Rega RP3 & Stageline source - ND5XS / NaitXS2 or NAC N 272 + NAP

i am an unhappy user of stage line with flatcap2 - or unhappy user of EAT C-Major/Ortofon Quintet Blue MC not sure which one or all...

272 digital is  "same" , in almost every record where is the " analog " sound ? i played good Blue Note 45s as well...

I like the Naim sound very much but stage line + a power source (you need one with 272 ) makes it a poor value in my opinion...also +1 cable 4/5DIN 

So maybe a 272/200 and a rega aria to keep thing less sophisticated...  maybe even better sounding

I had a ND5 XS + Nait XS, then upgraded the ND5 to a 272 (while still using the poweramp of the Nait - that was a big upgrade.  Using a 272 with a 200 or better still a secondhand 250DR will be better still.  I currently use the 272 with a 300DR (and an external PSU on the 272) the result is superb in every way I can think.

I would wholeheartedly recommend the 272 route, particularly if you can upgrade the poweramp and 272 PSU at a later date; the 272 is capable of keeping up with some very high quality gear - indeed Naim consider the 250DR it's natural partner, it's that good.

Also don't worry about the analogue preamp side of the 272, that's also way better than the XS preamp.

Hi Holmes,
The ND5 XS + Nait XS + Proac 140 Mk II does have to look of a balanced system.  More importantly, you have heard it and like it.  So, I would only go for an alternative if you can audition it first.  Be wary of making a leap that appears great on paper unless you can actually hear it for yourself.  This is where your dealer is invaluable.

When considering pre-power options, the question of budget is an important real world consideration.  A 272/250DR should sound absolutely marvellous with your Proacs.  However, how many times more expensive is it in NZ than the ND5 XS + Nait XS?  Perhaps a more comparably priced alternative might be a 272/NAP100?  Our modest old NAP140 power amp can drive Proac 140 speakers fine and is surprisingly close to an olive NAP250 in that respect, really only losing half an octave of deep bass and its ultimate control.  So, if you go down this path, put the money into the pre-amp rather than the power amp.

Each option will need a separate phono stage.  You could do a lot worse than to use a Rega phono stage with your Rega RP3.  The Aria is really excellent and should last you a lifetime of upgrades up to and including an RP10 and Alpheta 2.  It does cost more than an RP3 though!

A classic Naim alternative might be an ND5 SX, plus 32.5 (or 72) with internal phono cards, a hicap and a NAP140.  If your dealer happens to have one of these, then this would give you an affordable, future proofed and depreciation proofed pathway to musical heaven!

Happy auditioning, FT

I believe a 272 won't power a stageline, so a power supply would be required if you go that route. I.e. Adds some more expense. If you are prepared to spend more and increase the possible uppgrade paths stageline/nd5/152/155xs might be a good alternative option.

A little powered Rega phono stage is all that's required really. The 272 will be miles better than an ND5 and 152. 

yes, the Rega Fono should be fine -- but for a little more dough, the OP could have a Dynavector P75 phono stage, which would be fantastic and see him through any future changes he might wish to make WRT his turntable.

i too think that a 272 + a s/h amp is the way to go. a (non-DR) 200 or 250.2 can be had for reasonable money and would put those Proacs through their paces!

Hi Holmes,

you already have the Stageline, right? If you take the pre/power route, think about the power supply to get it going. The 272 cannot power the Stageline, a 202 or 282 could. A Flatcap or Hicap would do the job as well.

How about the NDX and SN2? Both are one step above the XSes in the lineup. If your dealer has these two, give them a try. And the SN2 can power the Stageline.

The most important thing is to listen and trust your own ears.

Thanks for all the replies.

I will certainly review the choice of stageline as the phono amp, it's part of the system that I thought was an easy decision with the rest being Naim. So I will demo the Aria / Fono / Stageline for sure, as that seems to keep the 272 route open cost wise.

Emre - What's your amp / speaker combo, that gives you disappointing results with the stageline?

Foot Tapper - Good point, the system I've heard is good and a bird in the hand and all that. If I go 272 it probably means second hand power amp for now so I'll have to see what I can listen to before taking that path. 

Mulberry -  Adding a power supply is cost prohibitive right now. It seems folk leap the SN2 when upgrading from a NaitXS

Huge - Did you consider upgrading the ND5XS to NDX / SN2 ? before going 272?

FWIW, when I got into Naim with a 112/150/FX2X, for my existing 2000-ish Planar3/Elys, I preferred the Fono to the StageLine.  

I upgraded the Elys to Exact a few years ago, and bought a second hand Aria last month, mostly so I can experiment with MC and, possibly, a TT change.  

All the same, the Planar3 continues to please -- so much better than my old Beogram 2000, and idler-Duals of old.  The VFM is hard to beat.

Nick

Hi Holmes, you mentioned that your priorities are both vinyl and streaming. I have a 1985 Rega Planar 3 which I have regularly serviced and use the white drive band (rather then the black one). The biggest boost to performance has been to change the old DC motor to the Rega 24v AC and add the TT PSU to it (both official Rega upgrades). My dealer who did the conversion for me (stocks both Rega and Naim) reckons it gives a very similar quality to the RP6. Just a thought.

Mike

Mike1960 posted:

I have a 1985 Rega Planar 3 which I have regularly serviced

What exactly is involved with regular servicing of a Planar 3?

As far as the RP3, once you do the TTPSU + subplatter upgrades, you're essentially at the cost of a RP6. As far as the white belt "upgrade", I did it on my RP6. Couldn't hear a bit of difference from the original belt. Granted, the white belt seems more durable.

Hi Joe, servicing usually involves checking the main bearing to the platter. This needs oiling and also eventually wears out. Frequency would depend on use, but I would say every 3-5 years now that streaming is my main source. The drive belts eventually stretch too. I am not sure I could tell when I switched from black to white but as you say it does seem more durable and the black belt was routinely changed at service time too.

As to cost, I paid ₤188-00 in 1987 (not 1985 as I wrote before) for my Planar 3. The motor upgrade and TT PSU were approx A$650-00 so significantly cheaper than upgrading to a RP6 (A$1725-00 here with no cartridge), and the OP has a 18 yr old RP3 so is worth considering if the arm is in good condition.

As an aside Rega's support is excellent too. One of the hinges on my turntable lid eventually wore out and broke. Rega replaced the lid with a brand new one. I just paid local postage rates only.

A good indicator of the success of the upgrade is that I almost exclusively played my ND5XS before, whereas now I would say that I use the Rega again for 20-30% of my listening.

Mike

Thanks for the response Mike. My RP6 is approaching 5 years so I'll have to look into the oiling needs. Good to know about the hinges as I keep my dust cover on at all times.

As far as I know, the RP3 was introduced circa 2011 so the OP has less than a six year old deck.

Holmes posted:

 

...

Huge - Did you consider upgrading the ND5XS to NDX / SN2 ? before going 272?

No, that would not have given the ideal balance for my system.

I need to go for a system that presents detail at low to mid listening levels, and the 272 + TXPS / 250DR is better at that than the SN2.

I also didn't know whether I'm keeping my speakers, and one of the options is ATC, probably the 19s.  These really benefit from a 250 or higher poweramp; the SN2, good as it is, won't cope quite so well.

Also if you have speakers that are really easy to drive (as are my present ones) then in many ways the SN2 is only a relatively small step up from the XS + a DR preamp power supply, so the SN2 could only ever have been a stepping stone for me.  Once I decided to upgrade from the XS 2, the minimum endpoint for me based on an NDX would have been NDX + TXPS / 282 + TCap / 250DR and that's quite a bit more expensive than 272 + TXPS / 250DR and a lot less convenient, but probably also a somewhat better system.

When the 300(DR) (a s/h upgraded 300) came up for only a little more than a new 250DR, my decision was confirmed.

Just the kind of feedback I'm after and I do have an upgrade in mind but after the Naim amp and streamer are in place...

It is an 18 year old Planar 3 and I had it serviced locally about 2.5 years ago with a new black belt, oiled bearing and carbon cartridge, those motor and power supply upgrades are both affordable, but I suspect that when it gets to that, I may go with the next model up the line at the time.

However I'm pretty sure that the amp and speakers aren't getting out what the RP3 has to offer at the moment. Ripping vinyl to FLAC via the tape out to an 8 year old Macbook pro using Audacity, seems to reveal more when heard on my Fiio X1 and AKG Q701's than I get out of the speakers, although strapping headphones on is bound to be different I guess. 

So you're using RP3 and Planar 3 interchangeably

Hi Mr Holmes,

If you get more detail after ripping with the ADC in a Macbook Pro then you're definitely not getting the best from your RP3 or your system.  Computer ADCs tend to be rather limited in quality: Your RP3 deserves better than that!

I suppose it depends on what your main source for listening is as with the ND5XS & Rega P3 you have two very capable midrange sources but if you preferred one format over the other you could spend more on that.  If you prefer streaming then the 272 is considered better than the ND5XS but if you prefer vinyl then you could either by a higher end deck or spend some money upgrading your own deck and go with the ND5XS.  I own an ND5XS and it is perfect for my needs but my main preferred source is vinyl and I would always upgrade my deck, phono stage or amps first.

Holmes posted:

Thanks for all the replies.

I will certainly review the choice of stageline as the phono amp, it's part of the system that I thought was an easy decision with the rest being Naim. So I will demo the Aria / Fono / Stageline for sure, as that seems to keep the 272 route open cost wise.

Emre - What's your amp / speaker combo, that gives you disappointing results with the stageline?

Foot Tapper - Good point, the system I've heard is good and a bird in the hand and all that. If I go 272 it probably means second hand power amp for now so I'll have to see what I can listen to before taking that path. 

Mulberry -  Adding a power supply is cost prohibitive right now. It seems folk leap the SN2 when upgrading from a NaitXS

Huge - Did you consider upgrading the ND5XS to NDX / SN2 ? before going 272?

i am using 272/555PSDR/Sopra 2

i am not blaming stageline ( maybe it is my turntable maybe it is the power supply on stageline ) but the sound is not better than digital end of 272.. so i keep asking why did i spend all that money on a turntable...

you need a PS for stageline, natural partner will be a hicap and makes stageline an almost 2000£ phono stage...

you can do much better with that money.... or just get rega aria with your rega....

joerand posted:

So you're using RP3 and Planar 3 interchangeably

Apologies joerand for 18 years I've been referring to the Rega Planar 3 as my RP3 what am I missing? :-)

Hey Bob The Builder, now there's a thought and it that has been niggling, with thinking the amp should be the first move, but I want the streaming to explore more music (and perhaps decide what records to buy!) and that's why I started questioning the amp choice / other amp options, which quickly lead to the >NAP200... 

I guess I won't really know what my preferred source is until I get a streamer running. I still plan on buying vinyl and have 400+ albums I will keep going back to, so I guess I don't want to take the deck upgrades so far that the quality of my well loved records starts to bother me, so there will be a limit to my system not far beyond upgrades to the current deck rather than moving up the deck and cartridge line too much further. There's so much more to get out of what I have before I do that.

I like sound of getting more low end detail that people speak about with the NAC N 272 and since I'm a bit of a bass head, with a love of Jazz bass lines, roots, dub, afrobeat, soul, funk and electronic break beats etc. I must have a listen...

I can't speak for the 272 but the bass that my LP12 pulls out of a record groove is beautiful, round and resonant especially from the double bass, listening to Miles Davis - A Kind of Blue always puts a huge smile on my face.  I'm a basshead too and have never heard a digital source that can match a vinyl source for bass but compared to some my experience with high end digital sources are limited I have though had demo's with an NDX and Chord Hugo and wouldn't swap my Record Player for either and that is purely because of the bass.

Bob, yes the low bass frequencies from a good TT are inherently "beautiful, round and resonant" due to the mechanical resonances in the system and the compression/expansion in the RIAA curve, sadly though, it's less accurate than digital, and can sound "beautiful, round and resonant" even when it shouldn't.

If you like that sound, then that's to what you should listen, but please do be aware that, to some degree it's actually a colouration, albeit a pleasant one.

Huge posted:

Bob, yes the low bass frequencies from a good TT are inherently "beautiful, round and resonant" due to the mechanical resonances in the system and the compression/expansion in the RIAA curve, sadly though, it's less accurate than digital, and can sound "beautiful, round and resonant" even when it shouldn't.

If you like that sound, then that's to what you should listen, but please do be aware that, to some degree it's actually a colouration, albeit a pleasant one.

Agreed Huge , the LP12 is well known for its colouration and for that reason not well liked by some and again as you rightly say it is down to personal preference.  As a loose rule I think that music recorded digitally sounds best on a digital source and vice versa analogue and so it is always best to own both sources which one you prefer is the one you should spend the most money on.  If it is vinyl then my biggest piece of advise to the OP is by a decent Record Cleaner.

"Holmes posted:

Apologies joerand for 18 years I've been referring to the Rega Planar 3 as my RP3 what am I missing? :-)

Quoting product line from Wikipedia History. The record player has been through four principal guises: Planar 3 (1977–2000) (2016-), P3 (2000–2007), P3-24 (2007–2012) and RP3 (2012-2016).

Hence the confusion, but RP3 is obviously easier to say and write, even if technically incorrect.

Mike

And the very lastest version is, again, the Planar 3.