What is the difference between unitserve and uniticore ?

winkyincanada posted:

Keler Pierre posted:

David Hendon posted:

There is no metadata editing on the Core at the moment and although you can edit metadata of files in the downloads folder, you can't edit files in the MQ folder in Music Stores, that is where rips are saved. Naim doesn't allow this because they say it risks breaking the file indexing in the store.

Naim have said that they will provide meta data editing in the Core's music stores as a firmware upgrade at the end of March.

best

David

thanks. Sometimes i regret my plug and play cdx2/xps2. waw, flac, server, streamer, metadata, renderer, downloads....what a zoo!

The nightmare, twonky world of the laughably named PnP streaming scares the hell out of me.

if hirez did not exist, i would buy a cd555 , not an nds i have. The perfect world for me would be a cd555 wich can play sacd and a lot more sacd than today.  But it was just a dream.

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, of course given time we will BUT I'm not sure how you all feel about editing dozens, hundreds or in my case thousands of CD's via at best an iPad where presently with my Unitiserve I use a simple windows based programs that allows me to cut 'n' paste and view a large portion of my library on screen etc etc

Christine posted:

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, of course given time we will BUT I'm not sure how you all feel about editing dozens, hundreds or in my case thousands of CD's via at best an iPad where presently with my Unitiserve I use a simple windows based programs that allows me to cut 'n' paste and view a large portion of my library on screen etc etc

I have stated this question a number of times but what is the problem with editing your files' metadata with whatever tool of your choice and under your preferred OS and then importing them into the Core?

Your master files shouldn't anyway be stored in any device-specific formats and the idea of waiting for Core-specific software for editing metadata makes no sense at all to me: just use the tools that you feel comfortable with now!   

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, of course given time we will BUT I'm not sure how you all feel about editing dozens, hundreds or in my case thousands of CD's via at best an iPad where presently with my Unitiserve I use a simple windows based programs that allows me to cut 'n' paste and view a large portion of my library on screen etc etc

I have stated this question a number of times but what is the problem with editing your files' metadata with whatever tool of your choice and under your preferred OS and then importing them into the Core?

Your master files shouldn't anyway be stored in any device-specific formats and the idea of waiting for Core-specific software for editing metadata makes no sense at all to me: just use the tools that you feel comfortable with now!   

With the Unitiserve and Core when you rip a CD using the device (which is the whole point of the device) the only "Legal" way to edit the metadata is via the Naim provided Applications.  You can not edit, insert or delete music files any other way than to use the methods Naim allow. 

If you add a folder which contains a CD into the DOWNLOADS folder you are then not able to re-edit them in the future using Naim applications (you can of course edit these using other methods)

My music library is very well organised thanks to Unitiserve over the past seven years, and I'd like this to continue, unfortunately Core won't allow me to do this.

Just for clarity any other Media device can access the Naim produced music rips folder and play them, for example my Sonos system uses my Naim / Unitiserve created music library with no problems.   

Christine posted:

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, of course given time we will BUT I'm not sure how you all feel about editing dozens, hundreds or in my case thousands of CD's via at best an iPad where presently with my Unitiserve I use a simple windows based programs that allows me to cut 'n' paste and view a large portion of my library on screen etc etc

I have stated this question a number of times but what is the problem with editing your files' metadata with whatever tool of your choice and under your preferred OS and then importing them into the Core?

Your master files shouldn't anyway be stored in any device-specific formats and the idea of waiting for Core-specific software for editing metadata makes no sense at all to me: just use the tools that you feel comfortable with now!   

With the Unitiserve and Core when you rip a CD using the device (which is the whole point of the device) the only "Legal" way to edit the metadata is via the Naim provided Applications.  You can not edit, insert or delete music files any other way than to use the methods Naim allow. 

If you add a folder which contains a CD into the DOWNLOADS folder you are then not able to re-edit them in the future using Naim applications (you can of course edit these using other methods)

My music library is very well organised thanks to Unitiserve over the past seven years, and I'd like this to continue, unfortunately Core won't allow me to do this.

Just for clarity any other Media device can access the Naim produced music rips folder and play them, for example my Sonos system uses my Naim / Unitiserve created music library with no problems.   

I have to admit that I do not get it. What does it mean "legal" in this context? Can't you just export the US or Core rips to an external drive (for instance, in .flac format) edit whatever you want to edit, backup and reimport the files? What's the problem?

David Hendon posted:

Yes it's the same as the Unitiserve. There was a discussion about how to get round this in a thread, maybe this thread, a few weeks back but Naim took the view that this amounted to modifying how the product worked and ruled it outlawed to discuss in the Forum as doing so broke Forum rules.

So I think we just have to wait for the metadata editing to become available.

best

David

Yes, that was a thread I was involved with.

It IS possible to make any CD file / folder work and modify metadata to suit your needs, I've been doing it for years, even being able to add non-Unitiserve CD rips to the Unitiserve database long before the Download folder even existed as an option, but I can't talk about this as Naim will delete the post and possibly ban me.

I wonder if we have any clever programmers on this forum that would write a PC based metadata editor for the Core..................It's only .txt files or similar after all

Lets wait and see what Naim delivers as promised at the end of the month. 

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, of course given time we will BUT I'm not sure how you all feel about editing dozens, hundreds or in my case thousands of CD's via at best an iPad where presently with my Unitiserve I use a simple windows based programs that allows me to cut 'n' paste and view a large portion of my library on screen etc etc

I have stated this question a number of times but what is the problem with editing your files' metadata with whatever tool of your choice and under your preferred OS and then importing them into the Core?

Your master files shouldn't anyway be stored in any device-specific formats and the idea of waiting for Core-specific software for editing metadata makes no sense at all to me: just use the tools that you feel comfortable with now!   

With the Unitiserve and Core when you rip a CD using the device (which is the whole point of the device) the only "Legal" way to edit the metadata is via the Naim provided Applications.  You can not edit, insert or delete music files any other way than to use the methods Naim allow. 

If you add a folder which contains a CD into the DOWNLOADS folder you are then not able to re-edit them in the future using Naim applications (you can of course edit these using other methods)

My music library is very well organised thanks to Unitiserve over the past seven years, and I'd like this to continue, unfortunately Core won't allow me to do this.

Just for clarity any other Media device can access the Naim produced music rips folder and play them, for example my Sonos system uses my Naim / Unitiserve created music library with no problems.   

I have to admit that I do not get it. What does it mean "legal" in this context? Can't you just export the US or Core rips to an external drive (for instance, in .flac format) edit whatever you want to edit, backup and reimport the files? What's the problem?

1. Legal means that Naim won't shout at you if you mess around with their stuff.

2. No you can't do this, it will mess up your Naim Unitiserve / Core / Anything database and your files will explode.

3.  Who in their right mind would use .flac when you can use, and I'll quote Naim here "slightly better sounding .WAV files"

Christine posted:

David Hendon posted:

Yes it's the same as the Unitiserve. There was a discussion about how to get round this in a thread, maybe this thread, a few weeks back but Naim took the view that this amounted to modifying how the product worked and ruled it outlawed to discuss in the Forum as doing so broke Forum rules.

So I think we just have to wait for the metadata editing to become available.

best

David

Yes, that was a thread I was involved with.

It IS possible to make any CD file / folder work and modify metadata to suit your needs, I've been doing it for years, even being able to add non-Unitiserve CD rips to the Unitiserve database long before the Download folder even existed as an option, but I can't talk about this as Naim will delete the post and possibly ban me.

I wonder if we have any clever programmers on this forum that would write a PC based metadata editor for the Core..................It's only .txt files or similar after all

I didn't see the deleted post, I am moved to wonder if there is a difference between discussing getting round some aspect of the US or Core's design, and modifying the music files that you own and have stored on it, and whather that extends to moving off the device, doing what you will to the metadata, then moving back: personally I can't see how this differs from consideration of metadata had you sourced the file from elsewhere. Perhaps Richard Dane could usefully provide some clarification here as to what aspects of this subject can and can't be discussed, and what the boundary is.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Christine posted:

David Hendon posted:

Yes it's the same as the Unitiserve. There was a discussion about how to get round this in a thread, maybe this thread, a few weeks back but Naim took the view that this amounted to modifying how the product worked and ruled it outlawed to discuss in the Forum as doing so broke Forum rules.

So I think we just have to wait for the metadata editing to become available.

best

David

Yes, that was a thread I was involved with.

It IS possible to make any CD file / folder work and modify metadata to suit your needs, I've been doing it for years, even being able to add non-Unitiserve CD rips to the Unitiserve database long before the Download folder even existed as an option, but I can't talk about this as Naim will delete the post and possibly ban me.

I wonder if we have any clever programmers on this forum that would write a PC based metadata editor for the Core..................It's only .txt files or similar after all

I didn't see the deleted post, I am moved to wonder if there is a difference between discussing getting round some aspect of the US or Core's design, and modifying the music files that you own and have stored on it, and whather that extends to moving off the device, doing what you will to the metadata, then moving back: personally I can't see how this differs from consideration of metadata had you sourced the file from elsewhere. Perhaps Richard Dane could usefully provide some clarification here as to what aspects of this subject can and can't be discussed, and what the boundary is.

The post didn't get deleted, but it was implied if we continued the line of discussion.

Naim don't like it, we can't talk about it here, end of story.

But if members want to create an alternative Bootleggers Naim forum, then there would be no stopping us.........

Before its release I was seeing the Core as a potential challenger to the likes ok Melco, Innuos Zenith, and a possible future replacement for my MacMini/Audirvana when that gets to end of life. But the feeling I am getting from this thread so far is not exactly encouraging. And it does almost seem as if it has been released too soon. However, I will read with interest how this develops.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Before its release I was seeing the Core as a potential challenger to the likes ok Melco, Innuos Zenith, and a possible future replacement for my MacMini/Audirvana when that gets to end of life. But the feeling I am getting from this thread so far is not exactly encouraging. And it does almost seem as if it has been released too soon. However, I will read with interest how this develops.

I think you may be right.

BUT

Naim have the technology, they can rebuild Core and create the world first Bionic ripper...........all in software of course

Christine posted:

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

nbpf posted:

Christine posted:

My concern isn't that we won't be able to edit Metadata, ...

I have stated this question a number of times but what is the problem with editing your files' metadata with whatever tool of your choice and under your preferred OS and then importing them into the Core?

...

With the Unitiserve and Core when you rip a CD using the device (which is the whole point of the device) the only "Legal" way to edit the metadata is via the Naim provided Applications.  You can not edit, insert or delete music files any other way than to use the methods Naim allow. 

...

I have to admit that I do not get it. What does it mean "legal" in this context? Can't you just export the US or Core rips to an external drive (for instance, in .flac format) edit whatever you want to edit, backup and reimport the files? What's the problem?

...

2. No you can't do this, it will mess up your Naim Unitiserve / Core / Anything database and your files will explode.

...

I do not see why it should not be possible. If a device allows one to import files from an external drive, it allows one to import well tagged files from that drive. If importing files does mess up a device, this means that importing is defective on that device.

Anyway, from what I read in this thread it looks as if Naim servers had been purposely designed to artificially create compatibility issues, make import/exports of music files in standard formats particularly complicated and inefficient, prevent interoperability with established file management and tagging tools, incentivate the usage of unsupported or perhaps even "illegal" practices ... All this sounds hardly plausible and quite weird to me but still I am glad I do not need one such servers.   

Innocent Bystander posted:

Before its release I was seeing the Core as a potential challenger to the likes ok Melco, Innuos Zenith, and a possible future replacement for my MacMini/Audirvana when that gets to end of life. But the feeling I am getting from this thread so far is not exactly encouraging. And it does almost seem as if it has been released too soon. However, I will read with interest how this develops.

I think that for replacing a MacMini/Audirvana system a low-power device without CD drive would perhaps be a better choice. A Raspberry Pi with the new HIFIBERRY DIGI+ Pro with BNC connector and a low-noise PSU seems an interesting option. At least it does not prevent you from editing your metadata with the tools of your choice and from storing your music files the way you like it.    

nbpf posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Before its release I was seeing the Core as a potential challenger to the likes ok Melco, Innuos Zenith, and a possible future replacement for my MacMini/Audirvana when that gets to end of life. But the feeling I am getting from this thread so far is not exactly encouraging. And it does almost seem as if it has been released too soon. However, I will read with interest how this develops.

I think that for replacing a MacMini/Audirvana system a low-power device without CD drive would perhaps be a better choice. A Raspberry Pi with the new HIFIBERRY DIGI+ Pro with BNC connector and a low-noise PSU seems an interesting option. At least it does not prevent you from editing your metadata with the tools of your choice and from storing your music files the way you like it.    

I'm certainly not looking at replacing MM/A at present as its sound quality is excellent, and it works extremely well (just wish Audiv would improve the library to cope better with bad/missing metadata). In the long term any replacement would have to achieve as good SQ, and be combined store, and easy to use (I'm not getting any younger, and my better half needs to be able to play). RAspberry might be a solution, and is cheap enough to play -I'm watching the current thread on it with interest, otherwise I think Melco would be good enough from a brief try. But hopefully a few years yet, so maybe the Core might prove itself, and meanwhile when I retire and have time to play the Raspberry may indeed make an interesting project...

Christine posted:

3.  Who in their right mind would use .flac when you can use, and I'll quote Naim here "slightly better sounding .WAV files"

I am using flac. i am not prepared to use what is effectively a proprietory storage format, due to the limitations of WAV (OK, lets not have a discussion about BWAV etc).

FLAC is portable with its metadata. WAV isnt.

jon honeyball posted:

Christine posted:

3.  Who in their right mind would use .flac when you can use, and I'll quote Naim here "slightly better sounding .WAV files"

I am using flac. i am not prepared to use what is effectively a proprietory storage format, due to the limitations of WAV (OK, lets not have a discussion about BWAV etc).

FLAC is portable with its metadata. WAV isnt.

Can the Core transcode FLAC to WAV on the fly like the Unitiserve? That pretty much covers it as far as I'm concerned.

Does the core sound better playing wav, or is it indistinguishable from flac? And dies that depend more on the DAC than the store, or renderer if Core is used for latter as well?

ChrisSU posted:

 

 

Can the Core transcode FLAC to WAV on the fly like the Unitiserve? That pretty much covers it as far as I'm concerned.

No not at the moment. I think I read in one of the post-announcement threads that Naim were going to include this in a future firmware update, but I don't think they have given an estimate of date for the release.

best

David

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

Its primary function is being a server and ripper - and Naim would be the first to tell you this. Perhaps the Core was mis-sold to you? It seems to me you would have been better off with a conventional NAS - and you would have saved a packet too.

manicm posted:

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

Its primary function is being a server and ripper - and Naim would be the first to tell you this. ...

I do not have any reason to believe that Naim considers the Core's SPDIF replay functionalities to be less important than its ripping functionalities and its UPnP server functionalities. Why do you think Naim would do so?

nbpf posted:

manicm posted:

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

Its primary function is being a server and ripper - and Naim would be the first to tell you this. ...

I do not have any reason to believe that Naim considers the Core's SPDIF replay functionalities to be less important than its ripping functionalities and its UPnP server functionalities. Why do you think Naim would do so?

Because they simply do - wasn't it Phil Harris or Richard Dane who stated it here? They've provided the spdif connection for convenience, not ultimate playback quality.

From what I glean Christine should have ordered neither the Atom nor the Core, but the Star instead - it rips, plays and streams and was designed for all three purposes, for the same price as the Core + Atom.

manicm posted:

nbpf posted:

manicm posted:

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

Its primary function is being a server and ripper - and Naim would be the first to tell you this. ...

I do not have any reason to believe that Naim considers the Core's SPDIF replay functionalities to be less important than its ripping functionalities and its UPnP server functionalities. Why do you think Naim would do so?

Because they simply do - wasn't it Phil Harris or Richard Dane who stated it here? They've provided the spdif connection for convenience, not ultimate playback quality.

From what I glean Christine should have ordered neither the Atom nor the Core, but the Star instead - it rips, plays and streams and was designed for all three purposes, for the same price as the Core + Atom.

I haven't seen any post from Phil or Richard saying that, though I don't pretend to know that I've seen all thier posts on the subject. However I certainly didn't get that impression from the Phils's poste that I have seen.

manicm posted:

Christine posted:

The Core is also a streamer...

Its primary function is being a server and ripper - and Naim would be the first to tell you this. Perhaps the Core was mis-sold to you? It seems to me you would have been better off with a conventional NAS - and you would have saved a packet too.

I purchased on the basis that It would replace my Unitiserve and that I would use my old Unitiserve as a player for another room I'd just set up.  Atom had just been announced as delayed for six or so months otherwise I would have got an Atom.

Right now the Core is sitting there doing nothing, I have to use my Sonos connect for two reasons;

1. Core doesn't have Radio, I'd foolishly assumed it would because Unitiserve has and I didn't think Core would be a backwards step.

2.  Core / Core app doesn't display / browse my Unitiserve MQ folder correctly due to software bugs so It's difficult to find and play music at the moment.

Christine, I feel for you very much. I only loaned a Core, which I returned today. It might think about it again in a year, which should be long enough for Naim to provide a fit for purpose product. Like you the metadata was the My big issue.

I read the Naim blurb and it made it clear that the Core could be used the way you wish to use it through a DAC. Clearly with an App and a DAC one has all the functionality of a Streamer. Without the DAC it is a ripper and server. Heaven knows we all want to minimise the number of boxes, cables, interconnects and racks we buy. I have an unused really good DAC in my CDX2. I use my XPSDR for the nDAC. I sincerely hope with just the internal PS the CDX2 can send a good SPDIF signal to the nDAC. When they added this the interface was said to be optimised for the nDAC. I would hope the Core has been done to the same standard, and not as an after thought.

I think it does not deliver at present what you expected and you are entitled to a refund.

Phil