Downsizing thoughts - (Don't worry, it'll soon pass).

dave marshall posted:

"do I really need all this kit in order to enjoy music"?

I think that's a good question to ask yourself every now and then Dave. It's all to easy to get caught up in the upgrading spiral and end up very far up the tree. We all have our different levels at which musical enjoyment is found and sometimes it's nice to take a step back to see how much you've really gained in the process. At least borrowing the 272 will give you another reference point and a good guide of the direction to go in. 

I'll be interested in your findings

James

Hi Dave, I did hospital radio half a lifetime ago spinning 'the platters that matter'. I don't know what the gear was apart from LS3/5as and bellwire. Always sounded great in the studio*. Hard surfaces were minimised, there were carpets on the walls as well as the floor, and the ceiling had acoustic treatments.

I mention this in the context of your room treatments thread (which I've not read). I'd get the room right before I made any gear decisions. I'm taking my own advice.

Best, Chris

* the listener experience, who knows?

Hungryhalibut posted:

£50,000 worth of stuff just to listen to music. Do you really need it. Been there, done that, realised that you don't. 

Go on;  go the whole hog then. Sell the 250Dr/272 and buy an mp3 player. 

yeti42 posted:

Seems a shame to make such a sacrifice for something as soulless as half a BMW, or even a whole one. 

 

Is it a sacrifice to buy a motorcycle?  No, it isn't.  It's all about choices.  Life's short, if Pev wants a hifi and a motorcycle, who are you to judge?

True  if you look at Pev's profile he mentions motorcycles...it is clearly something he enjoys. In my younger years I would spend what most would consider an exorbitant sum on ice hockey skates, because playing the game me a great deal of pleasure and I wanted to me my best. Now I am looking at having to buy what will certainly be my last pair, and I will buy good ones, but not go for the top of the line as I would have in the past. What could be more "soulless" than a pair of ice skates? Yet even in my fading years of athletic prowess, I see the beauty in them, and yearn for the body I once had that could take advantage of them.

Each of us has our passions, and one person's is not mine, and mine is not the same as someone else.

In the end it is all hobby - there are people in parts of the world dreaming of an upgrade to 2 meals a day.

dave marshall posted:

Only one way to find out then, borrow that 272, and see what happens.

I think that you should, and I'd love to hear your feedback.

Its all about balance and appreciating what you have got.  For the past four or five years every disposable penny I've had has gone on my hifi and it's been worth the money because I am really happy with the sound I get now and enjoy it every time I listen.  I know that it's easily possible to get better but I don't need and have twice passed on the chance to move to seperate pre and power amps simply because I love the sound I currently get.  Last year I decided that I would stop spending on hifi now and move back into motorcycling, a hobby I've had since I was a teenager but was forced to stop when my son and a new house came along 13 years ago.  I've broken my promise by buying a flatcap XS a month or two ago but I have also bought a bike, and one for Mrs DayJay too.  I don't intend spending anything on hifi for the next two or three years and I don't believe that I need to, I appreciate what I have and it's a joy every time I listen to it, upgrading would be wrong to me in those circumstances.  All about balance (especially on a bike!)

DrMark posted:

 

In the end it is all hobby - there are people in parts of the world dreaming of an upgrade to 2 meals a day.

Well said, that man. 

Why? Do you need money or Space? 

Use the best that you can afford without starving the family or driving same car for 45 years

OK having a almost 20k £ source with 2 PS is little crazy unless you are very comfortable with money but who cares if you can  afford it

The minute you need money for something else a hugo2 will be a fine source I guess

I own similar  "downsized" setup up that you have in mind and I find it " more than enough" for mortals like me, but if I win a lottery I would not hesitate to order statement, but if i order a statement today it would be very stupid thing to do for a hobby

Depends where you are with money and opportunity cost rather then cost

No, need neither the money nor the space, it's just a question of, having come this far, does one actually need all this kit to enjoy listening to music?

As mentioned, I'm considering a NAP 500 DR, and it's probably this that's prompted this thought.

At least, since starting this thread, I see I'm not the only one to have had similar nagging doubts, so it seems reasonable to borrow a 272, and put this thing to bed, one way or t'other. 

dave marshall posted:

No, need neither the money nor the space, it's just a question of, having come this far, does one actually need all this kit to enjoy listening to music?

As mentioned, I'm considering a NAP 500 DR, and it's probably this that's prompted this thought.

At least, since starting this thread, I see I'm not the only one to have had similar nagging doubts, so it seems reasonable to borrow a 272, and put this thing to bed, one way or t'other. 

That's a great position to be in Dave.

Get the 272, set it up with you're  300 as you say, and let her warm up.

goto bed, forget what you already have and then start listening as normal.

If you find 'foot tapping' and a smile on your face comes naturally, I suppose you have you're answer. 

Whether you want to pull the trigger though is for you to decide.

good luck with it.  

It seems you have 3 choices, upgrade, downsize or stay put. Not much mention of staying put. 

I currently have 4 free spaces of FRAIM. Once I found Roon with a decent DAC bested my CD555, it seemed silly to have it as a work of modern art. But I did take quite a hit selling on. 

So perhaps your best option is to stick rather than twist. From your 2 choices it looks like you just want to do something. 

Or try something leftfield, get Roon, stick it on a PC or Mac and get a Sonore product to get it to talk to your NDS, a spend of say £5 - 700, that will totally transform the way you listen to your music collection. 

My main system is 552->300DR -> SL2 having plodded along from 112x/150x so I fully understand the upgrade bug. I've sold on a CD555 and n-DAC/xps2 so I've been down a (semi) downsize route. 

I think it is amps that Naim are still best at, I'd think long and hard before reducing your level of amplification, whereas I think the NDS has the air of an IPad 1 about it now and trying Roon will show you just how far off it is from the competition. (I'm taking interface rather than sound here). 

What may make me move on from Naim amplification is the necessity to leave it powered all the time. A fully active speaker system like the Kii 3 looks very interesting to me, but I've yet to hear it. If Naim stays I'll have to find some way of negating its power use via solar or some such. I feel we have got to the stage where this is just too much to ignore and my eldest daughter is putting it up to her Dad who says it's really up to governments to tackle climate control, where my daughter will argue that if i (we) stop buying Naim because of its power requirements Naim will evolve and provide a solution. They won't for the good of the planet but will for the good of their shares. I feel she has a point. 

A long ramble on this sunny Saturday.....

.sjb

Oops - didn't want to divert the thread with my meant-to-be-throwaway comment about putting the profit from my downsize towards a motorcycle. Just to be clear, I was not in any need of the money (I'd have bought the bike anyway) or the space but just reporting what I did. My default when I have surplus money has always been to buy a motorcycle; BU (before Uniti) it was to buy a motorcycle and a Naim box. I still have 9 motorcycles but am currently selling 2 with the intention of buying a really nice pre war project to keep me busy in the workshop.

My point if there is one, is that I can feel uneasy about a lot of money being tied up in one thing or aspect of life and whether it is worth it. To revert to my other passion, I did have a Brough Superior motorcycle but sold it because it became worth so much I was worried about people following me home to steal it. I sold it and bought 3 other bikes which are collectively much more fun.

I think it does no harm to mentally review one's choices occasionally and see if there are other ways of allocating resources to maximise satisfaction and I guess that is what the OP is doing. These days I'm taking a lot more foreign holidays ....

Dave this might help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arPCE3zDRg4

ATB Graham.

Ok, I'll try to summarize my unnecessary long advice to just one sentence: have fun.

Best

Max

Just to prolong the suspense, I've managed to "borrow" a 272, which will arrive early next week, so let the "fun" commence.

I must admit, whilst trying to arrange this over the last couple of weeks, that, all things being equal, the notion of reducing the box count down to 4, on a single stack of Fraim, is increasingly appealing.

Who knows, whilst the 272 is clearly not in the same league as my 552 / NDS, will it satisfy my ageing, and less than perfect ears?

Let's see.

Noooooo... a heretic... burn him on a pyre....  

On a serious note Dave: I was about to go down a similar route (NDX + nDAC + 555PS + SN2 + HiCap DR  FOR N272 + 555PS + NAP 300). 

So I will wait for your test before I twist my dealer's arms to loan me a N272 and a NAP. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Noooooo... a heretic... burn him on a pyre....  

---

 

Hi Adam,

I'd be being less than honest, if I didn't concede that a small part of what started me pondering about the twin stacks of Fraim, full of black boxes, is exactly that .............. do I really need all this kit, in order to enjoy listening to music?

Also, as my hearing is not what it once was, (don't worry, it'll happen to all of us, in time), could a much lesser system satisfy?

Anyway, it's a no cost option to find out, and from what I've read elsewhere on the forum, I ought to be getting the maximum from the 272, in tandem with my 555PS DR, and 300DR.

Maybe I'll be forced into a similar position in a few years time as far as the Les Pauls are concerned, once the arthritis kicks in! 

Dave.

Hi Dave,

You should quite rightly do the demonstration and you shouldn't have to justify it to anyone.

Do what's right for you and you only,

Regards

PB

Wise words from Polarbear.

dave marshall posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Noooooo... a heretic... burn him on a pyre....  

---

 

Hi Adam,

I'd be being less than honest, if I didn't concede that a small part of what started me pondering about the twin stacks of Fraim, full of black boxes, is exactly that .............. do I really need all this kit, in order to enjoy listening to music?

Also, as my hearing is not what it once was, (don't worry, it'll happen to all of us, in time), could a much lesser system satisfy?

Anyway, it's a no cost option to find out, and from what I've read elsewhere on the forum, I ought to be getting the maximum from the 272, in tandem with my 555PS DR, and 300DR.

Maybe I'll be forced into a similar position in a few years time as far as the Les Pauls are concerned, once the arthritis kicks in! 

Dave.

 

Dave - I look forward to your tests results.

One thing that I find appealing with N272 is that it has an optional FM / DAB tuner (my NDX has it too and it gets used practically every day for at least 3-4 hours).

Whats wrong with digital radio? Almost all good stations have digital versions as well.

Adam is an old man, who uses typewriter for letters and FM for music 272 user are young guys like me....

He wants a FM Radio/MUSO for kitchen...with analog controls as well...

Jokes aside I think they could not fit in the radio module and maybe ndx radio module was not a hot seller

Radio Gaga....

The FM sounds better than the digital, even with the BBC HLS streams. I wouldn't be without my FM module in the 272, especially when the internet goes down on occasion. 

Emre posted:

Whats wrong with digital radio? Almost all good stations have digital versions as well.

Adam is an old man, who uses typewriter for letters and FM for music 272 user are young guys like me....

He wants a FM Radio/MUSO for kitchen...with analog controls as well...

Jokes aside I think they could not fit in the radio module and maybe ndx radio module was not a hot seller

Radio Gaga....

FM is way, way better - have a large roof arial for that Imagine listening to a CD vs a low-quality MP3 (most iRadio is streamed in 128 kbs, FM uses analogue compression and decompression).

Unfortunately Muso was not available with an FM module, so I had to get a SuperUniti for the kitchen