Dynaudio Focus 260 with XS2

I haven't heard the moon amp, but one down.

I would be pleasantly surprised if it sounded like a Naim amp.

analogmusic posted:

from what I can see of your Chord DAC, the volume is set at Preamp level, which I think is too high (3 volts)

Try to set the volume at turquoise/dark blue.

That's interesting Analogue as Naim support said the below when I questioned them on comments from the forum. I understand the same applies to all modern Naim pre amps.

The analogue input on the 272 is good for over 9v RMS before clipping so I'm not sure why it is being suggested that a 3v feed would cause issues...

Best Regards

Phil Harris

I do agree - but many Hugo/Naim preamps users found the ideal volume at around the turquoise level which is below 3V level. This is documented on Hugo threads.

Also at the moment the OP has an Arcam amp.

I believe that most of the stuff on the Hugo threads has been with classic series pre-amps with their 75mV sensitivity and 7V RMS clipping limit, and the rest with integrated amps (250mV sensitivity, but same clipping limit).  Both of these use single ended power rails and analogue potentiometer volume controls, unlike the 272 system.  It's entirely possible that the 272 is fine at 3V RMS.

I intend to upgrade to Chord 2Qute DAC which has a fixed 3V line level output. I suppose it will be fine for most modern integrated amps regardless of my final choice, right? 

It has the same output level as the Mojo when the latter is used in 'line level' mode.

Some amplifiers show a bit more colouration with higher signal voltages (typically they sound a bit more hard or glassy, but other effects are also possible).

Amused posted:

I intend to upgrade to Chord 2Qute DAC which has a fixed 3V line level output. I suppose it will be fine for most modern integrated amps regardless of my final choice, right? 

I don't have personal experience, but quite a few people on this forum have assessed the 2Qute as giving inferior sound quality compared to Hugo, whereas it seems Mojo is as good as Hugo, or very almost so. 2Qute has the adbpvantage of far better RF isolation than Hugo, so  not neeing an isolator from a computer source, however its output stage is different and it seems that might be the reason for the observed difference.

Being used to Mojo I would certainly say try 2Qute before changing, whereas I would have less qualms about, say, stepping to Hugo2 if you cant trial.

The experiences of Head-Fi forum users (where Rob Watts himself posts frequently) is the complete opposite. They say 2Qute is a worthy upgrade to the Mojo in a desktop solution, and also Hugo in a way that it doesn't require battery recharging. SQ wise they say it's much better than the Mojo (which is 90% of the Hugo, right?) Wider soundstage, better details, much better bass. That's what a significant majority of them are saying.

I've used Hugo, 2Qute & TT all SPDIF feed from NDX. The 2Qute was noticeably inferior in that configuration.

G

Amused posted:

The experiences of Head-Fi forum users (where Rob Watts himself posts frequently) is the complete opposite. They say 2Qute is a worthy upgrade to the Mojo in a desktop solution, and also Hugo in a way that it doesn't require battery recharging. SQ wise they say it's much better than the Mojo (which is 90% of the Hugo, right?) Wider soundstage, better details, much better bass. That's what a significant majority of them are saying.

Hmmm, as I say I don't know myself, jsut recall others saying, so suggest doing some searches on here . A difference between here and some other forums can sometimes be the quality of system played through, and often of course the brand of amplifier, either of which can make a difference. Studing posts either way may help, and otherwise hearing before commitment if at all possible.

In case auditioning is difficult where you are, it may be of interest to know that when I auditioned some higher chord DACs I did it all by 'mail order' from a UK retailer, who was happy for me to have two units on audition at the same time, though I had to pay the full price of each upfront as a deposit against their return. Other than that they would probably expect you to pay the postage and insurance, I don't see why they wouldn't be prepared to do the same overseas, though of course that is pure congecture and you'd have to speak to them direct.

GraemeH posted:

I've used Hugo, 2Qute & TT all SPDIF feed from NDX. The 2Qute was noticeably inferior in that configuration.

G

That makes me think of a possible significant factor: 2Qute is likely to sound better than Mojo or Hugo and if the source is contaminated with RF (e.g. Electrical from computer), because it has RF rejection that they don't. But if the source is clean maybe that allows Mojo and Hugo to shine (Isolator or optical connection)

Well, I do use the USB input so I guess the 2Qute's galvanized input matters in my setup. 

Amused posted:

Well, I do use the USB input so I guess the 2Qute's galvanized input matters in my setup. 

Feeing from a PC you might get better quality with an RF isolator before Mojo or Hugo than using 2Qute. When I had Hugo I used a Gustard U12 which also converted it to a choice of optical, SODIF and AES/EBU, and quite a few others have rated that highly, especially using  optical. Some others swear by  the Audioquest USB Regen. 

It is possible you might be able to improve on your source itself, as not all sound the same, with differences in sound quality beyond just the effect of RF, but I'll leave that for another time if you want to explore after you get your speaker/amp combination optimised.

Amused posted:

Well, I do use the USB input so I guess the 2Qute's galvanized input matters in my setup. 

Galvanic isolation didn't seem to have an impact in my set up as I much preferred the Hugo to the 2Qute via USB from a MacBookAir. This may have been the ability to adjust the volume on the Hugo to an optimal level however, a luxury you don't get with 2Qute.

I have recently tried the Uptone Audio USB Regen in between and have been pretty blown away by the improvement it has made. 

Mayor West posted:

I have recently tried the Uptone Audio USB Regen in between and have been pretty blown away by the improvement it has made. 

Good to hear 

james n posted:

Mayor West posted:

I have recently tried the Uptone Audio USB Regen in between and have been pretty blown away by the improvement it has made. 

Good to hear 

Thanks James. I'll post a final few thoughts in the other thread when I get chance :-)

Ok guys, let me update you.

Yesterday I auditioned a Hegel H360 (a monster of an integrated amp) as well as an Exposure 3010S2 with a pair of Spendor speakers. So it might not be relevant enough for my case, but the Hegel sounded a bit too refined with the Soendors (even dull if I may say), whereas the Exposure had more slam and attack, but was also a touch too bright which caused a bit of a fatigue and I asked the dealer to turn the volume down. I also took my Chord Mojo to compare it to the Hegel's built in DAC, and may I say the little Mojo demonstrated its magic with flying colours and produced a deeper soundstage than the Hegel (but perhaps not as detailed). The dealer was impressed as he had not heard a Chord DAC before.

 So all in all I wasn't much impressed with either amp, so consequently I didn't ask for a home demo with my Dyn's either.

However, there might be another very good deal, much more relevant for this forum. I have a chance to get a preloved SN1 and even trade in my Arcam A29. So financially this would be the best deal of them all. The good thing about the SN1 is the built in DAC which may save me more money if it's at least as good as the Mojo, then I can sell the Mojo or trade it in for a Oppo 4K player which I intend to get regardless of the outcome of my amp search.

My questions (and I need the answers fast as the deal can be concluded later today, and I don't want to lose the SN1 as it's the only one available locally at the moment):

1. Is the SN1 a good match for the 260s?

2. Is the built in DAC any good, especially compared to the Chord Mojo?

3. Are there any reliability issues with the SN1 that I should be aware of (the serial number indicates 2009 as the year of production, that's what I've been told by the seller)?

4. Is the SN2 that much better than the SN1 to justify several thousands of euros price difference (if bought new against a preloved SN1)?

5. Are the upgrades in terms of power supplies worth it with the SN1?

Many thanks!

Unfortunately the trial of other amps through very different speakers does little to tell you how they would sound through your speakers...

Meanwhile, Re Q1, as you have already found with the amp comparison you have done at home, different amps can have different effects, and really the only thing to do is  listen with your speakers in your home and confirm for yourself that it sounds right to you.

And re Q2, based on all I have heard about the Mojo and Naim DACs you must expect it to sound different, and if you do like the Mojo sound it may well be that you would find the DAC built into the SN1 disappointing, but really again only you can decide how it sounds to you, and whether you are trialling or simply buying the SN1 it is really an easy thing to assess for yourself.

The Oppo is a disc player, presumably with built-in DAC. Whether that sounds as good as (or better than) that in the SN1, or indeed Mojo,  is again something you have to assess by hearing.

Amused,

I''m no expert on DACs but I understand the DAC in the SN1 was not of the highest standard.   I should imagine the current range of Chords will be considerably better.  Others to comment?

The SN2 is a considerably more refined amp than the SN1 - far better resolution and tighter better defined bass.   As for add-on PSUs on the 6 or so times I've heard it it's always been stand alone but I know quite a few of the guys on here report excellent results when adding a HC. 

Regards,

Lindsay

I have a Supernait (1) & the DAC can't compare to the Chords.  I had my old Marantz CDP running via the SN DAC & it worked well,  better SQ than the Marantz analogue.   It did have a problem with TV audio, it had an occasional hissy fit, the fix was to momentarily go to another input.  I borrowed an Arcam DAC to see if another would fix it,  & it did & improved SQ significantly.  I was not contemplating another box as a fix for an occasional TV program, so as the old Marantz digital feed was OK, it must be a problem with the TV signal.    Then when my NDX arrived I swapped the TV feed on to it & the SQ difference was so obviously much cleaner & detailed,  plus no hissy fit.     So NDX DAC is better than SN DAC.  -  if that helps.  

Amused posted:

 

1. Is the SN1 a good match for the 260s?

2. Is the built in DAC any good, especially compared to the Chord Mojo?

3. Are there any reliability issues with the SN1 that I should be aware of (the serial number indicates 2009 as the year of production, that's what I've been told by the seller)?

4. Is the SN2 that much better than the SN1 to justify several thousands of euros price difference (if bought new against a preloved SN1)?

5. Are the upgrades in terms of power supplies worth it with the SN1?

Many thanks!

1. Yes. As Callas and me told you earlier Focus 260 can be driven by Nait XS 2, so SN1 is very capable.

2. well, no. The Mojo is  another league of DAC as you found out compared to the Hegel DAC. Don't sell the Mojo.

3. Many SN1 owners, if there was an issue it would be on the forums. I don't see/hear of any complaints on the forum,

4. No idea, but I wouldn't pay few thousand euros for a Sn2 if I could buy a SN1. I would rather spend the money on ... a Hicap which bring us to the next question..

5. YES ! Hicap really makes the SN1 much much better and sound bigger, no doubt about that. I heard it and couldn't believe the amount of improvement. Bigger soundstage, punchier and deeper bass, lower noise floor, really worth it.

An amp from 2009 is not exactly a spring chicken -- in a few years time, could you get in serviced easily in your country? Your Naim dealer should be able to advise.

Here another happy SN1 owner.

I can only confirm what others wrote already. Dac is indeed so-so, but perfect for all day use and makes it an very versatile proposition. Later on, you could grab an NDac / chord thing somewhere and add it.

HCDR makes it another amp, as ANALOGUEMUSIC wrote (and I brought my SN to the shop to experience this):

'5. YES ! Hicap really makes the SN1 much much better and sound bigger, no doubt about that. I heard it and couldn't believe the amount of improvement. Bigger soundstage, punchier and deeper bass, lower noise floor, really worth it.'

You need to run to the shop!

We - the SN1 folks - are always a bit shy since everybody tells that the SN2 is much better - which is indeed true - but we are all very happy.

If you like dynamics in music, be able to support a wide range of speakers, hook up any source, tape-out to another amp, connect your tv, chromecast, dacs, do not want to have too many boxes, the SN1 is the amp to go.

... and make sure it has a lovely purring transformer ... so cute!

Timo posted:

An amp from 2009 is not exactly a spring chicken -- in a few years time, could you get in serviced easily in your country? Your Naim dealer should be able to advise.

Personally, I think that 8 years of age is extremely young in amp terms, however with the Naim recommendation on service intervals the query re servicing is relevant (as might be awareness of servicing cost).