To Two Seven Two or not to Two Seven Two...?

You've posed this as a question, Graeme, but from what you've written in the body of your post, it rather looks like this is only going one way ;-)

Chris

272 it is, until 372!

Yes - A question that was vexing me...Until I'd spent time with the 272.

G

Great piece of kit it is!

Impressive considering (I assume) that you prefer NDX/TT to NDX/TT/282/HCDR.  Which areas does the 272 better the NDX/TT set up? 

Mayor West posted:

Impressive considering (I assume) that you prefer NDX/TT to NDX/TT/282/HCDR.  Which areas does the 272 better the NDX/TT set up? 

The original quote was some things better. It would be interesting to know what and what not...

As I have become painfully aware of recently "better" is not always "more fun to listen to". 

I have a basement full of "better" components, but the system that is up is the one that is more fun to listen to.

Welcome to the club Graeme. It may not be exclusive but it's a lot of fun. 

Great to hear GRAEMEH,i am still using the bare 272 into 250dr,quite good isn't it?I was actually considering trying my Hugo directly into my 250dr,but ask myself why bother when the 272 is so good...keep us up to date on your impressions,i am leaning towards adding a 555dr.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Mayor West posted:

Impressive considering (I assume) that you prefer NDX/TT to NDX/TT/282/HCDR.  Which areas does the 272 better the NDX/TT set up? 

The original quote was some things better. It would be interesting to know what and what not...

Timbres are surprisingly good. Neil Young's acoustic on 'Live at Massey Hall' is very 'woody' sounding for example. Cymbals have a brassy shimmer and nice decay. The 272 is also the epitome of PRAT - and not at the expense of detail. Nimble bass (slightly warmer than the chords) drives without overwhelming.

The scale is very slightly smaller/flatter I think - This needs borne out over more listening. I suspect, based on previous experience, that an external ps would expand the sound stage height, width & back to front.

Naim have done a great job with this machine.

G

Brubacca posted:

As I have become painfully aware of recently "better" is not always "more fun to listen to".  

Brother, we're on a PAR (Painfully Aware of Recently) with it.

I will never forget hearing 272 for the 1st time ... I was stunned at how good it was ... and still am. Having said that I was gob smacked when I added a separate psu.

Minus twenty still before I add three hundred.

Chag -

Graeme, interesting, I found the 272 a little grey and flat compared to the Hugo without that inner Mandelbrot effect which I have become addicted to ...but we are all different..if the 272 grabs you and it certainly does have appeal in its simplicity then go for it. In talking to Naim before Christmas I'd be surprised if a 372 appears anytime soon, as there is a feel that they have compressed just about as much as they can in the 272  so as to provide a performance comensutae with a Naim Classic series component... Naim believe ultimately you need space around componentry for optimum SQ that matches the true Naim DNA.

If you are looking to buy, my only reservation might be perhaps hold off to listen to forthcoming Star and definitely the Nova. These are strikingly good, especially the Nova... and they take a new architectural direction for Naim which very much enhances local and remote streaming capability as well as having some of the features of the 272 (electronic volume control etc)

Graeme, it's very interesting to read of your findings. Years ago I read a review of the 552 where adding it between a source with volume control and a power amplifier improved the system. That the 272 can be preferred to the NDX/TT suggests to me that while the TT might be great as a DAC (I've not heard one so this is pure speculation) it might not be so good as a preamp. I wonder what your findings would have been had you compared 272 with NDX/282/Hicap and also the latter with the TT added. The NDX/TT/282 is about £8,000 more expensive than the 272 and one would expect it to be much better. Comparisons are of course odious, though it got me wondering about the TT and its impact on the sound. I've read a few people saying that they tried removing the preamp but ultimately felt that it was certainly adding something. 

I wonder if this system, probably with an XPS, will be the end of your journey, as you've certainly been around the houses over the past couple of years. Wouldn't it be great if it was?

Chag... posted:

Minus twenty still before I add three hundred.

Chag -

Starting to sound like an infinite improbability drive winding down!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Graeme, it's very interesting to read of your findings. Years ago I read a review of the 552 where adding it between a source with volume control and a power amplifier improved the system. That the 272 can be preferred to the NDX/TT suggests to me that while the TT might be great as a DAC (I've not heard one so this is pure speculation) it might not be so good as a preamp. I wonder what your findings would have been had you compared 272 with NDX/282/Hicap and also the latter with the TT added. The NDX/TT/282 is about £8,000 more expensive than the 272 and one would expect it to be much better. Comparisons are of course odious, though it got me wondering about the TT and its impact on the sound. I've read a few people saying that they tried removing the preamp but ultimately felt that it was certainly adding something. 

I wonder if this system, probably with an XPS, will be the end of your journey, as you've certainly been around the houses over the past couple of years. Wouldn't it be great if it was?

I suspect that one of the reasons, possibly the main one, for those people who have compared and decide they prefer to retain a Naim preamp vs direct feed of DACs like TT to power amp is the 'Naim sound' that I have the impression is largely produced in the preamp that they miss without it, as clearly without the preamp the sound entering the power amp would just be that of the DAC. Omitting the pre of course doesn't stop the stated benefits of a Naim power amp delivering its power in the way it does. 

Graeme,it is not clear to me what you are using as a source?Just the 272,streaming from a NAS,or is the NDX feeding the 272...granted both units perform the same functions,other than the preamp,just want to be clear what we are comparing here,thanks.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

Graeme, it's very interesting to read of your findings. Years ago I read a review of the 552 where adding it between a source with volume control and a power amplifier improved the system. That the 272 can be preferred to the NDX/TT suggests to me that while the TT might be great as a DAC (I've not heard one so this is pure speculation) it might not be so good as a preamp. I wonder what your findings would have been had you compared 272 with NDX/282/Hicap and also the latter with the TT added. The NDX/TT/282 is about £8,000 more expensive than the 272 and one would expect it to be much better. Comparisons are of course odious, though it got me wondering about the TT and its impact on the sound. I've read a few people saying that they tried removing the preamp but ultimately felt that it was certainly adding something. 

I wonder if this system, probably with an XPS, will be the end of your journey, as you've certainly been around the houses over the past couple of years. Wouldn't it be great if it was?

I suspect that one of the reasons, possibly the main one, for those people who have compared and decide they prefer to retain a Naim preamp vs direct feed of DACs like TT to power amp is the 'Naim sound' that I have the impression is largely produced in the preamp that they miss without it, as clearly without the preamp the sound entering the power amp would just be that of the DAC. Omitting the pre of course doesn't stop the stated benefits of a Naim power amp delivering its power in the way it does. 

Naim have always said that the preamp determines the operating environment of the poweramp. So without a Naim preamp, the power amp may not work as intended. That's how I understand it anyway. This is what leads me to think that it may be the TT preamp that's the issue. 

it's not the TT preamp HH

Naim power amps are carefully matched with Naim preamps, in terms of signal earthing, impedance, cabling.

analogmusic posted:

it's not the TT preamp HH

Naim power amps are carefully matched with Naim preamps, in terms of signal earthing, impedance, cabling.

And whilst that latter statement undoubtedly will be true, it is not to say that any difference in sound between the two approaches is necessarily anything at all to do with earthing, impedance or cabling.

No quarter posted:

Graeme,it is not clear to me what you are using as a source?Just the 272,streaming from a NAS,or is the NDX feeding the 272...granted both units perform the same functions,other than the preamp,just want to be clear what we are comparing here,thanks.

NAS to 272 NQ.

G

Chag... posted:

Minus twenty still before I add three hundred.

Chag -

+10 

Crikey, Graeme. You've been through quite a few component changes over the past year or two.  Are you trying to give Mango Monkey a run for his money? 

MDS posted:

Crikey, Graeme. You've been through quite a few component changes over the past year or two.  Are you trying to give Mango Monkey a run for his money? 

It's the add-ons that were what changed around a bit. The NDX & 250 (NowDR) constants for a while...the NDX now replaced with the 272.

Technology moves on...Just keeping pace

G