Adding DAC to Naim NDX

I think a lot will come down to personal preference, so I'm not sure how much you will learn from reading other people's preferences here.

You may find that the XP5 becomes superfluous with an off board DAC, which could free up a bit more space/cash. Unless, of course, you go for an NDAC, which I notice is not on your shortlist?

Yes, I thought I could probably sell the XP5 to increase funds

I would start searching for a pre-loved Naim nDAC - it would fit your price range perfectly (even new). If you decide to go down this route, your XP5XS would go on the nDAC (no longer on the NDX).

You've got two routes -

Add a DAC to the NDX and keep the Synology NAS (I'm not sure of the value of the Melco vs Synology NAS via UPnP so money may be better spent elsewhere)

Use a USB DAC with the Melco and ditch the NDX / XP5

Worth going to listen to a few of the options to decide which way you want to go. 

James

Going by what others have done who have heard the combination, Hugo is an obvious contender to upgrade NDX (plenty of people reporting experiences on these forums -and a preference for Hugo seems almost universal where people have listened to it). And with Hugo, no additional PS is required, so  you could sell the XP5XS. Mojo, quite a bit cheaper, is said to give the same sound quality and is ideal if you don't need the additional capability of Hugo, though I don't recall anyone reporting on using Mojo with NDX, and I don't have personal experience of Mojo.

One option to try, if you only have digital sources, would be omitting the preamp and feeding Hugo direct to the power amp, with the advantage of reducing the electronics in the signal path. Better than that would be Hugo TT, because it adds remote control that Hugo doesn't have, and even better sound quality, the higher cost being offset by sale of preamp as well as the PS. But not everyone likes the direct path, some prefering to retain the preamp, liking the sound it adds, so, as with all things, if at all possible you must try (I tried by post, not living near a dealer -in fact I tried TT and Dave at the same time, though had to pay full value deposit.) 

I had ND5 XS with XP5 XS. When I bought a Chord Hugo (a massive upgrade) I sold the XP5 XS. Now very happily using NDX with Hugo.

The forum has very vocal fans of Hugo (some using the TT version) and of nDac. I would guess either route would see you pretty happy, and if you have the chance to listen to both before choosing then so much the better.

(Others who know more about it may say the nDac needs a power supply to sound its best, which would mean three boxes, if that matters...)

Adam Zielinski posted:

I would start searching for a pre-loved Naim nDAC - it would fit your price range perfectly (even new). If you decide to go down this route, your XP5XS would go on the nDAC (no longer on the NDX).

Has the Naim DAC replaced the  Naim nDac or are they the same?

daveyu posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I would start searching for a pre-loved Naim nDAC - it would fit your price range perfectly (even new). If you decide to go down this route, your XP5XS would go on the nDAC (no longer on the NDX).

Has the Naim DAC replaced the  Naim nDac or are they the same?

Naim manufacturers two Digital-To-Analogue converters:

DAC - commonly refered to as nDAC (full width enclosure)

DAC-V1 - shoe-box style enclosure.

james n posted:

You've got two routes -

Add a DAC to the NDX and keep the Synology NAS (I'm not sure of the value of the Melco vs Synology NAS via UPnP so money may be better spent elsewhere)

Use a USB DAC with the Melco and ditch the NDX / XP5

Worth going to listen to a few of the options to decide which way you want to go. 

James

Yes, indeed, chaging to Melco removes the need for NDX entirely, as you can feed the rendered digital music stream  direct from Melco to your choice of DAC. And there is much to be said for avoiding streaming of files across a network, which a quick scan of these forums will reveal causes some people a lot of hassle.  A possible alternative is Uniti Core, although it is so new that there is as yet a dearth of comparative information about sound quality used in that way.

Yes the core is a good option too and i think if you want streaming service support then this offers more than the Melco (at the moment).

Some DAC's work better with S/PDIF, some with USB so you'll need to factor this in to your choice of source.  Lots of choices 

The Naim DAC would mean a new rack, and I have a very good pretty expensive rack + base unit for power amp.

I have a turntable / phono stage as well, so getting rid of pre-amp is not an option really.

Sounds like Melco or Core, plus Hugo... If selling NDX and XP5XS yields enough, perhaps even Hugo TT?

You could always just swap the ND5XS for an XPSDR, which is the NDX's natural partner. Perhaps you should try this before going for a DAC. The Synology is perfectly fine, especially if you are transcoding to WAV and I certainly wouldn't start throwing the baby out with the bath water and moving to a Core, Melco or whatever this week's must-have box might be. 

I am loath to rid of the NDX.

I want to keep Tidal streaming as well

Not having one I don't know what the Melco brings in terms of online streaming - and of possible significance in that regard I gather it has either just had, or is about to have, a firmware upgrade. Nor do I know what Core brings. Both are worth researching. I use Audirvana running on a dedicated MacMini, effectively doing the same as these other solutions other than it requires an additional RF isolator with Hugo (but not TT upwards), with sound quality indistinguishable from Melco n1A at least in a quick comparison. Audirvana works with Tidal and a couple of other online streaming services, and apparently v3 about to be released will inlude MQA capability, which some people find of interest. Numbers of people on this forum  have compared Melco to NDX and reported that Melco gives better sound quality than NDX, and I don't recall anyone concluding the opposite, so if both upgrading the DAC and contemplating Melco or equivalent, NDX becomes pointless.

The Synology NAS wouldn't be wasted, as it could be an effective backup store.

I can't speak a out the impact of the Hugo, but many in this forum will be able to have a lot of praise for that setup. I do however know how an ndac upgraded my CDX2 while powered by and xps, it was magical. So I definitely can advise that as you still have the option of upgrading the power supplies in the future.

Hugo addicts will argue to go for the Hugo......

Bert Schurink posted:

I can't speak a out the impact of the Hugo, but many in this forum will be able to have a lot of praise for that setup. I do however know how an ndac upgraded my CDX2 while powered by and xps, it was magical. So I definitely can advise that as you still have the option of upgrading the power supplies in the future.

Hugo addicts will argue to go for the Hugo......

There are reasons why Hugo addicts argue that - indeed the same reasons why most people who hear Hugo become Hugo addicts, even diehard Naimophiles:

* * * Health warning * **

Hugo is addictive, and hearing Hugo can seriously damage your commitment to other DACs and reduce desire to empty your wallet.

Can't the Melco be directly connected to the NDX via ethernet cable

Melco NA1 with 6tb of storage is coming soon

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I can't speak a out the impact of the Hugo, but many in this forum will be able to have a lot of praise for that setup. I do however know how an ndac upgraded my CDX2 while powered by and xps, it was magical. So I definitely can advise that as you still have the option of upgrading the power supplies in the future.

Hugo addicts will argue to go for the Hugo......

There are reasons why Hugo addicts argue that - indeed the same reasons why most people who hear Hugo become Hugo addicts, even diehard Naimophiles:

* * * Health warning * **

Hugo is addictive, and hearing Hugo can seriously damage your commitment to other DACs and reduce desire to empty your wallet.

Just the same old hyperbole. Why are some people so desperate to justify their own choices?

 Best advice is to listen for yourself and beware of anybody claiming to know what "most people" think.

daveyu posted:

Can't the Melco be directly connected to the NDX via ethernet cable

Melco NA1 with 6tb of storage is coming soon

Yes, but why, when the Melco will do as good a job of rendering as the NDX, and fed direct into a DAC, instead of through NDX to a DAC, it would free up the NDX as superfluous?

Jonn posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I can't speak a out the impact of the Hugo, but many in this forum will be able to have a lot of praise for that setup. I do however know how an ndac upgraded my CDX2 while powered by and xps, it was magical. So I definitely can advise that as you still have the option of upgrading the power supplies in the future.

Hugo addicts will argue to go for the Hugo......

There are reasons why Hugo addicts argue that - indeed the same reasons why most people who hear Hugo become Hugo addicts, even diehard Naimophiles:

* * * Health warning * **

Hugo is addictive, and hearing Hugo can seriously damage your commitment to other DACs and reduce desire to empty your wallet.

Just the same old hyperbole. Why are some people so desperate to justify their own choices?

 Best advice is to listen for yourself and beware of anybody claiming to know what "most people" think.

i) my post, I thought fairly obvious, was a bit of lighthearted banter

ii) that question of course can be asked of any and all on here if we mention things we have, or have done. My own purpose is to help ensure people aren't blinkered by dogma.

Not that I have Hugo anymore, having found even better, but It was/is an amazing machine -and most people arguing against it seem never to have heard it!

The OP now has a lot of info, so can make upmhis mind, preferably by ear...

There you go again with "most people" with no evidence to support the claim that people arguing against have never heard it!

Jonn posted:

There you go again with "most people" with no evidence to support the claim that people arguing against have never heard it!

There I go???

Simple statement of fact: other than yourself I don't recall a reading anyone saying they have compared and decided they prefer the DAC from Naim, while certainly I have seen many the other way round. I don't suggest no-one else has determined that way round, but that the number of posts compared to preferring Hugo is small -and that whereas people saying Hugo is a better solution often say that they have compared, whereas I don't recall people proposing the Naim solution saying they have compared.  But I freely admit I haven't even thought to spend time trawling through thousands of posts compiling statistics, but then I'm not aware that anyone else seeks to justify their impressions ('it seems') on a sound statistical basis. 

So, for the OP's benefit, have you seen a majority (or even any?) posts from people other than yourself who have argued that NDX or nDAC is best who have in fact auditoned Hugo against it?

Here you go, a post by Harry:

"DAC  will improve the performance of the NDX so my logic says that adding DAC to ND5 and comparing with NDX is worth exploring. You may prefer the Hugo. I didn't. Your ears will know what is best. "

Like you I can't be bothered trawling through posts but this came up on a quick search and I know there are others besides me that have tried the Hugo and were not impressed. I don't really care what you choose to like or dislike it's just the dogma that grates.

The dogma seems to me that Naim is best regardless,  and what I have done is noted that I found different, observing that I have Not been alone in that.  I  have not said go for Hugo regardless but instead suggested alternatives to consider and indicated that tgere is information on these forums that will help the OP make an informed choice as to what to audition, precisely not to follow dogma. Naim does have strengths, but not necessarily the best for everything.

there we will have to leave it out of fairness to the OP - and he is the best placed to judge whether what he has been presented with is dogma or informative information.