Chord Dave vs. DAC-V1

Richieroo posted:

Hi Thijazi any news on the Dave directly into Nap 300..... I am really interested in quality of the preamp side of the Dave ... especially against your amazing 552.....

analogmusic posted:

 

Did all of you who want this test done, get together, buy the required cable and send it to Tareq  ?

I thought the suggestion of the 300 was from Tereq himself, and not needing an additional cable?

maybe the lender of the Dave could supply a suitable cable(?).

 

Not likely that such a cable is in stock.

cat345 posted:

If Dave is that good connected to a power amp, why does Chord offer 2 preamplifiers that are far more expensive than Dave? Only for analogue sources?

Yes, and also these preamps were designed before Dave was invented.

analogmusic posted:

cat345 posted:

If Dave is that good connected to a power amp, why does Chord offer 2 preamplifiers that are far more expensive than Dave? Only for analogue sources?

Yes, and also these preamps were designed before Dave was invented.

If preamplifiers have become obsolete with today's digital sources, why is manufacturers still making them? Shouldn't all modern dacs have volume controls and a couple of analogue inputs for a few of us prehistoric audiophiles?

cat345 posted:

analogmusic posted:

cat345 posted:

If Dave is that good connected to a power amp, why does Chord offer 2 preamplifiers that are far more expensive than Dave? Only for analogue sources?

Yes, and also these preamps were designed before Dave was invented.

If preamplifiers have become obsolete with today's digital sources, why is manufacturers still making them? Shouldn't all modern dacs have volume controls and a couple of analogue inputs for a few of us prehistoric audiophiles?

You might find Chord abandons the preamps when it releases Davina, its ADC - but in saying that, I have no idea whether or not it is likely, nor what the perceived benefits might be (unless using a DSP either for room correction or as an active crossover to three Daves to drive three power amps for best tri-amping...!)

Well, I will make this simpler for all, for some reason I thought the NAP had RCA connectors but I was wrong, in the end I borrowed a pair of cables and out pure curiosity bypassed the NAC552 and had the DAVE connected straight into the NAP300... I thought that I will find small differences in sound, but I was totally wrong, there is a substantial difference in sound, mainly in the energy of music, there was a flatter more timid sound, it did not sound as real and had appeared far more closed, less body than I am used to. At first I thought maybe I changed the phase on the Dave configuration, so checked that but things were set right... I tried it again one day later and the same impression, some of the very familiar tracks I tried appeared far less engaging to me...

Part of me to be honest did not want to be impressed by the sound of the DAVE going direct to the NAP300, I guess it is my "cheap" way of resisting having to discover that the Dave was as good sounding as the much more hefty in price 552, but it was not that, there is clear advantage in the 552... Funny enough, I had the same feeling when I borrowed a Devialet Expert system and tried it connected to my speakers, the results were not too impressive for me..

Now back connected to 552 and loving every minute of it...

I had similar impressions when I tried a Hugo in place of an ARC LS-15 pre into Bryston 7B-ST monoblocks. The music lost  body. Not quite the same perhaps as the ARC is a tubed pre.

Thank you for doing the comparison - it is indeed interesting. When I compared Hugo with and without my TAg McLaren PA10 preamp there was not a lot of difference, but I felt it was mildly better without the preamp, so I abandoned it. (When I got Dave Isimply substituted for Hugo, without trying the preamp again.) Power amp originally was Musical Fidelity P270, then Bryston 4Bsst2.  

I wonder to what extent the difference is whatever the Naim preamp does in generating the 'Naim sound', or to what degree it is the power amp needing the pre. One day I will get around to comparing for myself, but with no Naim dealers nearby it has never presented itself as an opportunity, and may have to wait some time.

The preamp is the heart of a hi-fi system and matches the impedance requirements of source and amplifier so that full dynamics are retained.

Thanks Tareq for laying this one to rest. 

I wasn't doubtful at all the 20,000 GBP Naim 552 preamp would show how good it is, (and also glad you didn't have to waste money in buying the cable needed to find this out)

Thanks Thijazi for your test .... I heard the Dave at the Bristol hi fi show driving nap300 direct .... I was not blown away..... the Naim preamp synergy as a system together with a Naim power amp .... is obviously key.  

Strange request then Richeroo, when you already knew the answer?

I constantly test things, that is why I love this hobby so much, always room for something new....  I will try next to convince my supplier to loan me a pair of DIN-2-RCA SuperLumina cables and see if that makes any difference compared to the Chord VEE3 Crimsons I have today.

Have to say though, the Chord Dave with the NAC522-----> SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! well beyond my expectations.

^

I take it that sweet above means realistic timbre reproduction without unnatural 'hardness/edge' rather than 'polished' over smoothness?

"Sweet" as in I don't get tired of the music, sounds just right...  For the cost of this thing I hope this feeling stays for a few years to come

I never get tired of music on my Dave..... it just flows, grooves and rocks !

But to get more of that Naim PRAT, you would need to buy a Hi-line or  SuperLumina RCA to DIN 

Naim also make a normal (100 GBP) rca to din cable, that would be the bare minimum.

How would that compare with the Chord VEE3 Crimson cable? anyone tried them out in comparison to the SuperLumina version?

thijazi posted:

"Sweet" as in I don't get tired of the music, sounds just right...  For the cost of this thing I hope this feeling stays for a few years to come

I'm now in my ninth month of Daveness (NDX>Chord Sig TA>Dave>Chord Sarum SA>552) and it's one of those upgrades that keeps you discovering and smiling and saying "MORE!".

thijazi posted:

How would that compare with the Chord VEE3 Crimson cable? anyone tried them out in comparison to the SuperLumina version?

Hi-line and Superlumina in a different league as they use WBT connectors on the RCA side, and better DIN connectors for the preamp side.

What would I use the Hi-Line for? 

analogmusic posted:

Strange request then Richeroo, when you already knew the answer?

The original suggetsion was Dave into 500, not into 300 that Richeroo had heard. I've no idea whether there would be any significant difference.

analogmusic posted:

The preamp is the heart of a hi-fi system and matches the impedance requirements of source and amplifier so that full dynamics are retained.

Thanks Tareq for laying this one to rest. 

I wasn't doubtful at all the 20,000 GBP Naim 552 preamp would show how good it is, (and also glad you didn't have to waste money in buying the cable needed to find this out)

 

I don't think impedance of the preamp output is the factor in question, rather whatever the 552 does to create the 'Naim sound', which of course Dave does not do.

Whilst I didn't expect any different outcome from someone already using the 552 into the 500, it was interesting to have that confirmed.

Ref my last post I suspected that at the show the nap300 was fresh and not run in......

So, a bizarre development, in my eagerness to further test the Dave directly to the NAP300, I borrowed some higher quality XLR cables and listened in to the Chord Dave connected directly to the NAP300 bypassing the NAC552. I listened for a couple of days, and then reconnected everything back to how it was before the test... Now I only get music through my left channel, I tried everything, for some reason the NAC552 or my NAP300 is refusing to playback on the right channel... I tested again with the Dave connected directly to the NAP and everything works!

I wonder if there is a setting or some configuration that I need to do now that I reconnected everything... I tried a separate set of interconnects and even a separate set of DIN-to-XLR cables from Naim (just to test in my SuperLumina DIN-to-XLR was damaged) but same result, I get only left channel... Swapped the speaker cable to see if it is a speaker issue and nope, the speaker works fine.

Any ideas?

Check your din to xlr cables are the right way around. 

I did, they are exactly the way they were originally setup...  The cables are color-coded so it is pretty clear, I am tempted to swap the cables (use the red labled cable for the right channel and the green one for the left channel), not sure if the cables themselves are setup not to work in this configuration or if this would in any way damage my equipment. 

A jealous nac552 Case!