NDX - ALAC files to FLAC

I never noticed a difference between FLAC and ALAC myself on my 172, only with WAV (which was a shade better than the other formats).

How are you storing your rips?  Your signature seems a bit out of date if you have an NDX, and the options available to you could be different.

Hi Dave,

My music is stored on 2x external HDD's that are connected to an iMac and streamed via Asset UPnP.

You're right about my profile, I have updated it

Paul, I did have a play around with a couple of formats a few years ago before deciding to convert my library to one or the other. My order of preference was WAV/AIFF > ALAC > FLAC. I settled on AIFF in the end as I felt it had the same sound quality as WAV but could natively support metadata unlike WAV which seems to need extra tags. I thought ALAC was slightly better than FLAC.

Just to add to the above however, I use a Macbook Air as source so I'm not sure for certain whether the same will be the case via NDX.

Thanks Mayor, I guess ALAC and AIFF should work better with a MacBook and will certainly be read in their native format.

I did a similar test years ago when I first started using Apple machines and preferred the sound of ALAC over FLAC, but I am not sure it is the right thing for an NDX.

Paul - I wouldn't bother with Flac in the Apple environment. Worth trying converting a few tracks to AIFF and comparing them to the ALAC originals through the NDX to check whether you can hear a difference (there is a bit more processing overhead decompressing the ALAC files compared to the uncompressed AIFF which can possible compromise playback).

If you don't hear any differences then leave as is (and save storage space too)

James

Paul Downs posted:

Hi Dave,

My music is stored on 2x external HDD's that are connected to an iMac and streamed via Asset UPnP.

You're right about my profile, I have updated it

Cool, in that case you can get Asset to transcode both .alac and .flac files to .wav on the fly.  That doesn't do anything to the files stored on the HDDs, it just decompresses the files as they're sent, so the NDX sees .wav files along with the metadata from the compressed files.  This should obviate the need to worry about formats (wav should sound marginally better than either .alac or .flac), and means you still get the file size and metadata convenience of the compressed formats.

I don't use Asset myself (I do the same thing with minimserver), but after a quick search it appears that adding something like this added to the appropriate box in the config options should do the trick:

[ForceToWAVE]

.alac

.flac

You may find there's a difference with .aiff compared with .wav, but I doubt it.  If you google 'asset upnp transcode' you should find the info.

Why not try re-encoding a couple of CDs and trying?

And if you do ... no need to reimport them; using something like dbPowerAmp or XLD you can do batch conversion and just leave your computer doing its thing.

Dave***t posted:

Paul Downs posted:

Hi Dave,

My music is stored on 2x external HDD's that are connected to an iMac and streamed via Asset UPnP.

You're right about my profile, I have updated it

Cool, in that case you can get Asset to transcode both .alac and .flac files to .wav on the fly.  That doesn't do anything to the files stored on the HDDs, it just decompresses the files as they're sent, so the NDX sees .wav files along with the metadata from the compressed files.  This should obviate the need to worry about formats (wav should sound marginally better than either .alac or .flac), and means you still get the file size and metadata convenience of the compressed formats.

Great idea !

Dave***t posted:

Paul Downs posted:

Hi Dave,

My music is stored on 2x external HDD's that are connected to an iMac and streamed via Asset UPnP.

You're right about my profile, I have updated it

Cool, in that case you can get Asset to transcode both .alac and .flac files to .wav on the fly.  That doesn't do anything to the files stored on the HDDs, it just decompresses the files as they're sent, so the NDX sees .wav files along with the metadata from the compressed files.  This should obviate the need to worry about formats (wav should sound marginally better than either .alac or .flac), and means you still get the file size and metadata convenience of the compressed formats.

I don't use Asset myself (I do the same thing with minimserver), but after a quick search it appears that adding something like this added to the appropriate box in the config options should do the trick:

[ForceToWAVE]

.alac

.flac

You may find there's a difference with .aiff compared with .wav, but I doubt it.  If you google 'asset upnp transcode' you should find the info.

Thanks Dave, I have reconfigured my Asset UPnP to do just that, let's see how it fairs , thanks for your help.

Paul.

No probs, the procrastination involved in searching helped punctuate the tedium of the work I'm supposed to be doing

Let us know how you get on.

Dave***t posted:

No probs, the procrastination involved in searching helped punctuate the tedium of the work I'm supposed to be doing

Let us know how you get on.

LOL I know the feeling, the project I am currently working on has it's moments!

I'll let you know if I can hear any difference, thanks

Mac user here.  AIFF wins for metadata, sound, and compatibility with Mac and NDX.  Tried converting AIFF to WAV on the fly -- not sure it was any better.

As ever, I recommend benchmarking all formats you are considering using a thumb drive into the front of the NDX.  Though, I suppose it is possible this method's preference could be different from that of the network method, maybe. 

Nick

Why don't you just set your UPnP server to transcode 'on the fly' from ALAC to AIFF? This way your NDX will 'see' an AIFF file, whilst ALAC will reside on the server?

Paul Downs posted:

My question is will I hear a difference if I was to re-encode my music into FLAC as opposed to ALAC (Applelossless)?

I read somewhere that the Naim streamers can't read ALAC files in their native form, so to play them they have to effectively convert them on the fly. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

The reason for asking is primarily because I have around 2 1/2 thousand CD's and the thought of re-importing them into FLAC fills me with dread

Paul.

Paul

I have all my files in FLAC (losses) and then transcode to WAV - i use Asset very easy to change sorry dont know which you use

IME Naim seems to have an SQ edge with WAV files,  forum rumours say Naim lead their design process with WAV,  but I'm not sure that's fact or hearsay.  However when I first started I tried all the formats,  & given the SQ differences are hard to detect, I did detect that a WAV feed had that small SQ betterment,  I could not detect any difference between transcoded to WAV or straight WAV.

That said there's more to my experience than above,  but to include it all would make a simple message overly complicated,  but briefly;  I chose to rip all my CD's & store 24-bit downloads to WAV,  this also avoids a complication with my Synology NAS & its native Media Server UPnP with transcoding & also in doing so I see a small reduction in NAS CPU & RAM %.    I have never found a problem using WAV & have yet to find any difficulty with metadata editing (another one of those rumours that does not appear to be borne out in practice).   Finally I have listened in with a friend on his Linn system comparing WAV & other formats,  he cannot detect any SQ difference & settled on FLAC

i am only looking at FLAC -- custom WAV is way too much of a ballache to make it a viable ongoing storage solution for me

What I am unclear of is why using computing power on the fly to transcode to wav should sound better than flac - maybe it is something very simple like the renderer in Naim servers not having enough computing power to unpack flawlessly on the fly as well as render? If so, that might explain why on other devices there might not be an audible difference betweel wav and flac. 

Mike-B posted:

IME Naim seems to have an SQ edge with WAV files,  forum rumours say Naim lead their design process with WAV,  but I'm not sure that's fact or hearsay.  However when I first started I tried all the formats,  & given the SQ differences are hard to detect, I did detect that a WAV feed had that small SQ betterment,  I could not detect any difference between transcoded to WAV or straight WAV.

That said there's more to my experience than above,  but to include it all would make a simple message overly complicated,  but briefly;  I chose to rip all my CD's & store 24-bit downloads to WAV,  this also avoids a complication with my Synology NAS & its native Media Server UPnP with transcoding & also in doing so I see a small reduction in NAS CPU & RAM %.    I have never found a problem using WAV & have yet to find any difficulty with metadata editing (another one of those rumours that does not appear to be borne out in practice).   Finally I have listened in with a friend on his Linn system comparing WAV & other formats,  he cannot detect any SQ difference & settled on FLAC

I have NDX and Symbology NAS, what's the issue with transcoding?

Innocent Bystander posted:

What I am unclear of is why using computing power on the fly to transcode to wav should sound better than flac - maybe it is something very simple like the renderer in Naim servers not having enough computing power to unpack flawlessly on the fly as well as render? If so, that might explain why on other devices there might not be an audible difference betweel wav and flac. 

The answer from Naim is simple - the added computational load caused by 'unpacking' compressed files like FLAC, increases the noise floor in the streamer. Hence the preference for uncompressed formats like WAV or AIFF. Of course the ND platform and the Uniti platforms can handle any file format thrown at them.

Personally I cannot really hear any difference between a FLAC file transcoded by a UPnP server or by the player. It all sounds good to me

daveyu posted:

I have NDX and Symbology NAS, what's the issue with transcoding?

Synology Media Server does not transcode gapless album track transitions & it also down samples 24-bit to 16-bit.      It plays straight WAV with gapless transitions & 24-bit files perfectly,  it's the transcode engine that has the problem.    The alternative is to install the Synology 3rd party package 'Minimserver',  it's not a simple one button "Install" like Media Server & requires the Java package & a few more fiddly bits to get it going,  but its an excellent UPnP & does transcode gapless FLAC & other formats to WAV perfectly & does not downsample.   I understand Synology are working on this,  but not sure if any changes will be able to work across all the various Synology OS's & legacy products.  

Mike-B posted:

daveyu posted:

I have NDX and Symbology NAS, what's the issue with transcoding?

Synology Media Server does not transcode gapless album track transitions & it also down samples 24-bit to 16-bit.      It plays straight WAV with gapless transitions & 24-bit files perfectly,  it's the transcode engine that has the problem.    The alternative is to install the Synology 3rd party package 'Minimserver',  it's not a simple one button "Install" like Media Server & requires the Java package & a few more fiddly bits to get it going,  but its an excellent UPnP & does transcode gapless FLAC & other formats to WAV perfectly & does not downsample.   I understand Synology are working on this,  but not sure if any changes will be able to work across all the various Synology OS's & legacy products.  

Thanks for that.

I have installed Minimserver on my Synology NAS, how do I use it to stream music to the NDX ?

daveyu posted:

Mike-B posted:

daveyu posted:

I have NDX and Symbology NAS, what's the issue with transcoding?

Synology Media Server does not transcode gapless album track transitions & it also down samples 24-bit to 16-bit.      It plays straight WAV with gapless transitions & 24-bit files perfectly,  it's the transcode engine that has the problem.    The alternative is to install the Synology 3rd party package 'Minimserver',  it's not a simple one button "Install" like Media Server & requires the Java package & a few more fiddly bits to get it going,  but its an excellent UPnP & does transcode gapless FLAC & other formats to WAV perfectly & does not downsample.   I understand Synology are working on this,  but not sure if any changes will be able to work across all the various Synology OS's & legacy products.  

Thanks for that.

I have installed Minimserver on my Synology NAS, how do I use it to stream music to the NDX ?

Easy, with the NAS and NDX on your network, the streamer will search for UPnP servers, and should find it. Just look in the UPnP input.

Daveyu,

Have you installed Minimwatch on your computer? You will need to do this in order to configure the Minimserver UPnP server on your NAS e.g. pointing it to the directory where your music files are kept and other settings.

Thanks for the advice Dave & all, I made the change to Asset so that it plays everything as WAV and I can certainly hear a difference (improvememt) as voices are less harsh and smoother.