Speaker wire for Naim NAP 300 DR and NAC N 272 /555 PS DR/ CORE

Naim NACA5, a lot of people here on the forum tried alternatives but end up with Naim's own speaker cable ...

Well, two 3m lengths of this cable cost £4,000, which is a lot of money. AQ Ethernet cables are excellent but I have no idea about the Aspen. If you are thinking of that sort of money it would be sensible to try Naim's own Super Lumina. 

I'm assuming you have already got a top notch stand such as Fraim, and that you have installed dedicated mains. Both come before posh cables in my experience. 

And do you want 'booster dose'? I'd be looking for an engaging musical experience. 

Yes, I liked the sound 

You need to have a word with your friendly dealer, who could let you try some speaker cable and interconnect options. Naims own SL is an option, TQ and Chord are very popular.

Theirs nothing like hearing these options in the comfort of your own home.

In my experience cables are extremely important to the synergy of any system,  so before you spend your money try listening to as many contenders as possible...

From the AQ website

"Aspen uses a carefully finessed combination of high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper (PSC), and extreme high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper+ (PSC+) conductors in a Self-Shielding Double Counter-Spiral HyperLitz design."

This strongly suggests that it's not an appropriate cable for use with Naim amplifiers.  If you have it on demo and haven't actually bought it, then I suggest you don't do so without first finding out the inductance and capacitance of the wire - it may be dangerously incompatible with Naim power amps.

HH, 2x3m of Aspen are £2040; all your other comments are fully justified though!

Naca5. Ask the dealer about his or hers margin on this wonderwank cable that you were sold. 

TQ and Chord both make good cables for a reasonable price and both work well, some would say as well or better than Naim's own 'budget' option, with current Naim amps.  Find a nice dealer who will lend you some to try.

Huge posted:

From the AQ website

"Aspen uses a carefully finessed combination of high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper (PSC), and extreme high-purity Perfect-Surface Copper+ (PSC+) conductors in a Self-Shielding Double Counter-Spiral HyperLitz design."

This strongly suggests that it's not an appropriate cable for use with Naim amplifiers.  If you have it on demo and haven't actually bought it, then I suggest you don't do so without first finding out the inductance and capacitance of the wire - it may be dangerously incompatible with Naim power amps.

Indeed,  without checking the capacitance & other spec's first,  this looks to be a cable to avoid if the Aspen is constructed like the picture of the AQ Oak - Oak is the next one up from the Aspen the 'Tree' range of cables.     

Hi Sanjeev, I agree with some of the other posts, it really is worth trying speaker cable at home.  This way you get the one the provides the sound that you like and fits in with the layout of your system and your domestic arrangements.  For example I went for Nordost Red Dawn because their sound balance meant that I could have my Dynaudio floor standers closer to the back wall - I wanted my speakers to sound really good, but also to take up less of my living space.  Naca5 didn't do it for me - too flat and congested sounding for my tastes, I also tried Chord, Van Den Hul and Kimber,  they sounded good, but required me to place the speakers further forwards into the room to get the quality of sound I wanted.  Best wishes Amer 

Hi Sanjeev, congratulations on your system, I have almost the same system as yourself except PS for the 272, I use an xpsdr.

I  used NACA5 speaker cables for many years but decided to try a few different cables as curiosity got the better of me. I tried many different cables encluding Super Lumina, Chord STA, AQ,TelluriumQ, AR Sound and Witch Hat, to name a few.

I used  TelluriumQ Black speaker cables for about a year with my previous  250.2 and 250dr amps. I upgraded my amp to the 300dr last year and managed to pick up a pair of Tellurium Black Diamond speaker cables pre owned after extensive trials of various cables, the results are nothing short of spectacular.

I know many folks do not agree with spending hight sums of money on cables especially on a more modest setup however I have found they make as much if not in some cases a greater improvement than adding black box.

My advice would be loan some cables from a friendly dealer, I managed to loan some Tellurium cables from a well known on line cable outlet as my local dealer did not stock them but was able to loan me the full SL loom to try out for a few week.

My advice would be don't be put off trying different cables other than Naim, I've been into this hobby of ours for the best part of 35 years and had many different bits of Naim kit over the years, one thing that has taught me is always to expect the unexpected and enjoy your journey and let your ears be the judge.

All the best.

Rob.

Rob T posted:

Hi Sanjeev, congratulations on your system, I have almost the same system as yourself except PS for the 272, I use an xpsdr.

I  used NACA5 speaker cables for many years but decided to try a few different cables as curiosity got the better of me. I tried many different cables encluding Super Lumina, Chord STA, AQ,TelluriumQ, AR Sound and Witch Hat, to name a few.

I used  TelluriumQ Black speaker cables for about a year with my previous  250.2 and 250dr amps. I upgraded my amp to the 300dr last year and managed to pick up a pair of Tellurium Black Diamond speaker cables pre owned after extensive trials of various cables, the results are nothing short of spectacular.

I know many folks do not agree with spending hight sums of money on cables especially on a more modest setup however I have found they make as much if not in some cases a greater improvement than adding black box.

My advice would be loan some cables from a friendly dealer, I managed to loan some Tellurium cables from a well known on line cable outlet as my local dealer did not stock them but was able to loan me the full SL loom to try out for a few week.

My advice would be don't be put off trying different cables other than Naim, I've been into this hobby of ours for the best part of 35 years and had many different bits of Naim kit over the years, one thing that has taught me is always to expect the unexpected and enjoy your journey and let your ears be the judge.

All the best.

Rob.

And the wellbeing of your amplifier. 

I have auditioned the AQ Aspen in my system. Just because I could, out of curiosity, no intension to buy. I think they are stunningly good. My 200 amp didn't blink an eye. As it never has, with any speaker cable. 

My Naim dealer uses AQ tree series speaker cables all the time. From 250s up to the Statement. No worries there. 

Huge posted:

HH, 2x3m of Aspen are £2040; all your other comments are fully justified though!

You are right - I missed the critical word 'pair' when I looked up the price. 

NACA5 should be listened to before dismissing. It's very good. You may have done this already. As stated frequently above, a good dealer will advise you and let you take some home for audition before you part with money.

KTMax posted:

...
My 200 amp didn't blink an eye. As it never has, with any speaker cable. 
...

How do you know this, how did you measure the stability margin?

When I moved from a Nait XS to a 300(DR) I changed from using an Audioquest speaker cable to DNM Resolution.  The main reason I did this was because the electrical characteristics of the AQ cable were marginal for a Classic Series poweramp (the integrateds are designed with more tolerance built in).  Even if there were no audible signs of distress from the amp, the inappropriate load would still be causing some stress to the amp's components.

Factual you are right Huge. But I do think the 'NACA5 or your amp could be in danger'  thing is made bigger than the 'danger' really is. I guess at least half of the NACA5 sales is driven by this perceived danger & fear. 

In my 25 years with Naim amps I've used and tried countless speaker cables in all shapes & sizes and not one ever caused any issue. During service no stress or 'hard use' ever showed. Just lucky? Possibly but I don't think so. All I'm saying is, there is no need to be overly afraid to try & use other cables. Just avoid cables with extreme specs far outside Naim's guidelines. 

Contrary to many Naim-heads I've never been able to get satisfying results with the NACA5 to put it mildly. 

In the case of the OP and your test of AQ Aspen, the wire in question is a 'hyperlitz' design.  Whilst I agree that almost any simple parallel pair wire (or parallel pair with an unconnected shield) is going to be OK, there are a number of designs that can potentially cause real problems for Naim amps.  The three most common of these types are hyperlitz, shielded cables with earthed shields and close spaced parallel tube configurations.  These are all prone to unacceptably high capacitance and low inductance characteristics.  Note also that I didn't rule out these designs completely, I just said that their electrical characteristics should be checked first; if the electrical characteristics are OK then there's no fundamental problem with any of these designs.

Incidentally did you know that the wrong speaker wire, when used between Naim amps and some speakers can result in the failure of the tweeter rather than the failure of the amp?

I wonder which speaker cable has unconnected shields as that makes no sense at all?

KTMax posted:

I wonder which speaker cable has unconnected shields as that makes no sense at all?

https://www.naimaudio.com/prod...er-cables#technology     

Mike-B posted:

KTMax posted:

I wonder which speaker cable has unconnected shields as that makes no sense at all?

https://www.naimaudio.com/prod...er-cables#technology     

I read nothing about unconnectd shield(s) or am I missing something?

Yes,  missing the point completely. SL is a screened cable.  Lots of speaker cables are screened,  Chord are the most notable other.  The screens are not required to be connected.

KTMax,    if I can take it further about Litz speaker cable,  I see in your profile you have Cardas Golden Cross,  this is a Litz construction meaning its got many small diameter insulated wires bundled together.    

This gives high capacitance & low inductance,  this is just the opposite that is required by Naim where the speaker cable is used to apply an inductance load to stabilize the output stage against HF capacitive reactance & resultant overload.     Other make of amps apply this important required inductance load with an internal wire coil inductor to do this - plus whatever inductance the end user installs with his/her chosen speaker cable.  

Naim recommend a minimum of 3.5m of NACA5 because this gives the required minimum inductance load.   NACA5 has 1uH/m  3.5m = 3.5uH & the minimum required. Additionally it has 16pF/m capacitance.   Cardas Golden Cross has 0.0368uH per foot = 0.1207uH/m.      The problem that Litz brings is high capacitance & @ 154pF per foot = 505.25pF/m it is very high.    

So assuming you have 3.5m (just for example) of speaker cable

Inductance:     Cardas GC = 0.422uH                NACA5  =  3.5uH

Capacitance:   Cardas GC = 1768pF                  NACA5  =  56pF

I will leave you to consider the comparative numbers, but I would say your amp is close to not being happy,   However if it sounds OK & you are happy with it,  who can say different.   But if it was my amp I would be considering to change to - or at least try - a non-litz replacement.    

KTMax posted:

Factual you are right Huge. But I do think the 'NACA5 or your amp could be in danger'  thing is made bigger than the 'danger' really is. I guess at least half of the NACA5 sales is driven by this perceived danger & fear. 

In my 25 years with Naim amps I've used and tried countless speaker cables in all shapes & sizes and not one ever caused any issue. During service no stress or 'hard use' ever showed. Just lucky? Possibly but I don't think so. All I'm saying is, there is no need to be overly afraid to try & use other cables. Just avoid cables with extreme specs far outside Naim's guidelines. 

Contrary to many Naim-heads I've never been able to get satisfying results with the NACA5 to put it mildly. 

 

Hi KTMax,

Generally you can "get away" with all sorts of speaker cables - you're right, not using NAC-A5 is unlikely to cause the doorbell to ring and have the four horsemen of the apocalypse gleefully standing there when you answer it. You are highly unlikely to let any magic smoke out.

However using inappropriate cables can cause amplifiers to run hotter than they normally would or can skew the response of the amp or make it sound hard or brittle.

Ultimately (and yes, I know I would be expected to say this) no matter what I try in the way of 'sensibly priced' cables I seem to always end up plundering my stash of NAC-A5 as it works so nicely - it is a bit of a pig to work with of course and I do acknowledge that.

Best

Phil