What is the difference between unitserve and uniticore ?

To be honest, I think there will not be too much of a difference between the two units from a features standpoint. The way in which these units can be operated; the UnitiServe has an internal HDD or SSD but these can't be changed by the end-user in case of a drive failure, the Uniti Core gives the user more freedom in which type and size of drive will be used.

Furthermore, the new Uniti Core has a better internal power supply ...

I've did not had the opportunity to compare the two units side-by-side... 

Thanks and do they both act as a uPNP streamer, and can you change the software they use to stream files ?

They use Naim's own upnp server, so you could not run, say, Minimserver or Asset. If you are not that worried about the ripping ability, you could also consider a good NAS, running either of the upnp servers I mentioned. You'd get the same result for under £500 and I'm my experience with more flexibility and great ease of use. 

HH is right!

Right so you cant configure the uPNP server, I dont really like being tied to the uPnp server so what does it actually do then really ?. Is it just a good quality harddrive but one that ties you to using their own upnp server ?

Actaully, if you are using an external hard drive anyway connected to the uniti then I cant see what they offer at all ?

I also read something about it not storing info like artist and album for wavs in the file themselves do does that mean if I have some CD's already ripped to Wav that Naim will show them without any of the artist/abum/artwork information ?

The main difference between the Unitiserve and the Uniticore is that the former is an old product which is end of life and the Core is a new product only just released with a development map in front of it.

The Unitiserve does also do internet radio, which the Core doesn't.

It is as HH describes, so the answer to the question "what do they offer?" Is basically that it's a one box solution that looks nice and you don't have to mess around with a PC to rip your CDs. I thinks it's worth having, HH doesn't. Neither of us is absolutely right or wrong.

On your question about WAVs, there is no standardised way of storing metadata on WAVs and Naim have their own way of doing it which involves a metadata file that lives in the album folder with the audio files. Generally in this forum people suggest ripping to FLAC and transcoding to WAV on playback. Unless you ripped your WAVs on a Naim ripper/server, I think you may well find the metadata is a bit flaky when you import them into a Unitiserve or UnitiCore unless you do some prep work first.

best

David

Thanks David I didnt realize that Uniticore replaces the Unitiserve as they are both on the website.

So what happens if the Uniticore cannot match a disc when ripped ?

if Uniticore only supports this other metadata method then what prep work can I possibly do to my files to wavs so that naim will read the information ?

Strictly I don't think Naim have withdrawn the Unitiserve yet, but the Core is only just released.

if the Core can't find any data when it's ripping then I think you will have an unknown album and you will have to edit the metadata after ripping, which isn't yet a released feature. I think finding no data is pretty unlikely, but the metadata being not as you want it on some rips is a near certainty.

I'm not an expert on what pre-transfer editing you might do, but for example the Core looks for cover art stored as a file with a specific name of "folder.jpg". (I thought this had been changed in the Core but this is what the on line user manual is saying right now.) I believe you also should have the files organised as an artist folder and then name of album folder with the music files and cover art inside the name of album folder. If you upload a different structure, the Core will get it wrong.

best

David

Thanks Dave, I just searched for the manual online but couldn't find it - do you have a link ?

Is manually editing something they are actually going to add , if it something like Flac can I just look at the files as a network share and edit them with my favourite app. But I wont be able to do that with Wav if they dont support Wav metadata. It does seem there is support for Wav metadata now in a number of applications.

Peter Lambert posted:

Thanks Dave, I just searched for the manual online but couldn't find it - do you have a link ?

Is manually editing something they are actually going to add , if it something like Flac can I just look at the files as a network share and edit them with my favourite app. But I wont be able to do that with Wav if they dont support Wav metadata. It does seem there is support for Wav metadata now in a number of applications.

The "manual" is a set of wizards. There is a sticky near the top of the streaming forum with a link to it or you go to the Core product page and go all the way down to the bottom and click on Support.

Yes they have said they will add metadata editing for ripped CDs by the end of March. You can't or at least must not edit ripped metadata from outside the Core because you risk breaking the indexing and losing the lot. Naim warn about this often. But you can edit downloaded music or rips that have been done other than in a Naim ripper by editing the files held in the Downloads folder of the Core. The app probably won't itself allow editing of metadata in the downloads folder, for the reason that it can't know for sure what it is you are trying to edit.

best

David

I'm with HH. Remember that to actually see anything on the Core or Serve you will need a laptop/PC anyway, so may as well rip there and send over to a NAS for a lot less $. I don't even rip on my aging Vortexbox anymore because I found dbPoweramp on my Mac laptop to be so much faster, more accurate, and easier to adjust data than the VB. I would only op for the Core if I was to use it as a direct player. Even then many lesser $ options around. Sorry Naim, I love you anyways....

charlesphoto posted:

...I would only op for the Core if I was to use it as a direct player. Even then ...

True, but for this use case it would make sense if the Core had a wireless interface: not everyone wants to put up a wired connection only to send pause, resume and stop controls to a direct player. As it is now, the Core seems to me a regression w.r.t. the US which, in turn, was not a very useful piece of equipment either, in my view.

charlesphoto posted:

I'm with HH. Remember that to actually see anything on the Core or Serve you will need a laptop/PC anyway, so may as well rip there and send over to a NAS for a lot less $. I don't even rip on my aging Vortexbox anymore because I found dbPoweramp on my Mac laptop to be so much faster, more accurate, and easier to adjust data than the VB. I would only op for the Core if I was to use it as a direct player. Even then many lesser $ options around. Sorry Naim, I love you anyways....

I'm not really sure what you mean here?  "To see anything on the Core or Serve you will need a laptop/PC anyway..."

Why do you need a laptop/PC exactly?

best

David

To use the DTC in order to do the more complex operations of the Serve you need a computer. I believe you can do a lot more with the Core, directly from the app. So I'm not sure how dependent on having a computer it is. 

But unless you use it direct to a Dac, or have thousands of CDs to rip, it seems a totally pointless thing. It baffles me why people are buying them, especially as nearly every post seems to be about something that doesn't work properly. But if people want to waste their money it's their business. And Naim can use the proceeds to invest in developing something genuinely useful. 

Yup, bad wording on my part. I meant to say access the file for going beyond what the Core will give you by default. Keywording is important. For example ripping a box set right now of complete albums, but I want the lps to appear as their originals, not the art work from or generic box set titling. I'm not sure how much of this you can do from the Naim iOS app. 

Thanks found the link https://www.naimaudio.com/uniti-support but it definently glosses over the metadata stuff.

From what I have read you create a disk as a Music Store and then this has two sections, one section for when your directly rip Cd's on the Uniti, and one area called Downloads where any already ripped files are added. Then from what I understand Uniti creates a view of these files that is then served over uPNP. If you want to change the metadata in the Downloads folder thats okay, but if you change the metadata of the other folder that is not ok ?

So that begs a few questions:

- For files in the Downloads area is it important so that there is a then an album folder or does his only matter if the files themselves dont have metadata ?

- If they dont have metadata does naim lookup the data like it would for a cd it ripped itself or not ?

- Is the data merged from the two locations merged or kept together . i.e if I have a Beatles album in the Downloads section and a Beatles album in the ripped bit will they both be listed under artist Beatles or not in a upnp player.

- Why can I edit the metadata for files under Downloads but not the other files since aren't they all part of the Music Store, or can I edit them really Naim would just rather I didnt in case I break something perhaps if i moved files by mistake.

- Even if you do break something cant you just rebuild the Music Store ?

Peter Lambert posted:

If you want to change the metadata in the Downloads folder thats okay, but if you change the metadata of the other folder that is not ok ?

You cannot (yet) change the metadata on files ripped by the Core.

So that begs a few questions:

- For files in the Downloads area is it important so that there is a then an album folder or does his only matter if the files themselves dont have metadata ?

There should always be an album folder. Without one, you'll probably just get a list of tracks...

- If they dont have metadata does naim lookup the data like it would for a cd it ripped itself or not ?

While I haven't tried copying albums without metadata, I have copied many UnitiServe rips with their original metadata. The Core does a lookup and adds a new file (meta.naim) in the album folder. After that, the album appears indistinguishable from a rip made on the Core.

- Is the data merged from the two locations merged or kept together . i.e if I have a Beatles album in the Downloads section and a Beatles album in the ripped bit will they both be listed under artist Beatles or not in a upnp player.

Data from the two sections are kept together under 'artist'. If you have the same album in the two locations, the album will show up twice on the app. It won't tell you which is which though.  The UnitiServe app does indicate where an album is located and it would be useful to have this information on the Core app.

- Why can I edit the metadata for files under Downloads but not the other files since aren't they all part of the Music Store, or can I edit them really Naim would just rather I didnt in case I break something perhaps if i moved files by mistake.

As with the UnitiServe, the Music store to which the server rips has always been walled off, to avoid corrupting the data. As mentioned above, editing functionality is planned  for...

- Even if you do break something cant you just rebuild the Music Store ?

Probably, if your backup was done properly.

- If they dont have metadata does naim lookup the data like it would for a cd it ripped itself or not ?

While I haven't tried copying albums without metadata, I have copied many UnitiServe rips with their original metadata. The Core does a lookup and adds a new file (meta.naim) in the album folder. After that, the album appears indistinguishable from a rip made on the Core.

So they are stored in a different location but not visible to end user app, interested to see whats actually in  the meta.naim file, do cds ripped by uniti also have this file ?

If you remote mount the Music Store drive can you then see the files inside the Music Store or not ?

Peter Lambert posted:

Thanks found the link https://www.naimaudio.com/uniti-support but it definently glosses over the metadata stuff.

From what I have read you create a disk as a Music Store and then this has two sections, one section for when your directly rip Cd's on the Uniti, and one area called Downloads where any already ripped files are added. Then from what I understand Uniti creates a view of these files that is then served over uPNP. If you want to change the metadata in the Downloads folder thats okay, but if you change the metadata of the other folder that is not ok ?

So that begs a few questions:

- For files in the Downloads area is it important so that there is a then an album folder or does his only matter if the files themselves dont have metadata ?

- If they dont have metadata does naim lookup the data like it would for a cd it ripped itself or not ?

- Is the data merged from the two locations merged or kept together . i.e if I have a Beatles album in the Downloads section and a Beatles album in the ripped bit will they both be listed under artist Beatles or not in a upnp player.

- Why can I edit the metadata for files under Downloads but not the other files since aren't they all part of the Music Store, or can I edit them really Naim would just rather I didnt in case I break something perhaps if i moved files by mistake.

- Even if you do break something cant you just rebuild the Music Store ?

I do not have answers to your questions but, as I argued in https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/question-about-backup-on-the-core?reply=69426746500905984#69426746500905984, if I had a Core (or, in fact, any other music server) I would make sure that I can update its internal music files and databases by connecting an external drive or by pointing the Core to NAS resources. This way, I would not have to care about the way the Core manages its internal drive and I could do all data management tasks (backups, metadata editing, files and folders namegiving, etc.) externally and in a device independent way. These tasks are better done using device-independent tools and formats, in my view.  

Peter Lambert posted:

If you remote mount the Music Store drive can you then see the files inside the Music Store or not ?

Interesting question. My Windows 7 laptop is always reluctant to look at stuff on the network and I found that typing the IP address into Windows explorer, as the Core support info tells you, just takes me to a black empty screen in my browser. I can't browse the Music and Doenloads folders as Naim describes as being possible.

However it was possible to map the downloads folder in the Core as a drive once I had realised that Uniti Core 12345 has the network name UnitiCore12345 ie no spaces.

Browsing this folder is really slow, compared with the Unitiserve for example. For example to go down one level takes about a minute in the Core and fractions of a second in the Unitiserve. I edited the name of artwork for one album and told the Core to rebuild its database, which took a while,  but it didn't pick up the artwork which it should have now recognised, so I suspect I am going to need to delete the relevant album in downloads and import it again. This is not a consumer-friendly product.

i have no idea whether you can browse the MQ folder. I don't need to do that, so I am not mapping that drive, but you can do that on a Unitiserve so I suspect that you can on a Core too.

best

David

A uniticore is a fictional animal, like a horse but with a pointy thing sticking out of its forehead.

Solid Air posted:

A uniticore is a fictional animal, like a horse but with a pointy thing sticking out of its forehead.

A UnitiCorn?

G

David Hendon posted:

Peter Lambert posted:

If you remote mount the Music Store drive can you then see the files inside the Music Store or not ?

...

Browsing this folder is really slow, compared with the Unitiserve for example. For example to go down one level takes about a minute in the Core and fractions of a second in the Unitiserve. I edited the name of artwork for one album and told the Core to rebuild its database, which took a while,  but it didn't pick up the artwork which it should have now recognised, so I suspect I am going to need to delete the relevant album in downloads and import it again. This is not a consumer-friendly product.

...

I do not have a Core and I am still waiting for detailed technical documentation on the device. But my understanding is that the Core has been specifically designed to be user-friendly. In fact, my major criticism is that Naim has traded flexibility and completeness for simplicity. Thus, I suspect that the problems that you are experiencing are due to plain software errors. I frankly do not understand what Naim is trying to achieve with the Core. The device appear to be based on a Linux distribution and for most Linux distributions, reliable UPnP servers and players are available and well supported. Perhaps they have chosen to develop their own software solutions. It is also conceivable that many problems arise from the wish to provide backwards compatibility with the US servers. This is laudable but perhaps not completely trivial. No matter what the reasons for the current state of things are, a system update is due in less than two weeks. This will hopefully bring improvements on the current issues and perhaps also shed some light on where the journey is going to go.   

GraemeH posted:

Solid Air posted:

A uniticore is a fictional animal, like a horse but with a pointy thing sticking out of its forehead.

A UnitiCorn?

G

Unicornitis is a rare disease that very seldomly affects Linux-based music servers. Usually, it can be healed with a high dosis of open-source software.