Any left field ideas for an upgrade?

An 'upgrade' today. Running the nds/552/300 with the Kudos X2 (instead of the super 20s).

Way less top end detail and refinement. Way more fun - listening to dire straits alchemy.

The kudos X2 are probably the oldest piece of HiFi gear that I now own... 

I always loved your X2s Mango. Great tonal balance and eaqsy to enjoy. Fun = musicality. Refinement and detail can lead to analytical listening.

How about trying to find a rare Naim NAB 300 or a 250pro, compare a couple of amps made for the studio market with their commercial counterparts.

More like sell everything off and go back to a nait 5i-2. That's enough to drive the  X2s - maybe a nd5xs as source - don't want to slum it...

skip - I echo Chag's  query re herbie as I have Proac D30r (bottom downward facing bass bass port) and wonder about getting them, and which ones ?

That's why I've been hanging back on DRing the 500 having heard a similar effect at the Naim roadshow. A little loss in delicacy with a slightly harder/colder treble edge....

Michael_B. posted:

That's why I've been hanging back on DRing the 500 having heard a similar effect at the Naim roadshow. A little loss in delicacy with a slightly harder/colder treble edge....

That was in response to Chag's post: "This light touch of brightness of the 300 DR version is only to be considered in comparison, or in contrast, with the original 300 that had, I believe, somewhat of a dark or matt sound presentation that may be appreciated by the listener of classical music. The best way I found to describe the new 300 DR is that while it certainly does better each and every thing that the original 300 was doing so well, listening to it, the DR version, is like looking through the window after the rain has stopped. The streets are now gleaming whereas the asphalt used to be matt before the rain. This light touch of brightness that Martin Colloms of HiFi Critic has reported as well in his review last year, may sometimes and on some recordings, mask a small part of the counterpoint or even the texture of the timbres even though the DR is capable or rendering noticeably more details to the presentation. On the other side this touch of brightness might also contribute to more refined highs for greater transparency, airiness and layering at the end. Go figure."

On the left field front, try some big Shahinians....

MM, I think I understand where you`re going from your very first post, I`ve been there, done that. Downgrading many times for some reason, but going up again also for some reason. The search for musical satisfaction I guess.

I have found that the more revealing it gets, both electronics and speakers, problems with room acoustics are increased. If you don`t put that into the mix you will be reminded of it every time you listen to music, thinking it`s not worth the expense and so on. 

I home auditioned S20 two weeks ago and found them a bit too upfront in the start. Focal Aria worked better in that context, cheaper and less revealing maybe? I then changed the furniture from hi-fi inspired to normal inspiration and a much more functional room. A few acoustic panels and the whole room interaction/ balance changed dramatically and S20 became THE speaker.

My advice would be to work with the room acoustics or just sell off and find a setup less revealing but in balance with your room and start enjoying your music. The money left over can be spend elsewhere.

In return for this advice , can anyone tell me if S20 are my next speakers or if I should have a listen to harbeths first?

S 

Stover - I agree 100%.

whizh Harbeths are you looking at?

the ones to compete with the S20s would be the super HL5s - I haven't heard those...

Sounds more like the pursuit of a hi-fi hobby than musical nirvana. 

Well, for me it took some time to understand this mechanism, I'm also after musical satisfaction in the first place.

Stover posted:

In return for this advice , can anyone tell me if S20 are my next speakers or if I should have a listen to harbeths first?

S 

 

Very, very different sound and presentation. If you are interested, listen first. At the very least you will have satisfied your curiosity and have removed a worry.

MM - on reflection has this process you've been through aided or frustrated your love of music?

Regards,

Lindsay

Chag... posted:

Skip posted:

After a Fraim and a DR, you should check out the products at Herbie's Audio Lab.  We rebuilt my Verdier using their damping material and TT mat, and put their footers under the Verdier in lieu of the Walker footers we had used in lieu of the Verdier springs.  We also put the Herbie's Gliders under the ProAc D40 R.   This is the best value upgrade and the most significant benefit I have seen since the Fraim and DR upgrades.  For a couple hundred dollars,  I would try it under every non-Naim product in your system.  

It was totally left field for me and very beneficial.

Hi Skip;

You keep advocating for Herbie's Gliders under speakers, and ProAcs in particular. Are you using or recommending the Little Fat Glider to be placed right under the speaker's plinth, the Cone/Spike Decoupling Glider still to receive the spikes, or the Threaded Stud Glider to be screwed in replacement of the M6 spikes?

Have you had ever considered and tried the all well known Soundcare® SuperSpike?

Chag -

I use the Herbie's Giant Fat Glider to very good effect.  I have a friend, Tom Rothermel, the Vinyl Valet and former Arizona Naim dealer, who set up my turntable and Kleos SL and recommended the Herbie's products primarily to damp the Verdier.   We have the Verdier on the Fraim (sub optimal I know) and we used the Herbie's Tender Feet to isolate it from vibration in lieu of the Verdier factory springs.   The Fat Glider provides further isolation on the Proac D40R speaker.   The combination of the 500DR and the bottom firing port can get to be too much in our plaster living room.  Taken together, with the Herbie's products,  I can turn the volume up on the 500DR well past 12:00 with the needle on the platter and there is zero feedback.   No ringing at all.   The Glider mitigates the boom that occurs in the D40R when you have them too loud and too close to the wall, without bulky looking room treatment products.   These very simple  Herbie's products have made all the difference in my setup at home.    The value - price ratio is better than anything I have ever tried in the audio world.    This is the opposite of a spike which is designed to couple the product to the floor.   The Gliders de-couple and have been a great solution at my house.  60 day free trial.   

I have never tried the Soundcare SuperSpike but it looks comparable in price.   The Nordost SortFut and Symposium products may be better but for big money and very complex design.  The Fat Glider has no screw in feature.   It is just a multi-density polymer pad.    It is a lot of money for what it is, but a bargain for what it does.

Skip posted:

After a Fraim and a DR, you should check out the products at Herbie's Audio Lab.  ...  This is the best value upgrade and the most significant benefit I have seen since the Fraim and DR upgrades.  For a couple hundred dollars,  I would try it under every non-Naim product in your system.  

+1. We have Herbie's Fat Dots supporting our moderately heavy ATC SCM19 speakers on Music Works stands, and the accoustic benefit was substantial. I've never met anyone else in the UK who's even heard of them, although I frequently suggest them. Shipping, import duty and VAT makes them substantially more expensive in the UK than in the US but it was still a very cost effective, easy and substantial upgrade for us. Next time though I'd get he ones with sticky tape on one side for that particular purpose!

@Skip: I don't want to derail this thread but have a quick question about Herbie's Fat Dots. Our 272/XPS/250 (all DR) is in a BDI TV Cabinet - no vinyl anymore. It's heresy I know but since we no longer enjoy US size living accommodation, compromises have to be made and a Fraim is not going to happen. I've been thinking about some more Fat Dots to fit under our Naim equipment and I seem to recall on a different thread sometime back that you mentioned that you've done the same? I don't know if they add any incremental sonic value to the feet already fitted to the Naim equipment, so was it worthwhile and did you fit them under everything?

Thanks ...

Never tried Herbie's or any other product under Naim equipment.   I would not and would not recommend it.    You would do better to spend money on the stand itself in my opinion.  Naim always sounds just right to me and the boards on the various 500 level components are already suspended.    

I have used the Walker Audio Valid Points under tube gear and under the Verdier.  I have used Black Diamond Racing Carbon Fiber footers and shelves under my Rega P3 years ago.   These look nice but are nothing special.   I have used Naim on Fraim, Isoblue, and the Arcici Suspense Rack.   It sounds best on the Fraim.  Isoblue is pretty good but the Fraim return on investment is substantial if you have a higher end system.

Except for the Fraim, which is in a class by itself, the Herbie's are the best bang for the buck product I have found in this category.  But I have not tried Herbie's under Naim.

On the basis of this thread I have just ordered 8x Herbies brass Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders to go under my Proac D30rs. (N272 N/XPSDR/Biamp NAP250DR/HIFI racks Podium slimline). Wooden floor, room 4 x 5m All the gear is recent and ex demo 2015/16 and definitely still improving in sound, with bass and soundstage opening out. Will report back on Herbie before/after

Skip posted:

Never tried Herbie's or any other product under Naim equipment.   I would not and would not recommend it.    You would do better to spend money on the stand itself in my opinion.  Naim always sounds just right to me and the boards on the various 500 level components are already suspended.    

I have used the Walker Audio Valid Points under tube gear and under the Verdier.  I have used Black Diamond Racing Carbon Fiber footers and shelves under my Rega P3 years ago.   These look nice but are nothing special.   I have used Naim on Fraim, Isoblue, and the Arcici Suspense Rack.   It sounds best on the Fraim.  Isoblue is pretty good but the Fraim return on investment is substantial if you have a higher end system.

Except for the Fraim, which is in a class by itself, the Herbie's are the best bang for the buck product I have found in this category.  But I have not tried Herbie's under Naim.

Thanks Skip - my misunderstanding and/or memory failure. The Fraim is out purely because of interior decoration considerations - not to say that there's anything wrong with it but it wouldn't gel with our room particularly well. My wife let's me have my way with most things so I'm okay with this system compromise. 

My wife thinks the Fraim is the best looking component we have.   We get nothing but compliments on it, looks and design-wise.   And she remembers what it sounded like before, so she much prefers the Fraim sound.

Skip posted:

I use the Herbie's Giant Fat Glider to very good effect.  I have a friend, Tom Rothermel, the Vinyl Valet and former Arizona Naim dealer, who set up my turntable and Kleos SL and recommended the Herbie's products primarily to damp the Verdier.   We have the Verdier on the Fraim (sub optimal I know) and we used the Herbie's Tender Feet to isolate it from vibration in lieu of the Verdier factory springs.   The Fat Glider provides further isolation on the Proac D40R speaker.   The combination of the 500DR and the bottom firing port can get to be too much in our plaster living room.  Taken together, with the Herbie's products,  I can turn the volume up on the 500DR well past 12:00 with the needle on the platter and there is zero feedback.   No ringing at all.   The Glider mitigates the boom that occurs in the D40R when you have them too loud and too close to the wall, without bulky looking room treatment products.   These very simple  Herbie's products have made all the difference in my setup at home.    The value - price ratio is better than anything I have ever tried in the audio world.    This is the opposite of a spike which is designed to couple the product to the floor.   The Gliders de-couple and have been a great solution at my house.  60 day free trial.   

I have never tried the Soundcare SuperSpike but it looks comparable in price.   The Nordost SortFut and Symposium products may be better but for big money and very complex design.  The Fat Glider has no screw in feature.   It is just a multi-density polymer pad.    It is a lot of money for what it is, but a bargain for what it does.

Thanks again Skip for sharing your precious experience. As indicated in my e-mail, I have called Herbie’s Audio Lab as well and am now ready to push the PayPal button for these Giant Fat Gliders. I will also report on first impressions after I will have used them for a few days.

Chag -

Skip posted:

My wife thinks the Fraim is the best looking component we have.   We get nothing but compliments on it, looks and design-wise.   And she remembers what it sounded like before, so she much prefers the Fraim sound.

Well to be more accurate, my wife likes the look of the Fraim too but we have to accommodate a TV on top of the BDI cabinet plus a log burning stove with ensuing dust, in a not so large space. Given more space we'd have a Fraim in an instant.

Actually, I should correct myself as it's Tenderfoot and/or Iso-Cups that Herbie's Audio Lab recommends for amplifier and/or DAC isolation.

pjb_4465 posted:

On the basis of this thread I have just ordered 8x Herbies brass Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders to go under my Proac D30rs. (N272 N/XPSDR/Biamp NAP250DR/HIFI racks Podium slimline). Wooden floor, room 4 x 5m All the gear is recent and ex demo 2015/16 and definitely still improving in sound, with bass and soundstage opening out. Will report back on Herbie before/after

Good luck with the Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders pjb. I am anxious to read your report. It would be interesting to read your impressions over the new D30RS too. Have you had the chance to compare it with the original D30R, the D28 or any other speaker for that matter? Could you tell it is better controlled and tighter in the lows than its former issue?

Chag -  

Not a left field idea, but have you considered a left-handed idea? This TT looks great for us left-handers. I've got to assume it spins counter clockwise. Otherwise it could be useful for unmasking those hidden clues to Paul's death in several Beatles LPs while at the same time running your cantilever into rapid demise.

Chag - Sorry, my sloppy typing. I have two proac d30r making them d30rs oops. Going to be a very interesting before and after with the herbie gliders, expected late march usps first class international . I got them because my upgrade to a nap500dr, expected back from Naim towers April will bring more bass slam I want to control. The speakers on the wood flooring are near the wall for aesthetic reasons. I absolutely love my Proacs btw