Hello and a question about DACs

I would probably go with a complete Naim system NDX/202/200 OR NDX/282/200 going with the 200 power amp and not the 250 means you can power the preamp from the power amp directly without a separate psu.  I think your problem maybe the mismatch of different brands that all have different Sonic signatures the Naim NDX/202/200 were designed to go together as one and can be upgraded with separate psu's much like Cyrus be advised though that a Napsc separate psu is a must for both the 202 and 282.  Happy shopping.

Bob the Builder posted:

I would probably go with a complete Naim system NDX/202/200 OR NDX/282/200 going with the 200 power amp and not the 250 means you can power the preamp from the power amp directly without a separate psu.  I think your problem maybe the mismatch of different brands that all have different Sonic signatures the Naim NDX/202/200 were designed to go together as one and can be upgraded with separate psu's much like Cyrus be advised though that a Napsc separate psu is a must for both the 202 and 282.  Happy shopping.

I must agree with Bob, I would leave the addition of a PSU on the NDX till you have the Naim pre/power combination.

I would agree to the earlier advises. It's about matching things more. A 282 is a mighty pre-amp and can be paired with a 200 or a 250. The NDAC and a XPS could be planned as future upgrades. 

Don't settle for something less as a compromise with other brands unless well chosen can give you a dissapointment in the sound you are looking for.

With the OB1 I'd be looking at a 250DR minimum. Couple that with a 282/Hicap DR and you are away. Then later add an XPS DR to the NDX. I certainly wouldn't keep any Cyrus in the mix. 

I'm sort of going to disagree.

Yes going to a 282 / 250DR will, I believe, give a significantly better result than the Plinius pairing; however, the Plinius amps are no slouch in their own right.

I have no idea how a Naim pre with a Plinius poweramp will work as a pairing.  If you can't change over both the pre and poweramp together, then using an XPS DR on the NDX and loosing the Cyrus DAC may well give a better result.

Thank you all for your contributions. As I sort of said, I don't have a benchmark, am in no position to readily audition kit and, apart from regularly listening to a really good Naim set-up in the past, I am a Naim virgin and still coming to terms with the Naim range and its nomenclature. The only thing that is a definite, is that the NDX sounds much, much better than the Cyrus Stream X+ that previously resided in my system. The NDX seems to work well with my Plinius stuff, but I have nothing to compare it to, apart from my system in its previous configuration. I'm not aware of having a problem as such - but I may...

I have to admit to getting a bit over excited regarding a PSU for the NDX, so that's a done deal. It's half paid for and will be arriving next month. It's the fault of HMRC for giving me an unexpected tax rebate!!!

I'm in the UK in the summer and so will audition an NDX with an all Naim system - not ideal I know, but hopefully it will give me some idea. For now, there is no possibility of me switching directly to an all Naim system, I simply don't have the funds. As a first step, I can either replace my current DAC or my current preamp (I am factoring in their respective power supplies) - It looks as if the 282 meets with a degree of approval, so I would be happy to go 282 + Hicap. However, is there a general consensus that the preamp would be the best first step, rather than changing the DAC?

For me, there is a small, non SQ related advantage in changing the preamp first, as I have another nice preamp to sell to part fund any Naim purchase.

Keep your Plinius pre and power, I'd guess they are just as good as a 282/250 supercap combo. Only differences of presentation rather than any deficiencies. you can tune what you have in some ways by changing supports and cables. Naim used as a front end with other gear can be very good !!

If you're looking at DACs, I can recommend the Chord Hugo, and indeed its family. Quite a few on here have upgraded various Naim sources by adding Hugo -for me it was ND5XS, later finding a better renderer, and it seems popular as an upgrade to NDX amongst. I suggest searching these forums for more information - but in the end only your ears will tell you if it works for you. And don't be put off by its quirky appearance -it is small enough to hide if you don't like its appearance!

where do you store your music files - computer? NAS? 

Keep your Plinius pre and power, I'd guess they are just as good as a 282/250 supercap combo. Only differences of presentation rather than any deficiencies. you can tune what you have in some ways by changing supports and cables. Naim used as a front end with other gear can be very good !!

I was sort of thinking that, certainly in terms of the SA201, but was looking for a way of introducing a little more of the Naim sound to my system. I don't know, but I would have thought that a 282 would be a far superior pre than the M8???

If you're looking at DACs, I can recommend the Chord Hugo, and indeed its family. Quite a few on here have upgraded various Naim sources by adding Hugo -for me it was ND5XS, later finding a better renderer, and it seems popular as an upgrade to NDX amongst. I suggest searching these forums for more information - but in the end only your ears will tell you if it works for you. And don't be put off by its quirky appearance -it is small enough to hide if you don't like its appearance!

where do you store your music files - computer? NAS?

Yes, I've read a lot about the Hugo and was considering giving one a listen when I visit the UK in the summer. My files are stored on a Synology DS212+.

Kromatid posted:

Keep your Plinius pre and power, I'd guess they are just as good as a 282/250 supercap combo. Only differences of presentation rather than any deficiencies. you can tune what you have in some ways by changing supports and cables. Naim used as a front end with other gear can be very good !!

I was sort of thinking that, certainly in terms of the SA201, but was looking for a way of introducing a little more of the Naim sound to my system. I don't know, but I would have thought that a 282 would be a far superior pre than the M8???

I'm not so familiar with that. Not many have successfully paired a Naim pre or power with another brand. Only ones I've read have been involved with tubes, where someone used to valves contributions as a pre into Naim power amp.  Plus it would be argued ad nauseam what would introduce more Naim sound to your system - pre - or power - better to wholesale buy into Naim pre powers as they are really made for each other.

TOBYJUG posted:

Not many have successfully paired a Naim pre or power with another brand. Only ones I've read have been involved with tubes, where someone used to valves contributions as a pre into Naim power amp.  Plus it would be argued ad nauseam what would introduce more Naim sound to your system - pre - or power - better to wholesale buy into Naim pre powers as they are really made for each other.

What if it is not the "Naim Sound" someone is after, but best accuracy (where accuracy includes minimising smearing of timing, but not wanting any emphasis of anything?). Do the power amps help with that, perhaps fed by a more neutral preamp?

Innocent Bystander posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Not many have successfully paired a Naim pre or power with another brand. Only ones I've read have been involved with tubes, where someone used to valves contributions as a pre into Naim power amp.  Plus it would be argued ad nauseam what would introduce more Naim sound to your system - pre - or power - better to wholesale buy into Naim pre powers as they are really made for each other.

What if it is not the "Naim Sound" someone is after, but best accuracy (where accuracy includes minimising smearing of timing, but not wanting any emphasis of anything?). Do the power amps help with that, perhaps fed by a more neutral preamp?

Yes, I agree.

May I suggest the Supernait 2? It has good pairing with the NDX.

Ardbeg10y posted:

May I suggest the Supernait 2? It has good pairing with the NDX.

Good option I forgot to mention this, thanks for calling this out. This is a good road into the Naim world without the expense of the Naim separates.

Ardbeg10y posted:

May I suggest the Supernait 2? It has good pairing with the NDX.

Although I've not heard them, by repute I believe the Plinius combo may well be better than the SN2:  Without audition, a SN2's risky, as it may be a backward step.

Further more the OP is planning to move to an NDX + XPS DR, and that's a source that fully justifies the 282 / 250DR quality level.

Huge posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

May I suggest the Supernait 2? It has good pairing with the NDX.

Although I've not heard them, by repute I believe the Plinius combo may well be better than the SN2:  Without audition, a SN2's risky, as it may be a backward step.

Further more the OP is planning to move to an NDX + XPS DR, and that's a source that fully justifies the 282 / 250DR quality level.

OK, so a general response, before I pop off to the hospital for a cataract operation!

All contributors have given me a good deal of food for thought. There seems to be a majority consensus that I may be playing with fire by trying a combination that I can't audition, i.e. a Naim pre with my Plinius power and that it is best to go for an all Naim bottom end - I can audition this against my Plinius combo. Regarding said amplifiers, I'll wait until after I have auditioned before making any concrete plans; if the Plinius fares well against the Naim options, I can start saving for the Naim stuff, if I deem it gives a worthwhile improvement over my existing kit.

I'm actually getting a 555 to go with the NDX - I thought future proofing, as I am aiming to reach the giddy heights of an NDS some day... We'll see, no harm in dreaming!

In the meantime, I thought I may take the plunge and risk buying a used Naim DAC. If it shows potential against the Cyrus, which has the advantage of a PSU, I can go along with that and eventually get a suitable PSU. The DAC that loses out has a home waiting for it in my second system, to replace a DacMagic.

Hi, only partly a general reply, I use a 272 driving a 300(DR), and previously used an ND5 XS.  I have tried both these with and without external power supplies so I am aware of the effect of putting an XPS on them - to my ears the gain is considerable, and the 555 will give even more.  In my opinion you should try the NDX + 555 combination in place of your existing DAC:  The NDX can take three digital inputs and can itself act as a DAC as well as a streamer.  With a 555, it's a very good DAC in it's own right, and easily a good match for a 282 / 250DR.  An SN2, good as it is, won't quite make best use of the abilities of that combination.

Incidentally adding a 555 to an NDX will build solidly on the Naim strengths and characteristic Naim sound from the NDX, so it's well worth trying this with your current amps before committing hard earned cash to other boxes.  Doing one step at a time is usually a good principle, with the NDX + 555, you may find you don't need the nDAC with your current setup!

Huge posted:

Hi, only partly a general reply, I use a 272 driving a 300(DR), and previously used an ND5 XS.  I have tried both these with and without external power supplies so I am aware of the effect of putting an XPS on them - to my ears the gain is considerable, and the 555 will give even more.  In my opinion you should try the NDX + 555 combination in place of your existing DAC:  The NDX can take three digital inputs and can itself act as a DAC as well as a streamer.  With a 555, it's a very good DAC in it's own right, and easily a good match for a 282 / 250DR.  An SN2, good as it is, won't quite make best use of the abilities of that combination.

Incidentally adding a 555 to an NDX will build solidly on the Naim strengths and characteristic Naim sound from the NDX, so it's well worth trying this with your current amps before committing hard earned cash to other boxes.  Doing one step at a time is usually a good principle, with the NDX + 555, you may find you don't need the nDAC with your current setup!

Mm. I really should improve my French - turned to be just a consultation and a chat with the anaesthetist... Moving on.

Wise words I think - I had almost put the DAC element of the NDX to the back of my mind and hadn't given a thought to the possible impact of the 555 to the onboard DAC. I really liked the sound of the NDX using its own DAC, but thought that the Cyrus DAC + PSU improved so many other areas, that the loss of a little bit of musicality was a fair exchange. The 555 could be a game changer!

I'm happy that I can go to the UK with a good audition strategy and, if the impact of the 555 works out as you suggest it may, I should have a very good idea of my next steps. Thank you Huge, for the best suggestion yet!

I used to run a Rega Maia power amp  fed from a 282 with either a hicap or a flatcap, I don't remember any problems except not many dealers are aware Naim can supply a pair of DIN to phono cables to connect from the 'cap to the power amp. The 250 was better when it came but at 5x the cost you'd hope it would be.

Did your happen to import that Norton to France by the way? I'm looking into taking my Lemans 3 to use in Montpellier and leaving it there. This will require registering it in France but its age seems to create problems in doing this.

Wow. Lemon3 - I had one about 25 years ago. Nice machine, great sound quality!!!  And built like a tank, so presumably easy to maintain still.

Guzzi in Montpellier, should be no prob, crikey it's only a dozen power strokes from the Italian border! Don't ask a Commando owner they're heros, do marathons before breakfast and therefore see only positive outcomes. I own a Triumph and am therefore a realist! 

yeti42 posted:

I used to run a Rega Maia power amp  fed from a 282 with either a hicap or a flatcap, I don't remember any problems except not many dealers are aware Naim can supply a pair of DIN to phono cables to connect from the 'cap to the power amp. The 250 was better when it came but at 5x the cost you'd hope it would be.

Did your happen to import that Norton to France by the way? I'm looking into taking my Lemans 3 to use in Montpellier and leaving it there. This will require registering it in France but its age seems to create problems in doing this.

If I stick a 282 on my Plinius, it will be a leap of faith, regardless of my opinion that all should be fine - I'll see what the 555PS does, audition my Naim options in the summer and then take it from there. If I could audition a Plinius/Naim pairing, that would be great but, I think, unlikely. We'll see...

Just finished my 4th glass of Bordeaux, after getting over excited watching the rugby, taking my first sip of Ardmore and listening to Barb Jungr - my system sounds pretty good as it is TBF. Even from the next room!

I finished rebuilding my Commando while in France and it was fairly simple to register through the FFVE - if you don't know already, give it a Google. It takes a bit more time than registering a newer vehicle, as they always seem to have a backlog, but there is no requirement for a CT and classic bike insurance is readily available. An owners club is useful for providing the required details for your specific bike. Once you have the FFVE certificate, you can go ahead register the bike.

SAT posted:

Guzzi in Montpellier, should be no prob, crikey it's only a dozen power strokes from the Italian border! Don't ask a Commando owner they're heros, do marathons before breakfast and therefore see only positive outcomes. I own a Triumph and am therefore a realist! 

Harsh to say the least!!! I doubt if I could do a marathon before next year!

I bought my first Commando over 40 years ago, after running a Lambretta SX150 as my first and only two wheeled motorised vehicle to that date. The ride home from the showroom was entertaining to say the least!

I knew nothing about motorbikes and only chose the Commando over a Bonneville, because I liked the upswept exhausts. However, after riding a few Triumphs since, I'm more than happy with the choice I made and the opportunity to retain most of the fillings in my teeth...