subwoofer with 272

Have no sub, but no problems with subs. I feel that there is another problem. ProAc in general, is very good in building speakers having a good lower end.

A friend of mine has Studio 140's and I would classify them nice, relatively cheap full range speakers.

You wrote that you get the bass once the volume is turned up.

Have you tried a PS on your 272? / NAP 300 as Power Amp?

Ps, I've seen your 2016 thread on changing from SU to 272 / 250.

Hi Ardbeg,

Forgot to add that I added a new XPSDR 4 months ago and that has improved things a lot but not quite there yet on the low volume bass experience. Agree on the proacs and they do go low. I suspect the amplification may be the issue but moving upto Nap300 is not an option, hence considering the sub. Or maybe even downgrading the d40r to d30R or other later (but i love the d40r so am reluctant to do so)

thx

There's no reason why a sub can't be used in your system, but it's hard to predict how successful it will be until you've tried it in your room. If there's anything you can do to optimise your room acoustics, I would consider doing that first. Then be prepared to try the sub in a wide variety of different positions. If you can get a loan from a dealer this would be very useful, and also save you a lot of cash if the experiment is unsuccessful.

Many active subs have the option of a high level connection, which, if using a Naim amp, should be taken from the terminals on your speakers. This is likely to use a cheaper interconnect than a low level connection from the preamp, and subjectively, is generally considered the better option for sound quality in a Naim system.

ChrisSU posted:

Many active subs have the option of a high level connection, which, if using a Naim amp, should be taken from the terminals on your speakers. This is likely to use a cheaper interconnect than a low level connection from the preamp, and subjectively, is generally considered the better option for sound quality in a Naim system.

+1

I suggest looking at two major brands, Rel or JL Audio and please not save money for a low quality Sub 

following this post with interest as a Sub is on my shopping list

I just took a REL T7 on home demo  (272/250 DR/SL2).  Tried both hi and low level inputs.  The hi level integrated well with bass extension but I couldn't balance the overall sound with the SL2.  This is likely my lack of experience, not spending enough time on placement,  or room acoustics.  Even at low volumes, with low crossover rate, the delicacy of the sound felt "masked".  I believe it could work, but in my very short and speedy demo, it wasn't for me.

Hi I use a sub with small pmc speakers .... I tested and tried various ones ..... I tried Rel S5 .... very poor integration. If your going to use a sub in musical context it is not going to be cheap.... I have a Velodyne DD10+ for a small sub it is good...it is active and has a sealed cabinet with room compensation. If I were you I would look at 2 makes SVS 13pro or Velodyne ... the SVS is about 2k and the Velodyne nearly twice that. The SVS looks awesome ... with subs it is all about integration with system and room. With music you want speed and integration .... in a perfect world I would recommend 2 subs as this will really help integration into the room. With the Velodyne I was able to roll it in with PMC's. ... you cannot hear where sub is .... it feals like all the bass comes from the PMCs. I would go active by the way ....

I used one of my JL audio Fathom 112's from home theatre in my 2 channel setup for a while,but this was when I had an SN 2,it worked really well.At the time I was using Dynaudio excite 12's as speakers,it has a sealed design and built in room calibration,with a supplied microphone.Since then,I moved the sub back to home theatre,switched to a 272/250dr,with much bigger speaker,so I don't really need a sub.Yet I still may bring it back upstairs for another try with the 272,just to see if it is something I might like,it sure did make those little monitors sound full size.The only difference I see,is the SN 2 has an actual pair of "sub outs" on the back,yet the 272 has line outs or pre outs...my dealer assured me that they are the same thing before I got the 272.

The price difference between good subs and an upgrade to NAP 300DR might not be so big.

Hi ...forgot yes the Fathoms are reputed to be excellent.....oh by the way I meant SVS 13 ultra .... with dsp....not pro...

Also the last post is correct....all this has to be weighed up in the context of better amp....

I would consider adding BK subs to your shortlist. Only had a brief listen to one, but it sounded pretty good to me and I've heard other good reports of them. Quite cheap as well.

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

A NAP 300 is cheaper.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

A NAP 300 is cheaper.

Of course, but may not be necessary. And with NAP 300 most of the above will be needed even more

Hi all,

Thanks all for the inputs and apologies for the delays ,  i am GMT plus 4 in Dubai. 

There isnt much choice of subs here  KEF, B&O, FOCAL, JBL and then Klipsch etc ....but will look for REL

I have added the XPSDR a few months ago, there was a definite  improvement with tighter bass but am still missing that slam at low vol.

By way of comparison, in an identical room and house my friends 202/150 with NDX as a recent addition and his old proacresponse2.5 speakers still have much better low end bass. even at 20%, for me it kicks in at about 40%

Thx

Hi all,

Thanks all for the inputs and apologies for the delays ,  i am GMT plus 4 in Dubai. 

There isnt much choice of subs here  KEF, B&O, FOCAL, JBL and then Klipsch etc ....but will look for REL

I have added the XPSDR a few months ago, there was a definite  improvement with tighter bass but am still missing that slam at low vol.

By way of comparison, in an identical room and house my friends 202/150 with NDX as a recent addition and his old proacresponse2.5 speakers still have much better low end bass. even at 20%, for me it kicks in at about 40%

 Ardbeg, Will look at the 300DR again as well, 

Thx

rohan posted:

I have added the XPSDR a few months ago, there was a definite  improvement with tighter bass but am still missing that slam at low vol.

I think you are searching for an impossible... Bass frequencies require way more power to be audible. Even my 600W bass amp, feeding a full stack of MesaBoogie bass speakers sounds rubbish at low volumes.

To put it differently - if you want 'slam' at low volume, at high volumes the acoustic pressure from bass will be so high, you will most likely damage the windows.

Musc is not meant to be listend to quietly 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

A NAP 300 is cheaper.

Of course, but may not be necessary. And with NAP 300 most of the above will be needed even more

Your suggestions will reveal the true capacity of the system, but he might be there by either repositioning of speakers (what ROHAN already tried), getting rid of the persian carpets, replacing the sofa by wooden benches etc ..

It must be truly disappointing to get such a nice line-up, considered as one of the sweet spots in the Naim hierarchy and then not having sufficient bass extention.

Is this the classical situation of being over-speakered?

Ardbeg10y posted:

Is this the classical situation of being over-speakered?

Possibly... I don't know the speakers, never heard them. On paper at least, they look like being more than capable and adequate for the amp.

Integrating a sub-woofer into a stero system is relatively easy (from wire-connecting point of view). But getting the sub to work well in tandem with the speakers is way more difficult.

My instinct tells me that installing a sub should be the last resort here. A lot of good ideas were presented to the OP - working systematically though all or some of them would be where I'd start.

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. 

I'm not too sure about that,  a mate has a pair & I am not impressed.  I hear a lot of mid upper bass - too much for me - but is missing the bottom end sub bass.  Playing a band we both like,  FourPlay with Nathan East,  it seems to be missing a lot of his 'B' (30Hz) string,  It is there if you listen,  but nothing like as strong as I get on mine.    

Another vote for Velodyne subs. They have a system which uses a microphone and a TV monitor feed to set up the sound at the listening position. My DD12 integrates beautifully with my N-Sats fed by my SU and is substantially flat to 25hz. Without the set up system I don't think I would have got anywhere near the result I am enjoying now. Also it was only £500 S/H - there's a few around if you search the usual places.

Pev posted: Also it was only £500 S/H - there's a few around if you search the usual places.

 

DD12 at only £500, I understand you correctly? An amazing deal

If I got a private sale of this type on the web I would think at a fraud

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

I believe it is not enough to reproduce the spectrum of frequencies that the main speakers emit at a level with an insufficient sound pressure

Ardbeg10y posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I honestly think you don't need a sub whith those speakes and such a room. If anything:

• Install an XPS DR for your N272
• Good rack if you don't have one yet
• Upgrade to SL speaker and 4DIN - XLR cables
• PowerLines on all components if you don't have them yet

A NAP 300 is cheaper.

Of course, but may not be necessary. And with NAP 300 most of the above will be needed even more

Your suggestions will reveal the true capacity of the system, but he might be there by either repositioning of speakers (what ROHAN already tried), getting rid of the persian carpets, replacing the sofa by wooden benches etc ..

It must be truly disappointing to get such a nice line-up, considered as one of the sweet spots in the Naim hierarchy and then not having sufficient bass extention.

Is this the classical situation of being over-speakered?

I have also though for a while that it is perhaps a case of being 'over speakered' . Unfortunately as there was no way to audition proac in dubai , and based on an earlier comparison i did with SF venere 3.0, PMC26 and my friends older proac2.5. I decided to go proach for the sheer musicality. I was planning to buy a new proac d30r ( again not available to audition) . Then I spotted a great preloved d40r and got that shipped  although they were considered more power hungry, thinking the 250dr would be able to handle these speakers even at low vol.

So yes it is a trifle disappointing that having spent so much for what is a sweet spot for naim, I have to plug these gaps when I just want  get on and enjoy the music at all levels....

Anyway will try to audition a few subs and perhaps NAP300 ( but then have to flog the XPSDR and 250DR and take a hit)

Local dealer has Martin Logan Dynamo 1500X, any opinions?

In the meantime will keep experimenting with placement 

No quarter posted:

I used one of my JL audio Fathom 112's from home theatre in my 2 channel setup for a while,but this was when I had an SN 2,it worked really well.At the time I was using Dynaudio excite 12's as speakers,it has a sealed design and built in room calibration,with a supplied microphone.Since then,I moved the sub back to home theatre,switched to a 272/250dr,with much bigger speaker,so I don't really need a sub.Yet I still may bring it back upstairs for another try with the 272,just to see if it is something I might like,it sure did make those little monitors sound full size.The only difference I see,is the SN 2 has an actual pair of "sub outs" on the back,yet the 272 has line outs or pre outs...my dealer assured me that they are the same thing before I got the 272.

Hi [@mention:65907191339557814], if you do try with the 272, would be interested in your outcomes...