere, possibly UK.  If that is a viable option for the OP, ideally he needs to find a dealer with a preloved Focus 260, but if that is not possible, what current Dynaudio model(s) should he look for that have a similar enough character and behaviour for him to use to evaluate amp?

Given that the OP is trying to resolve a problem with the 260 and an Arcam amp, then if a different speaker it might be useful for him to hear with the amp he has as well, to get an idea of the difference between the amp effect, so a dealer with Arcam might be useful.

One crucial thing in all this, although it was the OP who first mentioned a Naim amp, seemingly because it may be the only other amp his dealer stocks that he considers to be an option within in his budget, though it is unclear what other criteria might have applied. In particular, it is unclear to me whether the OP has ever heard Naim, and so whether or not he actually likes the Naim sound - if he hasn't, that  may be an interesting experience for him, and possibly help him choose his direction.

it is a good solution, but a Naim preamp with NAP 200 is slightly better 

You pays your money and ..... 

IIUC the XS arrived in the equation because it is the only Naim amp, possibly the only amp, that the OP's dealer has or is prepared to swap the Arcam for or has/will swap that meets the OP's criteria on paper. If it will not definitely fix the problem [of tge sound of the 260s in the OP's room] then that swap would be wrong, though maybe at worst he will end up with the XS insrptead of the ARcam to shift privately to fund something else (or shift the speakers)

I used to own a Unitiqute 2, and for a short while used it with focus 160's,it made for a simple,fun sounding system,so I am sure the xs is ok,just to dip his feet into the Naim waters...until the upgrade bug bites.

Innocent Bystander, Naim amps and Dynaudio work very well together, and have always been a natural match for a very long time.

As I said earlier, you need to give some consideration for real-world experience, rather than theoretical  risk scenarios.

Dynaudio also have demonstrated their speakers with Naim amps at many shows.

Both the manufacturer and their customers cannot get it so wrong (as you seem to think is a risk)

ANYWAY -  this thread is a textbook perfect example of buying the speakers first, and then buying the electronics.

analogmusic posted:

Innocent Bystander, Naim amps and Dynaudio work very well together, and have always been a natural match for a very long time.

As I said earlier, you need to give some consideration for real-world experience, rather than theoretical  risk scenarios.

Dynaudio also have demonstrated their speakers with Naim amps at many shows.

Both the manufacturer and their customers cannot get it so wrong (as you seem to think is a risk)

ANYWAY -  this thread is a textbook perfect example of buying the speakers first, and then buying the electronics.

Analogue, if you look back you will see I have never suggested or challenged whether Naim amps work with Dynaudio: have no basis to say that, nor reason to think it in the slightest, and I don't know why you seem to think that I have. From your various posts it abundantly clear that you have determined that, to your ears and how you appreciate music, Naim is the one and only brand of amplification that will satisfy, and I do not in any way doubt your conviction. And I do not doubt or challenge that many other people conclude the same for them - however I also recognise that does not apply to everyone.

What I do challenge though, because it is my nature, is blind belief, which includes the belief/assumption that someone else will find the same thing to sound 'right' to them. There is widely considered to be a 'Naim sound', to which various descriptions and explanations are ascribed by different people, of no consequence to this discussion, and which your own pronounced preference seems to affirm is recognised by you. The point I have made about the OP, and nothing specifically to do with his sound problem, is that unless there is something I have missed he has not indicated whether he is aware of or has heard or, more importantly, finds the Naim sound to his liking, which I have suggested is one factor that it might be important for him to know, especially if he might find it to be a marked difference from what he is used to. He may well love it and become hooked (the fact that he chose Arcam suggests that at least at that point he hadn't reached that point), and there is nothing wrong with that -but neither you nor I know how he will hear it. 

Combining all of this with the inescapable fact that the midrange of his DYnaudios sounds wrong (to his ears, in/with his room, positioning, amplification and  source), and in agreement with the gist of your final highlighted sentence, the OP needs certainty that whatever he gets will solve the problem, so to my mind he really, really, really, needs to hear the amp he may choose, ideally in his own system, but failing that in some setup and with relevant comparisons that enable a reasonable assurance to him that it will indeed be music to his ears - whether the result be Naim or anything else. And that, in a nutshell, is all I have been suggesting on this.

And that is why I made the suggestions re travelling to hear, and things to seek in so doing.

I heard the 5SI with some KEFs. I never heard the Naim - Dynaudio combo. 

How does Musical Fidelity stack against Naim? That might be an option as well. I know this is a Naim forum, but I had to ask.

Amused posted:

Ok guys, here it is. The architect is a very lovely chap, he finished this in no time! Now I want to see comments/suggestions from the experts!

Amused,

Sorry, coming to this late.

I believe the main cause of your problem is likely to be due to the shape of the room and a lack of acoustic damping, as this will be causing multiple time delayed reflections of the mid-range sound.  If this is the case, then no amount of changing the electronics will sort the problem.  First you need to sort the room acoustically, after that you may or may not find that you need to change the electronics.

One thing you might like to try is to use a copy of REW and a calibrated microphone (such as a miniDSP UMIK-1) to look at the room's frequency and time signature to see what needs improving.

Huge posted:

Amused posted:

Ok guys, here it is. The architect is a very lovely chap, he finished this in no time! Now I want to see comments/suggestions from the experts!

Amused,

Sorry, coming to this late.

I believe the main cause of your problem is likely to be due to the shape of the room and a lack of acoustic damping, as this will be causing multiple time delayed reflections of the mid-range sound.  If this is the case, then no amount of changing the electronics will sort the problem.  First you need to sort the room acoustically, after that you may or may not find that you need to change the electronics.

One thing you might like to try is to use a copy of REW and a calibrated microphone (such as a miniDSP UMIK-1) to look at the room's frequency and time signature to see what needs improving.

Thanks, duly noted. I may consult with some experts that have the equipment to measure the room's sound signature. 

However, I wouldn't invest too much in this room acoustics now as I have plans for moving into a larger apartment in the not so distant future.

Amused posted:

I heard the 5SI with some KEFs. I never heard the Naim - Dynaudio combo. 

How does Musical Fidelity stack against Naim? That might be an option as well. I know this is a Naim forum, but I had to ask.

I haven't compared myself, but suspect the answer will be 'very different'... I did enjoy mine, though they were from 25-30 years ago and I know nothing about current or recent ones.

I  note Huge has picked up on your room, which I suggested might be a factor in your midrange problem. I endorse what he has suggested. Remiss of me not to suggest REW myself - I personally found it very useful whan  I had a major room problem, identifying how a fundamental change of  the room layout would solve it. That would be well worth pursuing before going too far down the line with amps. The only cost is a relatively inexpensibpve microphone, REW itself being available free, and it is not difficult to use, at least in a simple manner.