HCDR on CD5X

And HCDR stands for Hide in Cupboard Don't Resell?

I get more and more the impression that the HCDR seems to be a device which one should always keep and not sell on. There will always be a moment when it is useful.

"how would a bare CDX2 compare?" - Do you really need to ask......? Better. Much.

And an XPS'ed CDX2....? See above. Add 'Even'.

Has anyone has actually done the comparison or made the move - CD5X/HCDR to a bare CDX2?

I'd be happy to loose a box and a power cord and gain a shelf on my rack.

I would rather go S/H CD5XS/nDAC instead of CDX2, except for CDX2.2. Adding nDAC takes both CDPs in another league on the doorsteps of CDS3. 

Chag -

Some time ago we wanted to go from CD5/HC to CD5X/HC. The 5X was a worthwhile upgrade and an attractive proposition, but we also took the opportunity to spend the afternoon with a CDX2, which won easily. It's something different and for all it's joie de vivre and bouncy presentation it is the more musically capable player. And (at least in pre DR days) adding the XPS2 produced an upgrade worth every penny of the high price. You may never go that far but it does, in retrospect, make the 5X look comparatively dead end ish, good though it for what it is. I went through an era of feverishly collecting HDCDs because they sounded so big, detailed and life like on the CDX2. But this passed. They sounded different but not necessarily better in the longer analysis. I still have a few ripped to 24/44. Like many things it's never black and white and the quality of the original material used to render an HDCD is more important.

I remember hearing a cdx2 shortly after purchasing a cd5x (new).  The cdx2 was used and being offered for little more than what I paid for the cd5x.  After a short demo I was crushed to admit it wasn't a close contest.  I felt stupid for buying the 5x.  I haven't tried a hicap on the 5x but with a flatcap the difference is still easy to hear (although the flatcap makes the 5x a very respectable player in its own right).

Well... CD5XS was a fine player for me. Untill I heard a CDX2.2.... CD5XS is long gone. CDX2.2 was first used with nDAC, now it has it's own freshly re-capped non-DR 555PS. Best combo to my ears, but others will surely disagree.

I'm with Adam on this--my journey recently

CD5XS ---on its own--Ok for the dosh--but plug play and forget till the next time

CD5XS + FlatCapXS-- better yes--sorta more of before--whatever that was that floated your boat

CDX2.2--on it's lonesome good --more of all that from  the CD5XS--OK not the best bang for the buck--but could be good for the ego--after all it is a poor mans CD555

CDX2.2-XP5XS-- sadly the PSU hummed like a SOB and had to be returned to the dealer-- short listening though OK Combo- but PSU did little I felt to enhance the Player--just as well the XP5 is budget NAIM

pricing so at least it's in the market place before you go overboard and lose your wallet!

CDX2.2 + 555PSU-both units just full NAIM service and upgraded -- just forget all of the above combos and sit back in wonderment !

here's Drive, Dynamics, Power,you name it you won't want to miss a Disc with this combo-- sensational !!-- easily eclipsed my previous Sondek CD12

Oh yes while  I had hoary Hum with the XP5XS my 555PS is so slight of Purr I forget its on

Isn't that the way it should be for the £££££'s?

Good listening,

D41

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well... CD5XS was a fine player for me. Untill I heard a CDX2.2.... CD5XS is long gone. CDX2.2 was first used with nDAC, now it has it's own freshly re-capped non-DR 555PS. Best combo to my ears, but others will surely disagree.

Adam; don't you have or haven't you tried, CDX2.2 digital out to NDS?  My 5XS is now back in the main system on NDS via DC1. A jewel!

Chag -

Chag... posted:that was 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well... CD5XS was a fine player for me. Untill I heard a CDX2.2.... CD5XS is long gone. CDX2.2 was first used with nDAC, now it has it's own freshly re-capped non-DR 555PS. Best combo to my ears, but others will surely disagree.

Adam; don't you have or haven't you tried, CDX2.2 digital out to NDS?  My 5XS is now back in the main system on NDS via DC1. A jewel!

Chag -

That was my Dilemma, CD5XS, or Cdx2.2.

Both had the Digital out, I couldn't justify spending that type of cash for a Cdx2.2 and  using the Dac within the Ndac. Just seemed like a lot cash wasted on a fine CDP on its on.

Not to mention, more cash dumped into Naim's top Dac, the Ndac. So I decided to go the CD5XS route, and down the road, Ndac. During that time period, 2014/2015 Norman, I think, Audio Reviewer, was reviewing the CD5XS, and comparing it to an bare Cdx2.

So I invested in 10 - 12 hours across the border listening to a CD5XS, very fine player, 2nd hand. The Dealer didn't have  any Naim gear, and I wanted to hear my newly purchased 2nd hand 282/HCDR so I packed it up!

Left it at the Dealership and returned later in the week for another listening session.

 Very fine player, hard to compare, if it's not a home demo, but if I had to describe it with one word, it would be smooth!

To make a long story short, I was new to the Forum, and you guys pursuaded me to take the poor man's CD555 route, yeah, I guess my ego entered into the equation also.

Waited on a 2008 MK I, I figured the signiture sound couldn't be that far from a 2009 MK II.

Ok, Adam has been there, and when he decides to partake with the Digital CD, it's the Cdx MK II, with the Digital out, that he doesn't use!!!

Cdx2.2/555PS--+252/SCDR

Not saying the Cdx2.2/Ndac is inferior, just a different type of playback, I hear!

So another vote Cdx2, bare, and down the road, 555PS!

Nice using the Forum as a guinea  pig, I don't have that type of cash!

So far, you guys haven't steered me wrong!

Cdx2--+282--+HCDR--+3 x 250.2--+Briks

Oh, the Briks, that's on Me, if it ain't broke. Why fix it!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

Allante93!

My CDX2 mk1 is my longest surviving Naim component.. and first used it with Cyrus mono block amplification. I have been there and back again with XPS2 then 555PS back to XPS2 and finally bare.. what I have found is the CDX2 appears really sensitive to NAC used and supports. With a 282 or non Naim amp as well as non Fraim support, I found the XPS2 really was needed to enjoy, however move to a 252DR and full fat Fraim, and the CDX2 sings beautifully standalone... quite intriguing how the CDP can sound so different depending on the system its standing on and connected to. I also regrettably feel the CDX2 sounds slightly better than the CDX2.2.. and there is not much a new user can do about that now apart from buying used.. with the later CDP erring perhaps on sounding a smidgen glassy sometimes.

One thing for sure the DAC and DSP chip as well as the i2v and analogue stage is very special and is unique in the Naim portfolio... might not be the most neutral, or detailed compared to NDS or NDAC, but boy, for certain discs it's the most enjoyable... (with appropriate NAC and Fraim)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

My CDX2 mk1 is my longest surviving Naim component.. and first used it with Cyrus mono block amplification. I have been there and back again with XPS2 then 555PS back to XPS2 and finally bare.. what I have found is the CDX2 appears really sensitive to NAC used and supports. With a 282 or non Naim amp as well as non Fraim support, I found the XPS2 really was needed to enjoy, however move to a 252DR and full fat Fraim, and the CDX2 sings beautifully standalone... quite intriguing how the CDP can sound so different depending on the system its standing on and connected to. I also regrettably feel the CDX2 sounds slightly better than the CDX2.2.. and there is not much a new user can do about that now apart from buying used.. with the later CDP erring perhaps on sounding a smidgen glassy sometimes.

One thing for sure the DAC and DSP chip as well as the i2v and analogue stage is very special and is unique in the Naim portfolio... might not be the most neutral, or detailed compared to NDS or NDAC, but boy, for certain discs it's the most enjoyable... (with appropriate NAC and Fraim)

Some interesting observations there, Simon. That could mean that when the engineers at Naim Audio are trying to make incremental improvements to existing products, the improvements are optimised for a specific combinations of connected components and set-up. With the multitude of combinations of pre-amps, power amps, speakers, cables, supporting structures, room, furnishings (and ears), it must be an impossibility to develop a new product which sounds better in every situation. Indeed, it's hardly surprising that we all hear different improvements or degradations in performance with each new product and why it's so important to have extended loan home demos. 

It also shows how difficult it can be to determine which box, shelf or cable to upgrade next to get the best from the remaining components. Interesting. 

Chag... posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Well... CD5XS was a fine player for me. Untill I heard a CDX2.2.... CD5XS is long gone. CDX2.2 was first used with nDAC, now it has it's own freshly re-capped non-DR 555PS. Best combo to my ears, but others will surely disagree.

Adam; don't you have or haven't you tried, CDX2.2 digital out to NDS?  My 5XS is now back in the main system on NDS via DC1. A jewel!

Chag -

Chag - I have

This is the post:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...rst-shootout-results

That's it. I give up. I will now look for a cheap and clean pre 2009 CDX2. But, but, which one again? Pre 2006 VAM 1250 or post 2006 VAM 1202?

I know the old question will then come back and haunt me. Should I have Salisbury install the digital output with no way back? Does the VAM model make such a difference once you go digital output to nDAC or NDS/555DR?    

Chag -

Pre 2006 VAM 1250 .. all the way 

FWIW if you are going to use the Naim DAC you might as well use a streamer as a CD tansport- the whole point of using the CDP is the enjoyment and musicality that that particular player brings with its unique DAC/DSP/output stage combo... Also Naim said for many years prior to 2006 the reason they didn't include the SPDIF out was that it compromised the performance of the player to some extent - but when the Naim DAC came along I guess it was slightly difficult to justify that line - but go figure

It's 1250 all the way for my ears. However, if you're going to modify it to incorporate digital out you might as well go for the 2.2 because you won't hear a difference into a DAC. And you'll lose the analogue out. I did have mine modified, but if I was buying one I would have gone for the 2.2 and used it with the DAC.

Chag... posted:

That's it. I give up. I will now look for a cheap and clean pre 2009 CDX2. But, but, which one again? Pre 2006 VAM 1250 or post 2006 VAM 1202?

I know the old question will then come back and haunt me. Should I have Salisbury install the digital output with no way back? Does the VAM model make such a difference once you go digital output to nDAC or NDS/555DR?    

Chag -

Ok Chag, you've been very fortunate, and received some valuable information. It appears, you have chosen, the poor man's CD555 route.

Now tuck this under your sleeve, the average span of the Cdx2's laser optic lens, is about 9 years.

Numbers, I don't know how the charts were plotted, but a well planned Study, would have included, all three versions, the 1250, 1202, and the 1202 MKII.

My pre-loved 2008 Cdx2, hit the average, just got her back from Audio Plus last month.

When making my decision, I chose the Golden Extreme, the 1202. But has others have pointed out, they preferred the  sound of the 1250 VAM.

MK I--+1250--+ rubber o rings puck

MK I--+1202--+hard plastic puck

MK II--+1202--+hard wired

1 major Caveat, if you do decide on the 1250 VAM, Repair Cost, $$$$$.

Check it out for yourself, I reside across the pond, my source was Chris West, AvOptions.

 I Hope that helpful!

Allante93!

You should try to put your hands on a CDS2.  Sounds wonderful with a 555PS and can be had for a song.  I think it outclasses the CDX2 by quite a bit.

Skip posted:

You should try to put your hands on a CDS2.  Sounds wonderful with a 555PS and can be had for a song.  I think it outclasses the CDX2 by quite a bit.

The good old days,  win products were not only manufactured properly, but performed properly.

To bad they don't manufacture the CDS2, anymore.

BTW, what do you think about the CDS3, Naim's top loader reference CDP, before the CD555.

Just taking a Guess, but did both, the S2 & S3 share the smoother VAM 1250!

Naims evolving Sound!

CD555--+2007

CDX2.2--+2009

CD5XS--+???????--+2009

The New Digital Era of Mastering & Playback!

Allante93!

My goal would be to keep things as simple as possible. If a CDX2 equals or outperforms a CD5X + HCDR I'd prefer the one box solution. Sounds like the consensus is "outperforms" so my answer seems clear. Mind you this is pretty much a s/h blind buy proposition as no dealers in my region have a demo CDX2 or even deal with CDPs anymore. And 120 volt CDX2s are not common on the s/h market. Add to that I may have difficulty getting much for my CD5X. Oh well, talk is cheap, action may be expensive.

The CD5x (not heard the xs) and fc are very forgiving of their support, not so the CDX2 of either vintage. When I had a target rack I much prefered the 5x, switch to Fraim Lite and it's the X2, into a 282/hi/250-2, the 555ps takes it another couple of steps and a Full Fraim shelf yet another but it still wanted for a little on subtler classical music until a 552 was feeding the 250 (I didn't try the 252) nor did I try it bare on full Fraim into either preamp. With Fraim glass on isoblue my guess is the CDX2 will feel right a home but string quartets won't dominate your listening.

I did demo the CDX2.2/555ps against the CDX2.2/NDAC/555ps into a 282 and frefered the boogie of the former to the slight detail gain with the latter but bought a 2003 (staff build) instead which I think has better flow.

joerand posted:

My goal would be to keep things as simple as possible. If a CDX2 equals or outperforms a CD5X + HCDR I'd prefer the one box solution. Sounds like the consensus is "outperforms" so my answer seems clear. Mind you this is pretty much a s/h blind buy proposition as no dealers in my region have a demo CDX2 or even deal with CDPs anymore. And 120 volt CDX2s are not common on the s/h market. Add to that I may have difficulty getting much for my CD5X. Oh well, talk is cheap, action may be expensive.

Being a big Naim fan, I have on occasion brought the next proposed upgrade home for an audition which was nothing more than a foregone conclusion, only to send it back unwanted and either save my money of buy something else. The Naim badge is no guarantee. Although it is awfully attractive.  You can't form an opinion with someone else's ears. I wish you luck with it.