New N272/NAP200DR or s/h NAC282, NDX and NAP200

I just purchased a N272 to partner my 250DR. I auditioned this with both the XPS DR and 555 DR power supplies. My intention was to audition these against a NDX / 282 / Hicap DR but got so captivated by the N272 / 555 DR combination feeding the 250 DR I decided not to go any further and that is what I went with.  I auditioned this with a range of speakers including Kudos Super 20s, PMC five/23s and Kudos X2s and the 272/555/250 combination shone with all these speakers.

The sound quality for a three box solution did it for me as with the other route I would likely have ended up with a power supply for the NDX creating a six box solution.  

I would say if box count does not worry you then NDX/282/200 all day long and if later on you wish to add Power Supplies to the 282 or the NDX it only gets better.  I don't think anyone could argue that a 272 would beat an NDX/282 for sound but the two box solution of a 272/200DR is a very attractive solution to some and I doubt you would be disappointed by the music it makes.

I'm not going to advise which, as it depends on your attitude to boxes, wires and future upgrading. All I'd say is that a 200DR is pointless with the self powered 272 and a used 200 will be just as good. And I wouldn't use a 282 without a Hicap. And finally, if the secondhand set is in budget, try it against the 272/250DR. The 250DR is much, much better than the 200. I chose what I have because I only wanted three boxes and two mains leads, and I like the volume control on the 272. 

Bob the Builder posted:

...  I don't think anyone could argue that a 272 would beat an NDX/282 for sound but the two box solution of a 272/200DR is a very attractive solution to some and I doubt you would be disappointed by the music it makes.

Indeed, 'sound' vs 'music'...(In my experience) I might argue that the 272/250DR makes better music than the NDX/282. Surprising.

G

I've heard a NDX/282/Hicap and 272/XPS and couldn't really tell them apart, though of course the XPS is in the mix. As I said, it's probably more about logistics than absolute sound quality. Both are very good. 

Well in my opinion both the NDX and 272 need a XPS2 to sound their best.   As to the best option it's all been discussed on here. 

Regards,

Lindsay

You're quite right, Lindsay. The only thing you missed was ad infinitum at the end. 

The two elements that led to my decision was firstly the sound from the 272/555/250 combination was truly captivating. The second was that once I settle on my speakers I want to forget about buying hi fi and just enjoy the music.

If I got the NDX / 282 / Hicap option to go with my 250 I would have been wanting to get a power supply for the NDX and be wondering what a supercap would do for the 282. So something else to consider, outside of the box count, is whether you want to continue to invest in your hi fi over time to get to a higher level of performance - which could be a better path if hi fi is your hobby.

alanbass1 posted:

The two elements that led to my decision was firstly the sound from the 272/555/250 combination was truly captivating. The second was that once I settle on my speakers I want to forget about buying hi fi and just enjoy the music.

If I got the NDX / 282 / Hicap option to go with my 250 I would have been wanting to get a power supply for the NDX and be wondering what a supercap would do for the 282. So something else to consider, outside of the box count, is whether you want to continue to invest in your hi fi over time to get to a higher level of performance - which could be a better path if hi fi is your hobby.

I am with you Alan,I was going to get an xpsdr for my 272/250dr,but decided to hold off until I can afford the 555dr...just to be sure I was getting the absolute most out of my set up.I started with a UQ 2 and the Iota's myself,and here I am,almost done with upgrades.I still have the Iota's,is that all you use with your gear?Are you going to upgrade the speakers at some point,or do you also use a sub?I tried my Iota's with the 272/250dr and JL 112 sub,quite excellent.The point is,at some point you have to shut down this upgrade bug,and the 282 combo leaves that door wiiiiide open.

With all the talk about the NAC 282 leaving the door wide open to upgrade bug, I believe it is just a matter of managing one's willpower other than the gear's affordability which is dependent on one's finances. The NAC 282 and Hicap DR are the endgame in my system for me.

Yes,but you could jump to a super cap,which opens the door for a 252.Also the NDX can be upgraded too with power supplies,some people don't have the willpower to resist the urge.

To my ears, there is no contest - NDX/282/200 sounds better than 272/200. It's worth bearing in mind that in those configurations, the 282 will benefit from the DR power supply in the 200DR, whereas the 272 will not.

I don't get this thing about one system being open to upgrade temptation where another is not. All systems have upgrade potential, the only limiting factor is the size of your wallet, and your own self control.

Yes, that is true. Although I am aware there are better things beyond the NAC 282, there will always be something that's even better, not only within Naim. I think the more important issue is to be happy with what you have in the system, to be able to enjoy music from the system as it is. In that way, the urge to try something new will diminish or cease to exist. Somehow I understand folks may want to explore new frontiers at some point in their lives, to figure out how the Supercap would sound like next to the Hicap, or the NAC 552 relative to the 252 etc.

I have read on another forum about folks who had lived with Naim for over 20 years wanting to try something new, particularly a NAC 252 user who is now moving to Vitus. Personally I don't think the person is dissatisfied with the Naim system as he has lived with it for a long time. Sometimes people just want to try something new as it gets bored once in a while. It's not only hifi but everything else in life.

I will throw a curve ball...

NDX can be upgraded with an external DAC, powered by an external PSU - NDX + nDAC + 555 PS make for a formidable source.
N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

Adam Zielinski posted:

N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

Hmmm....now you've got me thinking....you can add an external DAC. Then you need to add a preamp to make it work. Then a PSU for the preamp. Oh, what the hell, might as well get a PSU for the DAC as well. 6 months later, you know what? The streamer is now the weakest link, so....

These Naim marketing people are cleverer than you think, Adam 

Me? Think??? That is an overstatement of the century, Chris 

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will throw a curve ball...

NDX can be upgraded with an external DAC, powered by an external PSU - NDX + nDAC + 555 PS make for a formidable source.
N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

 

I have added a ndac to the ndx and the difference shows the weakness of the ndx

Yes,you CAN add an external dac to the 272,but then things start getting redundant...I am thinking Uniti Core,digital out to a Chord Dave,to Analog in on the 272,you are right,it never ends.

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will throw a curve ball...

NDX can be upgraded with an external DAC, powered by an external PSU - NDX + nDAC + 555 PS make for a formidable source.
N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

 

Bad Adam...bad!!!! (Waves the rolled up newspaper.)

buy the new 272 and used 200...

when funds permit sell the 200 and go for a 250DR

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will throw a curve ball...

NDX can be upgraded with an external DAC, powered by an external PSU - NDX + nDAC + 555 PS make for a formidable source.
N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

 

it is not the best VFM source that you can get..... how many people might compare this quartet with a Hugo and keep the Hugo/PC?  

NDX and Supernait 2 with PMC FB1 speakers. Good enough to last me out. Only thing I buy now is new music.

Streaming not being my primary source I've always been reasonably happy with the ND5XS, Ive considered upgrades but have always decided it sounds pretty good as is however when the Hugo 2 comes out prices for original Hugos might come down to a level where my curiosity fits snugly inside my wallet.........

ChrisSU posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

N272 cannot be upgraded with an external DAC. 'Only' a PSU can be added.

Hmmm....now you've got me thinking....you can add an external DAC. Then you need to add a preamp to make it work. Then a PSU for the preamp. Oh, what the hell, might as well get a PSU for the DAC as well. 6 months later, you know what? The streamer is now the weakest link, so....

These Naim marketing people are cleverer than you think, Adam 

Actually I'd go the opposite way, once you've added a PSU to the 272, it become a superb preamp in it's own right...

So if I wanted to replace the DAC in a 272 I'd get a simple DACless streamer such as a microRendu and DAC like the Hugo 2 and feed that into the 272 acting as a preamp.

Ah, so many options!  

Jeroen20 posted:

Hi,

I am in the market for a new N272 and NAP200DR.
Now I also have the opportunity to buy a second hand NAC282, NDX and NAP200 (non DR). The price is a bit more then a new N272 / NAP200DR set.
I am wondering what the smart thing to do is. The second hand set is 3 years old.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Jeroen.

Hi it depends where you think you'll go on your journey. If you think you will put in and forget the 272 might be the better and more compact option. If you have an eye to future upgrades and probably leaning more to absolute SQ then the NDX/282 would be what I recommend. The 282 is a superb preamp, and the first of the Naim  greats IMO (282/252/552/Statement). Also at some point not too far away perhaps there will be a NDX2 /NDS2 building on the new Uniti architecture (which is quite different and a big step forward in my opinion from the current streamers) so my view is perhaps unless my first point is very compelling for you then don't put all your eggs in one basket with the 272

I think despite the 200 being very capable you will itch to get a 250 of one sort .. in my experience it's quite a performance lift with higher spec preamps.

Finally I really don't think you neccessarily need a PSU on the NDX to enjoy it, its very good natively, especially with higher spec preamps.. I can't comment on the 272 PSU.