Should NAC-N 272 be left on all the time?

Yes it should be left on. The reason is that naim kit takes a long while to sound at it best after a power down. If you use it frequently then leave it on, but if not then perhaps turn it on a couple of days before a listening session.

I realise this all sounds a bit mad but you can easily test the results both ways for yourself.

I don't doubt your information, but do you know where Naim documents this advice?

While I'm happy to follow the party line and keep my network player powered on, it will be based on the assumption that Naim's engineers ran some extensive tests to justify this approach. I have usually found that rapid A/B comparisons help me to determine the differences between equipment, but I lack the ability to remember the finer details of sound quality over a period of days!

This has been chewed to death and usually ends in a moral decision on the part of the owner. One example of many:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...me-components-or-all

G

I'm fairly new to these forums, so I did a search for relevant previous discussions before posting. However, my search for 'NAC-N 272 power' must have been a little too specific...

After a brief scan of some of the older threads, I've still not seen any reference to where I can find Naim's official advice on this topic. I would be grateful for guidance on where this can be found.

Hi Alba1320. Our posts crossed in cyberspace.

I must confess that I had missed your first quote from the NAC-N 272 manual, but it doesn't actually provide any reason for this advice. Your second quote is more vaguely worded than I expected from Naim. I'm surprised that they don't provide a bit more detail. BTW, can you please give an example of the other manuals from which you obtained your second quote.

You either follow the advice or you don't. Naim have been advising owners to leave the equipment switched on for the last forty years. There are hundreds of past posts to read, if you feel like passing the time reading them. 

I recommend to try if you can hear a difference. If you do not you can save 40€ per year by not keeping it turnd on all the time. I do not hear a difference with my uniti (that consumes about 32 Watt). Sometimes I think I do, but on other days it sounds like freshly turned on even if it has been running for days without powering it off. So I think it is more my kind of mood.

My new NAC-N 272 is the first and only Naim product I have ever bought, so I lack any detailed knowledge of their history over the past 40 years!

I've certainly seen references in hi-fi magazines to the perceived need to 'burn in' some hi-fi components immediately after purchase, but this is the first time I've come across the suggestion that some equipment benefits from being continuously powered on. I don't think I have the stamina to wade through hundreds of past posts when none of those I've seen so far quote any Naim sources, so I've just emailed Naim to ask them for more information on this topic.

I believe you can switch it off if you like (the planet will thank you). However, Naim's advice has been to leave their equipment on. Personally I do not hear much difference – only slight improvement on the first hour when switched on (not a 272 though). Someone else with "golden ears" might hear differently. 

haggis999 posted:

My new NAC-N 272 is the first and only Naim product I have ever bought, so I lack any detailed knowledge of their history over the past 40 years!

I've certainly seen references in hi-fi magazines to the perceived need to 'burn in' some hi-fi components immediately after purchase, but this is the first time I've come across the suggestion that some equipment benefits from being continuously powered on. I don't think I have the stamina to wade through hundreds of past posts when none of those I've seen so far quote any Naim sources, so I've just emailed Naim to ask them for more information on this topic.

I'll be keen to hear if it is different to the manuals regarding power off/on.

G

I'll post back here when I get a reply from Naim.

gert posted:

I recommend to try if you can hear a difference. If you do not you can save 40€ per year by not keeping it turnd on all the time. I do not hear a difference with my uniti (that consumes about 32 Watt). Sometimes I think I do, but on other days it sounds like freshly turned on even if it has been running for days without powering it off. So I think it is more my kind of mood.

Sound advice (pun intended) I do understand the reasoning behind it, but I still switch mine off when I am not using it unless I forget. It doesn't take long to get up to temperature. Your mileage may vary.

When I bought an "ex-demo" SuperUniti for my home office, the dealer admitted that it had only been on for a couple of hours in two years and the rest of the time it just sat on a Fraim in the showroom. I turned it on at home and it sounded horrible. I left it on overnight and by the morning it sounded great. Now it is left on all the time unless I go away for more than a week.

best

David

Hi David,

It would be interesting if you can repeat this experience or not. Maybe the device had not been run in enough, so in combination with being cold it did sound not good? Or it was very cold from transporting it to your home? Was ist in winter?

I believe that people can hear differences of a warm and freshly powered on cold device. But if the device is powered on for maybe 15 minutes before listening, I cannot believe that it would sound "horrible". Maybe small nuances, but not the big thing? But who knows...

gert posted:

Hi David,

It would be interesting if you can repeat this experience or not. Maybe the device had not been run in enough, so in combination with being cold it did sound not good? Or it was very cold from transporting it to your home? Was ist in winter?

I believe that people can hear differences of a warm and freshly powered on cold device. But if the device is powered on for maybe 15 minutes before listening, I cannot believe that it would sound "horrible". Maybe small nuances, but not the big thing? But who knows...

It was a typical English summer, wet and not all that hot, maybe 22 deg C. As I said, I don't think it had been run in and from what the dealer said, hadn't been switched on at all for more than a year. I am not talking nuances in the sound here though. It sounded thick and woolly in comparison with the Unitilite that it replaced. But by the next morning it sounded fine and so it has ever since - but I do leave it switched on all the time.

best

David

Another reason to leave it switched on is that most electronics fail during switch on. If you leave it switched on the risk of any premature failure may be reduced. 

But if leave it switched always on there are other risk which can be avoided if you leave it off : black out, micro electrical brownout etc. so this is not a good reason 

on average, an amplifier or preamp begins to reach operating temperature after about one hour of use ..someone says that with some Naim equipment takes a few days which seems a lot of time

Electrical warm-up isn't just about temperature, it's also about residual charges and other electrical effects, particularly in dielectrics; for instance the electrochemical changes in electrolytic capacitors.

I am a little surprised that Naim do not fall foul of EU regulations on this.

https://ec.europa.eu/energy/en...ent-products/standby

Hi Morton,

the Naim Equipment I know has no standby-mode as such. They are either on (fully operational) or (completely) off.

What I'm surprised about is that Naim aren't forced to implement a standby mode in order to sell within the EU. I obviously haven't read all the EU rules on this so no doubt I am wrong, but the link does seem to imply this.
My Classe amp automatically goes into standby if it does not receive a signal for 15 mins. (which can be a bit irritating if I'm honest) and I understood this was to meet EU regs. but as I say, I may well be wrong.

I think these regulations apply when something is "first placed on the market", ie sold within the EU for the first time. The muso, muso Qb and the new Uniti range do all have standby modes.

best

David

Anto68 posted:

on average, an amplifier or preamp begins to reach operating temperature after about one hour of use ..someone says that with some Naim equipment takes a few days which seems a lot of time

The first reply I received from Naim to my email on this topic came from their Customer Relations Manager, Steven Hopkins. He stated that Naim equipment needed 'an hour or so' to get up to operating temperature. When I questioned the need to run my NAC-N 272 continuously if all it needed was such a relatively short warm-up time, I got the following from his colleague Phil Harris.

"All of our kit is designed to be left on permanently and we feel that it performs better when it is left on. Certainly when we are doing demos or events then we look to get as much 'running' time on a system as possible before the event itself so we will normally set up a system and then leave it running with audio playing overnight to ensure that the system is properly warmed through before doing demonstrations.

No harm will occur to your units if you wish to turn them off – it is absolutely your choice – however it is generally perceived that systems can sound 'off' (harsh, brittle etc.) when first turned on and that they settle as they warm up, hence Steve’s suggestion of giving them an hour to warm up before listening if you have had it turned off.

Myself, I leave my system permanently powered and accept that the additional couple of hundred watts of quiescent draw (mine is a fairly large active system) is a reasonable price to pay for my kit being permanently 'up to operating temperature' and generally find that the background warmth from the system keeps the chill off in winter too".   

I'm not getting obsessive on this subject when only 21 watts are at stake, but will probably turn my kit off overnight. I usually have more than 2 hours of background Internet radio to warm things up before any serious listening later in the day.

David Hendon posted:

I think these regulations apply when something is "first placed on the market", ie sold within the EU for the first time. The muso, muso Qb and the new Uniti range do all have standby modes.

best

David

Ok, that makes sense.

"EU ecodesign requirements are mandatory for all manufacturers and suppliers wishing to sell products consuming electric power in standby and off mode in the EU."

The classic series products do not consume electricity in the off mode, so don't come under those rules.