What is the difference between unitserve and uniticore ?

nbpf posted:

Bart posted:

Peter Lambert posted:

Just came across this page about getting unitiserve data into the wav files, has anybody tried it - http://www.jthink.net/songkong/en/melco.jsp - would the data then work in uniticore ?

Rather misleading is their statement, "For a long time Naim users have had to make a decision between using Uncompressed Wav without metadata or converting to Compressed Flac. This allowed metadata to be stored but at the expense of sound quality since the Flac files are compressed."

Do these people not know how flac works, or are they intending to mislead?

To me it sounds as if they were trying to mislead but this does not mean that they know how flac works! Ignorance and malice are by no means mutually exclusive :-) Best, nbpf

I didn't see it as misleading, I know they are both lossless but  many people think wav sound better than flac because no  decompression has to be done on playback, in fact I have read a number of articles recommending to store as wav rather than flac for various reasons but I'm not sure my ears are good enough to tell the difference.

David Hendon posted:

If you look on the support page for the Core on Naim's website, it says

"Before ripping CDs or importing music you will need to configure your music store. This means selecting the drive you want to use as a Music Store (either internal, USB or NAS) and then formatting the drive which will completely erase the drive and format it for use as a Naim Music Store."

This is a bit different to the Unitiserve where only the internal disc can be used to store rips, although the Unitiserve SSD moved quite a long way in the Core's direction.

 

The Unitiserve can store CD rips on an external disc, on which you create a Music Store. On the SSD version, this is obviously the only option, but it is also possible on the HDD version. Presumably, this is the same as the Core. 

I've been using Unitiserve since around 2010 and I now also have a Core.

There are many things that the Unitiserve can do that the Core can't and never will be able to (as per Naim communications).  I have *briefly* listed them below;

1.  Core doesn't have a webpage based inbuilt application, you must use the Apple or soon to be released Android app.

2.  Core doesn't have a monitor output / keyboard input  or touchscreen facility. 

3.  Core will never have a PC based desktop management / metadata application.  This is the reason why I will continue to rip using my Unitiserve probably forever as I do lots of manual metadata editing and this won't be something I'd want to do via an Ipad or similar.

4.   Presently if you point your Core to your Unitiserve created music share it doesn't read / recognise user edits done to any metadata thus in my case my music library is pretty messed up and plain incorrect for hundreds of my CD's.  My library displays perfectly via the old Unitiserve app.

5.   Core doesn't have internet radio, alarm, sleep timer or many of the facilities of my Sonos system which is pretty disappointing for a newly released product.

6.  Core is made of a very strange metal which is very easily marked and turns white, although it can be cleaned if you use a specific type of cloth.

7.  The present app in general overall is pretty poor especially coming from a company such as Naim.  I'd expect such quality from a Chinese / OEM type piece of electronic equipment.

8.  Core annoys me right now and I wonder if the software version desired will always be a few months away.................until eventually we get Core 2 

And as far as SQ is concerned Christine, is there anything in your view, or in your hear I should post, that UC does better, or not, than US?  

Chag -

Christine posted:

I've been using Unitiserve since around 2010 and I now also have a Core.

There are many things that the Unitiserve can do that the Core can't and never will be able to (as per Naim communications).  I have *briefly* listed them below;

1.  Core doesn't have a webpage based inbuilt application, you must use the Apple or soon to be released Android app.

2.  Core doesn't have a monitor output / keyboard input  or touchscreen facility. 

3.  Core will never have a PC based desktop management / metadata application.  This is the reason why I will continue to rip using my Unitiserve probably forever as I do lots of manual metadata editing and this won't be something I'd want to do via an Ipad or similar.

4.   Presently if you point your Core to your Unitiserve created music share it doesn't read / recognise user edits done to any metadata thus in my case my music library is pretty messed up and plain incorrect for hundreds of my CD's.  My library displays perfectly via the old Unitiserve app.

5.   Core doesn't have internet radio, alarm, sleep timer or many of the facilities of my Sonos system which is pretty disappointing for a newly released product.

6.  Core is made of a very strange metal which is very easily marked and turns white, although it can be cleaned if you use a specific type of cloth.

7.  The present app in general overall is pretty poor especially coming from a company such as Naim.  I'd expect such quality from a Chinese / OEM type piece of electronic equipment.

8.  Core annoys me right now and I wonder if the software version desired will always be a few months away.................until eventually we get Core 2 

as chag i have quite  the same question: in server mode( in ehernet mode) is core better in sound quality for you vs unitserve. Recently two persons owning an nds , have compared them and found the core better. But some could not see differences in sound quality.

I have this same question since two months because i don't know yet if i will sell my unitserve that i bought 10 months ago.

You say also , if i understand, that there is no desktop client on a pc for the core? so you can't change the titles or add photos to albums present in the core?  if it is that, i am very disappointed.

thanks

In my opinion Core is really great in SPDIF mode.

Unfortunately, I could try it in UPnP mode only with non Naim systems - but the sound quality is not as good as SPDIF.

However, just leaving Core to only serve the Music files (not utilizing its UPnP server) gave me amazing result with all of the 3 top grade music servers - Roon, JRiver and Audirvana (all in Mac). The sound quality is much much better than using those servers where they access the music files from the same machine (in my case Mac Mini). Probably the Linear Power Supply is doing some magic.

Regards,

Sourav

Christine posted:

I've been using Unitiserve since around 2010 and I now also have a Core.

There are many things that the Unitiserve can do that the Core can't and never will be able to (as per Naim communications).  I have *briefly* listed them below;

1.  Core doesn't have a webpage based inbuilt application, you must use the Apple or soon to be released Android app.

2.  Core doesn't have a monitor output / keyboard input  or touchscreen facility. 

3.  Core will never have a PC based desktop management / metadata application.  This is the reason why I will continue to rip using my Unitiserve probably forever as I do lots of manual metadata editing and this won't be something I'd want to do via an Ipad or similar.

4.   Presently if you point your Core to your Unitiserve created music share it doesn't read / recognise user edits done to any metadata thus in my case my music library is pretty messed up and plain incorrect for hundreds of my CD's.  My library displays perfectly via the old Unitiserve app.

5.   Core doesn't have internet radio, alarm, sleep timer or many of the facilities of my Sonos system which is pretty disappointing for a newly released product.

6.  Core is made of a very strange metal which is very easily marked and turns white, although it can be cleaned if you use a specific type of cloth.

7.  The present app in general overall is pretty poor especially coming from a company such as Naim.  I'd expect such quality from a Chinese / OEM type piece of electronic equipment.

8.  Core annoys me right now and I wonder if the software version desired will always be a few months away.................until eventually we get Core 2 

 My comments on your points:

1, 2. The lack of a web interface is unacceptable. I would not mind the absence of in/out for keyboard/monitor if the Core had a comprehensive web interface and/or support for ssh remote login.

3. I am not sure I understand this issue: isn't it possible to access the core rips from a laptop or desktop computer and edit the rips' metadata with whatever tool available on that laptop or desktop? If so, it really sucks! I do not think that anything else makes actually sense and I agree that editing metadata via mobile devices is not a first-class solution.

4. These seem to be plain software errors. They will hopefully be addressed in upcoming software upgrades.

5. The lack of support for internet radio and internet streaming services is unacceptable, in my view. Naim is trying to push customers who want to enjoy Tidal, Qobuz, etc. to buy their streamers which, in turn, do not offer very comprehensive and reliable support for such services. I think this is a miserable policy. Naim should recognize that the most natural, flexible, cost effective and user-friendly scheme for implementing support for internet streaming services is via a server, not through their streamers' firmware.

7. I cannot judge the quality of the Naim app, I cannot use it to control my UPnP renderer. By contrast, Linn Kinsky, Lumin, Audiodata, BubbleUPnP, etc. work flawlessly. It is mildly annoying that the Naim app does not support open source renderers. To me, this is certainly not an incentive to buy Naim servers or streamers.

8. It seems that the Core does not fit your needs. Why have you bought it in the first place? Why don't you simply return it or sell it? 

Christine posted:

I've been using Unitiserve since around 2010 and I now also have a Core.

There are many things that the Unitiserve can do that the Core can't and never will be able to (as per Naim communications).  I have *briefly* listed them below;

1.  Core doesn't have a webpage based inbuilt application, you must use the Apple or soon to be released Android app.

2.  Core doesn't have a monitor output / keyboard input  or touchscreen facility. 

3.  Core will never have a PC based desktop management / metadata application.  This is the reason why I will continue to rip using my Unitiserve probably forever as I do lots of manual metadata editing and this won't be something I'd want to do via an Ipad or similar.

4.   Presently if you point your Core to your Unitiserve created music share it doesn't read / recognise user edits done to any metadata thus in my case my music library is pretty messed up and plain incorrect for hundreds of my CD's.  My library displays perfectly via the old Unitiserve app.

5.   Core doesn't have internet radio, alarm, sleep timer or many of the facilities of my Sonos system which is pretty disappointing for a newly released product.

6.  Core is made of a very strange metal which is very easily marked and turns white, although it can be cleaned if you use a specific type of cloth.

7.  The present app in general overall is pretty poor especially coming from a company such as Naim.  I'd expect such quality from a Chinese / OEM type piece of electronic equipment.

8.  Core annoys me right now and I wonder if the software version desired will always be a few months away.................until eventually we get Core 2 

What raises the question - if you have a Serve, why buy a Core?

HH

The OP's original question was because he was contemplating buying one or the other.

best

David

Ah you mean why did Christine buy a Core. I think she did tell us ages ago in another thread. If I recall it was the appeal of the more modern, less precarious nature of the Core and it's internals over the US?

best

David

David Hendon posted:

HH

The OP's original question was because he was contemplating buying one or the other.

best

David

If you have a UnitiServe, I don't see the need for a Core ... 

Klout10 posted:

David Hendon posted:

HH

The OP's original question was because he was contemplating buying one or the other.

best

David

If you have a UnitiServe, I don't see the need for a Core ... 

Unless you want better sound quality

I purchased a Core because I could wait another six months for the Atom to be released as I needed another player for another room in the house.  Also I'd assumed it would be better in most ways that my seven year old Unitiserve, I was wrong.

You could say that the Core and Unitiserve are two quite different products, surprisingly as that may sound.

Christine posted:

...

You could say that the Core and Unitiserve are two quite different products, surprisingly as that may sound.

It does not sound surprising to me! On the contrary, I would expect the UnitiCore to be very different from the UnitiServe. It comes out seven years later and, during these seven years, quite a lot has happened in music server technologies. When assessing the Core's strenghts and weaknesses, I think that we should compare the Core to products like the Melcos, the Bryston BDP-Pi, the HIFIBerry, etc. Not necessarily to the US. Best, nbpf  

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

...

You could say that the Core and Unitiserve are two quite different products, surprisingly as that may sound.

It does not sound surprising to me! On the contrary, I would expect the UnitiCore to be very different from the UnitiServe. It comes out seven years later and, during these seven years, quite a lot has happened in music server technologies. When assessing the Core's strenghts and weaknesses, I think that we should compare the Core to products like the Melcos, the Bryston BDP-Pi, the HIFIBerry, etc. Not necessarily to the US. Best, nbpf 

I don't think these offer cd ripping, I would have thought that the closest comparison would possibly be either the Innous Zen or Zenith.

Morton posted:

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

...

You could say that the Core and Unitiserve are two quite different products, surprisingly as that may sound.

It does not sound surprising to me! On the contrary, I would expect the UnitiCore to be very different from the UnitiServe. It comes out seven years later and, during these seven years, quite a lot has happened in music server technologies. When assessing the Core's strenghts and weaknesses, I think that we should compare the Core to products like the Melcos, the Bryston BDP-Pi, the HIFIBerry, etc. Not necessarily to the US. Best, nbpf 

I don't think these offer cd ripping, I would have thought that the closest comparison would possibly be either the Innous Zen or Zenith.

Right, the Innous are probably better terms of comparison if ripping capabilities matter. I was under the impression that users that already have a US and buy a Core do not do so because they want to re-rip their collections. In this cases, a comparison with modern servers would be perhaps more interesting than a comparison with the old US. 

But the main functionality of the Core is and always will be CD ripping is it not?

My point is that the Core is a lesser product than the one it replaces which is the Unitiserve and usually replacement products are more advanced. 

The Atom or other soon-to-be-released Naim products are media servers.

The Atom isn't a server. It's a streamer and amplifier. The Core is a ripper and server. 

The Core is also a streamer...

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

I think strictly it is renderer not a streamer.  It can't make use of upnp files served by another server.

best

David

the core, as the unitserve, are primarily rippers and servers. As players, with a dac in spdif, they are not as good as servers. In the naim statement demo, they are used as servers ( like nas) with nds( in unpp mode).

I have done the comparison myself, but you can read the articles of art dudley, martin colloms and ken kessler( stereophile/hifi critic/ hifi news).

Martin Colloms said to me in an mail that they will make a comparison between unitserve and core in a next hifi critic magazine.

Martin colloms have tried several servers with his nds and naim amps: innuos zenith, melco and cad. But for prat he preferred the unitserve.

I wanted to share with you this informations.

David Hendon posted:

If you look on the support page for the Core on Naim's website, it says

"Before ripping CDs or importing music you will need to configure your music store. This means selecting the drive you want to use as a Music Store (either internal, USB or NAS) and then formatting the drive which will completely erase the drive and format it for use as a Naim Music Store."

This is a bit different to the Unitiserve where only the internal disc can be used to store rips, although the Unitiserve SSD moved quite a long way in the Core's direction.

best

David

Regarding the final paragraph.

I ripped 800 CDs with the US I demoed. I created a music share on my Lenovo IX2 NAS using its management software and then once the US found it I upgraded it to Music Store status. Being an external store the US was not in a position to format it or indeed to zap it. I discovered that unless an external share has music store status you cannot edit the metadata. Therefore, in theory one could remove music store status and later add it again without losing the contents of the share. Contrary to some posts in the last day or so, the US did create metadata for Ripped CDs in wav format. I did of course upgrade the US firmware before starting.

The Core may be the same, but I did learn that the US software works asynchronously. Therefore some patience is needed. Getting the right album artwork did require getting the correct album name, which with CD sets was far from consistent.  I got into the routine of using the US PC software to monitor the ripping process and getting album names and artists to my liking. I then patiently waited for the US App on my iPad to update the recently ripped list. One of the most infuriating things was when the artwork was not found, but when one started metadata editing on the iPad it appeared and disappeared unless I added the artwork.

I have decided to return the loan Core because it mangles a significant amount of metadata (why could it not just use the existing metadata in the file system rather than importing new stuff) and the SQ is not as good as my CDX2 + XPS DR + nDAC. I did not like the US because at worse CD ripping made the whole box vibrate significantly and the SQ was not as good as the CDX2. I also dislike the idea of buying expensive Ethernet cables. The fewer expensive ICs and Powerlines the better - it's so annoying that they are really good and therefore necessary extras. Why ditch the wireless interface and mandate yet another cable with doubts about SQ if it's not good enough?

JRiver Music Centre looks fine and once you tell it how to extract metadata from the file system it's 100% including loading artwork from the US share. Roon is for the ultimate Wiki music experience with an App that suggests other music similar to your playing tastes to consider. My PC with a £50 sound card and an optical into the nDAC is almost as good as the Core. But I want to read the opera librettos so I have to find the CDs.

Keler Pierre posted:

the core, as the unitserve, are primarily rippers and servers. As players, with a dac in spdif, they are not as good as servers. In the naim statement demo, they are used as servers ( like nas) with nds( in unpp mode).

I have done the comparison myself, but you can read the articles of art dudley, martin colloms and ken kessler( stereophile/hifi critic/ hifi news).

Martin Colloms said to me in an mail that they will make a comparison between unitserve and core in a next hifi critic magazine.

Martin colloms have tried several servers with his nds and naim amps: innuos zenith, melco and cad. But for prat he preferred the unitserve.

I wanted to share with you this informations. 

Great information indeed Pierre. Thanks. Looking forward to reading Martin on UC against US. As exciting as PSG against FCB tonight.

Chag -

As a sufferer from ulcerative colitis I find all these references to UC rather enlightening. Whoever said that people don't like to mention 'bottom' diseases? The Naim Forum shows the way....

We're not just farting about. We like to get to the bottom of everything.