SL2 tweeter occillation

After ensuring they are sitting nice and level, torquing the bolts, making sure the uprights are straight, getting the tweeter flush with the plate with an even circular "gap" and nice oscillation is one of the few tweeks that I do on a regular basis - maybe two or three times a year. But it is worth it although non SL2 owners may think it a bit OTT

Ron Brinsdon posted:

But it is worth it although non SL2 owners may think it a bit OTT

As a non SL2 owner, NO not worth consideration owning such a speaker on my end.  And the "need" for such machinations is far more than a bit OTT, really quite absurd. No wonder Naim is out of the speaker business.

It's just a loudspeaker after all and shouldn't require any degree of anal retentive dicking with to play its best. After more than five years of ownership with my Totem Sttafs they've shined through every upgrade I've put them through and sound better with each. No torqueing, no flush with the plate. no evening gaps or attention to oscillations required. They merely sit and sing their best without need for maintenance. I suppose the majority of loudspeakers do the same.

Speaking as someone who's heard SL2s and aspires to own a pair, this looks well worth it to me and not in the slightest OTT.

C.

My SL2s have sat happily in my living room since August 2015 and have needed no tweaking whatsoever. The main speaker rocks back and forth, the tweeter oscillates perfectly and all gaps are as they should be, and the cables are not fouling anything. That said, the OP has found an issue that could affect others and as such it's a really helpful post. 

I have had a pair for about a year. I did notice the bolts loosen slightly over time, presumably vibration. Worth checking them periodically.

I do not understand how doing a bit of maintenance to something that does after all having moving parts is such an 'absurd' thing. Takes all of 2 minutes.

Bruce

On any loudspeaker where there's a good deal of vibration that is being presumably being either absorbed or channelled, it's a good idea to periodically check bolt tightness.  The bolts securing drivers can often loosen off through the combined effects of vibration and atmospheric effects on materials (particularly wood).  Naim tighten their main drive unit bolts to 3.6Nm, so once a year it's a good idea to just check them. The same applies to any other make of speaker, although you would need to check with them whether they specify a torque figure, or just "tight but not overly tight"...

Of course, with SL2s you have rather more bolts to contend with (don't forget the interface plate bolts), but it only adds a few more minutes to the job...

Hungryhalibut posted:

OP has found an issue that could affect others and as such it's a really helpful post. 

Really helpful? Really? What the OP describes would be to the objective observer a flaw in speaker design. Somehow this "issue" gets rationalized into a positive. As I stated above - no wonder Naim is out of the speaker business.

Moderated Post:  Joe, you know why.  Unacceptable.

Joe - Jonn simply posted an observation with the intention of helping fellow owners, so yes, I think it's really helpful. I don't see my response as rationalising an issue into a positive. Little things can go awry with all systems, whether it be wobbly racks, dodgy connections, interference between cables, and anything any of us can do to help others get the best from the investment they have made from their hard earned cash has got to be good. 

Oohh Jo,

all the 'ibbles and SL2s have a depth of design and engineering that still amazes me. I love them personally and wish they were still in production or at least better supported in terms of parts. If I owned the 2s I would have checked them and hence found the post helpful.

No problem if you dislike Naim speakers, but many of us do!

Stu

joerand posted:

Ron Brinsdon posted:

But it is worth it although non SL2 owners may think it a bit OTT

As a non SL2 owner, NO not worth consideration owning such a speaker on my end.  And the "need" for such machinations is far more than a bit OTT, really quite absurd. No wonder Naim is out of the speaker business.

It's just a loudspeaker after all and shouldn't require any degree of anal retentive dicking with to play its best. After more than five years of ownership with my Totem Sttafs they've shined through every upgrade I've put them through and sound better with each. No torqueing, no flush with the plate. no evening gaps or attention to oscillations required. They merely sit and sing their best without need for maintenance. I suppose the majority of loudspeakers do the same.

Naim designed the SL2 for optimum sound. I'm sure they wouldn't have bothered with the design quirks if that wasn't the case as one of the reasons for the demise of the SL2 was because some dealers found them difficult to set up, particularly if they needed to shift them around. I think the other reason was because they were expensive to make so the profit margin wasn't particularly high.

Once set-up and installed they require no adjustment apart from occasionally checking torques and cable alignment- perhaps half an hour a couple of times a year. Something I'm perfectly happy to do as they sound excellent.

I was amused by reference to "anal retentive dicking with to play at its best" as according to your profile you saw fit to dick around with your Isoblue with glass,nuts and balls. (To name but a few body parts )

I don't know, this kind of maintenance makes this hobby kind of interesting, even fun in a way, you get to know your system intimately inside and out.

I don't think it would be a problem for me as long as the speakers performance was worth the trouble, but I definitely could see it being a problem for some. 

I remember hearing NBL's when they first were released and thinking what I needed to do to have these speakers, I really thought they were the best speaker I ever heard. Then reality set in, the problem was their price, and I remember thinking that the cost of the speaker was more a result of all the mechanical aspects of the design rather than the overall acoustics of the speaker.

Yes it was a very nice sounding speaker, but other more conventional designs sounded just as good for much less. I think that had more to do with the dismal number of Naim speakers sold than any tweaking that needed to be done.

They sold about 250 pairs of NBLs. I've never been able to find out how many pairs of SL2s there are though. I heard somewhere that the amount of profit from them was zero, and they may even have made a loss. I'm not sure if that's right though. 

The sound of the speakers also had something to do with their demise, popularity. Lets not kid ourselves now.

The reasons Naim stopped making 'speakers are obviously complex.

I was always under the impression that people with non-Naim systems assumed they were not for them. Rules out a fair chunk of the market.

Hard to set up for demo maybe another factor, certainly the dealer who sold me my SBLs told me that was a big issue for a 'passing' customer wanting a shop demo. Unless they were left permanently installed or it had been planned ahead it was too time consuming to get them in place so they could be given a fair showing.

Having had Credo, SBL, Sl2, nSub and nSat at various times I think it is a real pity Naim did not push the latter model as an 'ordinary' but very fine speaker in an albeit crowded market suitable for all sorts of applications and systems. Lovely little things. Never needed adjustment either!

Might have convinced a few that Naim was a serious and mainstream loudspeaker manufacturer if it had caught on widely? 

Bruce

I am missing something here, who makes the Naim Ovator series of loudspeakers?

Gazza posted:

I am missing something here, who makes the Naim Ovator series of loudspeakers?

 

Well it was Naim until they stopped production. 

OK got it, Focal or nothing from Naim ,pity their website is not up to date.

badlands posted:

The sound of the speakers also had something to do with their demise, popularity. Lets not kid ourselves now.

What we will never know, however, is what % of those dems that resulted in potential buyers disliking SL2s were attributable to badly set up speakers.

We do know that set up is a great deal in NaimWorld, in general though.

C.

In general, this being a Naim forum, I love hearing about experiences people have with their gear, more so if I own them.

And yes, a Naim system can be a little like a train set if you want it to be, and to me, that is part of the fun.  Would you want a component that no matter what you did to it the sound never changed?  I like the ability to dial things in to my ear, in my room.  And while it might drive some crazy, isn't that a part of why we chose Naim in the first place?  To deliver music.

So what then? Other speakers are designed for less than optimum sound?

The dealers themselves had difficulty setting up the SL2s. So what's to be expected from the home user?

Jonn posted:

I was amused by reference to "anal retentive dicking with to play at its best" as according to your profile you saw fit to dick around with your Isoblue with glass,nuts and balls. (To name but a few body parts )

 Speakers not one of the system parts I expect to need to dick with. A rack on the other hand, sure, I'll dick with a rack.

joerand posted:

Ron Brinsdon posted:

But it is worth it although non SL2 owners may think it a bit OTT

As a non SL2 owner, NO not worth consideration owning such a speaker on my end.  And the "need" for such machinations is far more than a bit OTT, really quite absurd. No wonder Naim is out of the speaker business.

It's just a loudspeaker after all and shouldn't require any degree of anal retentive dicking with to play its best. After more than five years of ownership with my Totem Sttafs they've shined through every upgrade I've put them through and sound better with each. No torqueing, no flush with the plate. no evening gaps or attention to oscillations required. They merely sit and sing their best without need for maintenance. I suppose the majority of loudspeakers do the same.

I have Allaes and they are easier to set up than sL2's. But the end result really depends much on the bass cabinet alignment on the pips which is quite annoying. Touching them accidently will immediatly results in sounding out of focus.  

Your posts seems odd, Robin. Are you actually happy with your Naim set? You've had more record players, cartridges and phonostages than most of us have had hot dinners.

C.

Christopher_M posted:

Your posts seems odd, Robin. Are you actually happy with your Naim set? You've had more record players, cartridges and phonostages than most of us have had hot dinners.

C.

yes i'm happy but there are Naim oddities which are annoying.  

Robiwan posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Your posts seems odd, Robin. Are you actually happy with your Naim set? You've had more record players, cartridges and phonostages than most of us have had hot dinners.

C.

yes i'm happy but there are Naim oddities which are annoying.  

I just call them idoosyncracies and consider them a price worth paying for good music at home.

C.