LAN cabling

Emre posted:

dikkiedirk posted:

Emre posted:

dikkiedirk posted:

TELEGARTNER MFP8 T568B

Emre posted:

Audioquest cinnamons are not bad, I am using them

You can also find the an cable supplier which sells beldin cables and add telegathners and make your own custom cables cat6 cat7

They are the suppliers for blue jeans cables anyway

 

What are telegathners? Where do you get it?

 I paid something like 1,5€ per metre for top Belden cables and 10/15€ for each telegartner to make my long ethernet cable from local electronic supplier, they patch the cord and we tested, 50€ for 20metre top cabling is not too bad

this is diy cheap solution for top cables

before that i was using 20m for 20€ cheap as cables which were really slow despite the cat6 badge on them, so very bad cables exist

but like been said you can just buy decent ethernet cables and enjoy them

i like fiddling 

hope you enjoy your new toy, tidal also is a good way to find new music also not too bad to enjoy old ones

 

Can you tell me which cable exactly? Is it flexible? I haven't be able to find Belden cables per meter, only per 100 meter locally. Where did you get it?

I got it from local electronics store in Turkey, unfortunately they are not very flexible 

Google "protel-elektronik", you will find telegathners as well, the site is in Turkish but it will give you an idea

BELDEN 10GXE02
Cat.6A S/FTP, Halojensiz

 

Not the cable I have in mind, I like it more flexible.

Timo posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I any quality Cat 5e cable or better is ideal. The switch doesn't need to be near the Uniqute, in fact there can be advantages having it further away. Because you are using a switch it doesn't matter what else is attached to it.

I wondered: does it matter whether the NAS is connected to the switch to which the streamer is connected, or is connecting the NAS to the router as fine? When reading up, it seemed the NAS was  commonly connected to the streamer's switch. 

Cheers!

Hi it really makes no difference. The one caveat is some older consumer grade broadband routers don't contain high throughput switchports, and can suffer from overheating or other issues when using them as a switch, but using most modern half descent consumer grade broadband routers with incoporated switchports is fine. Again in practice and being reasonable there is no harm / issue in daisychaining switches together.

The good thing is that our data requirements for audio are relatively trivial these days.

To that point unless your home is a noisy data centre and/or you have Ethernet cable looms running over many tens of metres or you are using line speeds of 10Gbs then unshielded Cat5e is perfect. By all means play with different cables between switchports and directly connected to your audio streamer as they will act as a sort of RF stub and tune or 'shape' the noise that might affect streamer performance due to RF coupling. A cheap ferrite choke or two  around a standard cable can have a similar effect.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Timo posted:

I wondered: does it matter whether the NAS is connected to the switch to which the streamer is connected, or is connecting the NAS to the router as fine? When reading up, it seemed the NAS was  commonly connected to the streamer's switch. 

Cheers!

Hi it really makes no difference. The one caveat is some older consumer grade broadband routers don't contain high throughput switchports, and can suffer from overheating or other issues when using them as a switch, but using most modern half descent consumer grade broadband routers with incoporated switchports is fine. Again in practice and being reasonable there is no harm / issue in daisychaining switches together.

The good thing is that our data requirements for audio are relatively trivial these days.

To that point unless your home is a noisy data centre and/or you have Ethernet cable looms running over many tens of metres or you are using line speeds of 10Gbs then unshielded Cat5e is perfect. By all means play with different cables between switchports and directly connected to your audio streamer as they will act as a sort of RF stub and tune or 'shape' the noise that might affect streamer performance due to RF coupling. A cheap ferrite choke or two  around a standard cable can have a similar effect.

Simon

That's reassuring -- thanks a lot Simon.

I should now really get a proper NAS set-up in the corridor (probably a QNAP TS-251+) and create a wired connection. We have a 2-year old EE router for fibre broadband -- that should be "half descent" I hope. Then I thought about getting a custom-length Audioquest CAT6 (about 12m -- I shall re-measure...) for the connection between broadband router and switch (probably a small one from Netgear), and then get an Audioquest Cinnamon for the last leg between switch and streamer.

But before all this starts, a trip to Wickes for a long enough masonry drill bit...

Timo 

Brilliant posted:

^Give the Tera Grand 'CAT-7 10 Gigabit Ultra Flat Ethernet Patch Braided Cable' or as I have understood from another forum member the non-braided one which is even thinner!  They are thin and fairly flexible but well made and very well priced. When I tried a batch of different cables in my application (including the very nice but stiff Audioquest Diamond), they came out on top for SQ. Tera Grand has a website- check them out.

Just put in a couple of these (the 1m round cable model with 'double shielding') replacing a Meicord Opal (upstairs) and an AQ cinnamon (office) and I would say the Tera Grand beat both (both coming after FMC's and before the streamers. No idea if at Diamond level (never heard) but gives a more relaxed, less fatiguing presentation while retaining all of the detail and prat.  No need for fancy boutique cables after all! 

charlesphoto posted:

Brilliant posted:

^Give the Tera Grand 'CAT-7 10 Gigabit Ultra Flat Ethernet Patch Braided Cable' or as I have understood from another forum member the non-braided one which is even thinner!  They are thin and fairly flexible but well made and very well priced. When I tried a batch of different cables in my application (including the very nice but stiff Audioquest Diamond), they came out on top for SQ. Tera Grand has a website- check them out.

Just put in a couple of these (the 1m round cable model with 'double shielding') replacing a Meicord Opal (upstairs) and an AQ cinnamon (office) and I would say the Tera Grand beat both (both coming after FMC's and before the streamers. No idea if at Diamond level (never heard) but gives a more relaxed, less fatiguing presentation while retaining all of the detail and prat.  No need for fancy boutique cables after all! 

Glad you like them, and thanks for the feedback as I have not listened to the round one.

Brilliant posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Brilliant posted:

^Give the Tera Grand 'CAT-7 10 Gigabit Ultra Flat Ethernet Patch Braided Cable' or as I have understood from another forum member the non-braided one which is even thinner!  They are thin and fairly flexible but well made and very well priced. When I tried a batch of different cables in my application (including the very nice but stiff Audioquest Diamond), they came out on top for SQ. Tera Grand has a website- check them out.

Just put in a couple of these (the 1m round cable model with 'double shielding') replacing a Meicord Opal (upstairs) and an AQ cinnamon (office) and I would say the Tera Grand beat both (both coming after FMC's and before the streamers. No idea if at Diamond level (never heard) but gives a more relaxed, less fatiguing presentation while retaining all of the detail and prat.  No need for fancy boutique cables after all! 

Glad you like them, and thanks for the feedback as I have not listened to the round one.

Which round one exactly? Is it available through Amazon? What are FMC's

dikkiedirk posted:

Brilliant posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Brilliant posted:

^Give the Tera Grand 'CAT-7 10 Gigabit Ultra Flat Ethernet Patch Braided Cable' or as I have understood from another forum member the non-braided one which is even thinner!  They are thin and fairly flexible but well made and very well priced. When I tried a batch of different cables in my application (including the very nice but stiff Audioquest Diamond), they came out on top for SQ. Tera Grand has a website- check them out.

Just put in a couple of these (the 1m round cable model with 'double shielding') replacing a Meicord Opal (upstairs) and an AQ cinnamon (office) and I would say the Tera Grand beat both (both coming after FMC's and before the streamers. No idea if at Diamond level (never heard) but gives a more relaxed, less fatiguing presentation while retaining all of the detail and prat.  No need for fancy boutique cables after all! 

Glad you like them, and thanks for the feedback as I have not listened to the round one.

Which round one exactly? Is it available through Amazon? What are FMC's

Good question - I assumed he meant the 'Premium CAT-7 Double Shielded 10 Gigabit 600MHz Ethernet Cable'.

edit: TG p/nCAT7-7000-..K (from their website)?

Be careful at Amazon - there seem to be counterfeits being reported.

FMC = Fibre Media Converters. These are used by some enthusiasts to break the hard wired link with an optical loop as an attempt to isolate a downstream component from noise that may be generated upstream.

more info at wiki, computeraudiophile, audiostream

Brilliant posted:

dikkiedirk posted:

Brilliant posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Brilliant posted:

^Give the Tera Grand 'CAT-7 10 Gigabit Ultra Flat Ethernet Patch Braided Cable' or as I have understood from another forum member the non-braided one which is even thinner!  They are thin and fairly flexible but well made and very well priced. When I tried a batch of different cables in my application (including the very nice but stiff Audioquest Diamond), they came out on top for SQ. Tera Grand has a website- check them out.

Just put in a couple of these (the 1m round cable model with 'double shielding') replacing a Meicord Opal (upstairs) and an AQ cinnamon (office) and I would say the Tera Grand beat both (both coming after FMC's and before the streamers. No idea if at Diamond level (never heard) but gives a more relaxed, less fatiguing presentation while retaining all of the detail and prat.  No need for fancy boutique cables after all! 

Glad you like them, and thanks for the feedback as I have not listened to the round one.

Which round one exactly? Is it available through Amazon? What are FMC's

Good question - I assumed he meant the 'Premium CAT-7 Double Shielded 10 Gigabit 600MHz Ethernet Cable'.

edit: TG p/nCAT7-7000-..K (from their website)?

Be careful at Amazon - there seem to be counterfeits being reported.

FMC = Fibre Media Converters. These are used by some enthusiasts to break the hard wired link with an optical loop as an attempt to isolate a downstream component from noise that may be generated upstream.

more info at wiki, computeraudiophile, audiostream

 

Entirely different situation than connecting an UQ2 to a switch or router, which is what this thread is about. Can't going from hardwired to optical and back to wired introduce jitter?

^

Setups and tradeoffs  come into play. We can only share our own individual experiences, and even then up to a point. I have used an FMC loop between a TPlink switch & the Sonore microRendu feeding the DAC-V1 very successfully (reported on another thread). Other keen ears also report success in some setups on other forums. I have never tried this though with any Naim streamer.

Same as above, but also using as setup from D-link switch to a pair of FMC's into a Naim streamer, UQ1. And I have to say, I've never found the UQ (feeding wall mounted Kef Ls50's) so involving as it is now - the setup makes me want to sit at my desk and just listen! Don't knock FMC's (with or without a fancy switch before/after) until you try them! 

charlesphoto posted:

Same as above, but also using as setup from D-link switch to a pair of FMC's into a Naim streamer, UQ1. And I have to say, I've never found the UQ (feeding wall mounted Kef Ls50's) so involving as it is now - the setup makes me want to sit at my desk and just listen! Don't knock FMC's (with or without a fancy switch before/after) until you try them! 

What FMCs? At what price?

dikkiedirk posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Same as above, but also using as setup from D-link switch to a pair of FMC's into a Naim streamer, UQ1. And I have to say, I've never found the UQ (feeding wall mounted Kef Ls50's) so involving as it is now - the setup makes me want to sit at my desk and just listen! Don't knock FMC's (with or without a fancy switch before/after) until you try them! 

What FMCs? At what price?

TP-Link MC100's with iFi SMPS's and 1 meter of cable. Total cost without iFi's under $75. 

charlesphoto posted:

dikkiedirk posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Same as above, but also using as setup from D-link switch to a pair of FMC's into a Naim streamer, UQ1. And I have to say, I've never found the UQ (feeding wall mounted Kef Ls50's) so involving as it is now - the setup makes me want to sit at my desk and just listen! Don't knock FMC's (with or without a fancy switch before/after) until you try them! 

What FMCs? At what price?

TP-Link MC100's with iFi SMPS's and 1 meter of cable. Total cost without iFi's under $75. 

Would the MC200 do to? You need 2 of those don't you? The connected to eac other by an optical cable? Is this cable supplied? Do you have them close to the streamer or to the switch?

Would indeed be a great alternative to those expensive AQ cables, just hate to use another 2 of those power adapters. Can't 2 FMCs be power by one iFi?

dikkiedirk posted:

Would indeed be a great alternative to those expensive AQ cables, just hate to use another 2 of those power adapters. Can't 2 FMCs be power by one iFi?

No, the iFi iPower is a single output SMPS.

I'm powering both a 5v switch and a 5v FMC with one 5v iFi. You need to get a dc Y adaptor (cheap off eBay or Amazon). Some say it may be introducing ground issues by doing that (powering both up and down stream FMC's with one power source) but like a lot of this stuff that may be overthinking. Best to try. I don't know about the MC200's - it was suggested the 10/100 MC100 was a better fir for the microRendu. This is a pretty inexpensive tweak though, and there's always a ned/market for these little buggers so easy to move on if you change your mind, unlike most boutique audio cables where you'll lose a lot (if one can even find a buyer). 

charlesphoto posted:

I'm powering both a 5v switch and a 5v FMC with one 5v iFi. You need to get a dc Y adaptor (cheap off eBay or Amazon). Some say it may be introducing ground issues by doing that (powering both up and down stream FMC's with one power source) but like a lot of this stuff that may be overthinking. Best to try. I don't know about the MC200's - it was suggested the 10/100 MC100 was a better fir for the microRendu. This is a pretty inexpensive tweak though, and there's always a ned/market for these little buggers so easy to move on if you change your mind, unlike most boutique audio cables where you'll lose a lot (if one can even find a buyer). 

Well I am not even considering LAN cables of over 10 Euros/meter. Does MC100s I might consider however.

charlesphoto posted:

I don't know about the MC200's - it was suggested the 10/100 MC100 was a better fir for the microRendu.  

FWIW, I tried with two MC200s 1000Base-T (after a Paul Pang 10/100 switch and before the NDS) and it simply didn't work i.e. the connection wasn't being maded. Had to swap them out for two MC100s.

sbilotta posted:

charlesphoto posted:

I don't know about the MC200's - it was suggested the 10/100 MC100 was a better fir for the microRendu.  

FWIW, I tried with two MC200s 1000Base-T (after a Paul Pang 10/100 switch and before the NDS) and it simply didn't work i.e. the connection wasn't being maded. Had to swap them out for two MC100s.

I believe the TPLink media converters have to match the device they are connected to. So as the NDS is 10/100, you would need the MC100 connected to it. The workaround being to attach a Gb switch in between, so that the MC22 sees that, not the NDS.