I really would give a wide berth... unless you need to have a link longer than 100 metres, and even then just use between two switches. These devices may well add a lot of carrier noise which would be bad. At best they are going to mitigate common mode noise which can be dealt very effectively with ferrite clamps or even some coiled loops of Ethernet lead, and they won't interfere with the physical clocking of the network signal.

I say you are better off with a quality switch  connected to you streamer using 100BaseT cables.

if and when Naim introduce fibre SFPs, then use a switch that can support at least one of  them, such as most 2960s

Simon

Serge,

If you are going to do this, and I have, then the advice is to:

1. Replace the SMPSs with Linear PSUs; and

2. Use the 10/100 FMCs, not the Gigabit - Gb are apparently inherently noisier.

That said, now that I've got my system working really well I am going to strip all the 'devices' out and start again, hear what really does add to the pudding.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Serge,

If you are going to do this, and I have, then the advice is to:

1. Replace the SMPSs with Linear PSUs; and

2. Use the 10/100 FMCs, not the Gigabit - Gb are apparently inherently noisier.

That said, now that I've got my system working really well I am going to strip all the 'devices' out and start again, hear what really does add to the pudding.

M

Ok thanks, do you mean replacing PSUs of the switches? 

Mr Underhill posted:

Serge,

If you are going to do this, and I have, then the advice is to:

1. Replace the SMPSs with Linear PSUs; and

2. Use the 10/100 FMCs, not the Gigabit - Gb are apparently inherently noisier.

That said, now that I've got my system working really well I am going to strip all the 'devices' out and start again, hear what really does add to the pudding.

M

Do you hear real difference? 

Replace the SMPS of the FMCs.

Hear a real difference?
Yes. But, does that mean better? I have made a lot of changes over the past few months and so would like to determine what makes the most positive difference. Here were my initial thoughts:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/network-isolation

However, when I first read about Audioquest network cables, for instance, I thought, "Mugs game". I then bought a Cinnamon and put it in my system, over the months I went through system changes and my opinions went through:

1. Wow, detail and dynamics;
2. Mmmm, too much edge and detail;
3. OK, I like it for some music; and
4. Finally, I recently slotted it back in = WHAT, it now sounds tonally WARM and detailed - and so I am currently using it and would recommend it.

As always with these things YMMV, but it is a cheap experiment.

M

I have two sets of FMC's - one set before the microRendu in the main system (MC100's downstream powered by HDPLEX, upstream powered by iFi SMPS on different circuit) and a set in the office before the UQ (MC100's again, power by iFi SMPS all off of the same circuit and one iFi splitting to a switch as well) and in both cases it was like the proverbial veil being lifted, instruments more defined in space, inky blackness, etc. For less than $100/set (not counting power sources though) it's a pretty cheap tweak. Of course YMMV - for example Simon suggests the big Cisco switches - I tried that but the used switch I bought was so noisy (and big) I returned it - and the FMC's work for me. 

The switch Simon recommends, and which I use, is not big physically - it's the 8 port version, which has no fan and is totally silent. 

charlesphoto posted:

I have two sets of FMC's - one set before the microRendu in the main system (MC100's downstream powered by HDPLEX, upstream powered by iFi SMPS on different circuit) and a set in the office before the UQ (MC100's again, power by iFi SMPS all off of the same circuit and one iFi splitting to a switch as well) and in both cases it was like the proverbial veil being lifted, instruments more defined in space, inky blackness, etc. For less than $100/set (not counting power sources though) it's a pretty cheap tweak. Of course YMMV - for example Simon suggests the big Cisco switches - I tried that but the used switch I bought was so noisy (and big) I returned it - and the FMC's work for me. 

i have the same with hdplex and the effect was immediate and better sound quality ( for only 120 euros). When i change my ethernet cable from mcru to audioquest diamond ( 7 times more expensive), the effect was less pronounced !   so optical bridge : yes yes yes

Hi Keler,

Glad it has worked for you too.

M

Hungryhalibut posted:

The switch Simon recommends, and which I use, is not big physically - it's the 8 port version, which has no fan and is totally silent. 

I guess it's all relative. If you only need 5 ports or less, and need to hide it behind the furniture, a little Netgear consumer switch is a great deal easier at maybe a quarter of the size.

Ok thanks guys for your feedbacks.

My problem is that I have 3 + 3 WD NAS systems installed, so only for NAS systems I need (3x2 + 3x1) 9 ports. Then the rest of the equipment + 10 at least.

I was thinking about Cisco 8 port switches too, but then went to D-Link 24 ports, I have 2 of them, one 10/100/1000 second 10/100. They look pretty well with the rest of the system as they are black, not as industrial as Cisco 24 ports, they are placed on the TV rack, so the front side has to be led lights only. I use 6A ethernet cables between switches and 272 and the wall, 5e between switches and the rest.

As I understand, taking into consideration the cost, it is worth a trial.

Can you then tell me the best equipment combination then, brands etc. I will try to find it in Moscow.

 You can pm me any time if you prefer.

Thanks.

S

ChrisSU posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

The switch Simon recommends, and which I use, is not big physically - it's the 8 port version, which has no fan and is totally silent. 

I guess it's all relative. If you only need 5 ports or less, and need to hide it behind the furniture, a little Netgear consumer switch is a great deal easier at maybe a quarter of the size.

It lives on the floor under the sideboard, so as long as it's less than five feet long there is no problem. I only use four ports (the one from the router and the ones for Qnap, 272 and Qb) but the results are so much better than with the old Netgear that the slight disruption was well worthwhile. 

The switch i use is the D-link 1024A. Noisy? 

What about this converter D-link DMC-F30SC/A1A?

Tesilk posted:

What about this converter D-link DMC-F30SC/A1A?

 

 

you can put optical bridge between switch and streamer: switch then short ethernet cable then tplink then 2 optical cables then tplink with hdplex ps then good ethernet cable then streamer.    There is also more expensive and simplier: etalon isolator.

For nas, good linear ps.     but maybe you knew all this before...

Ok guys, finally done.

Well, everything is better, difficult to describe, but Diana Krall DSD sounds even better, ATCs and 272 shine  -  more air, more details and precision, very, very good addition indeed, highly recommended! Thanks everyone for help!

S

BTW, the PSU issue resolved by connecting them to POWERGRIP (www.powergrip.com), to digital outputs. Another level up with it. 

Will add hdplex ps soon I hope - impossible to find it here

Pretty happy whit hte results, 

Keler Pierre posted:

Tesilk posted:

What about this converter D-link DMC-F30SC/A1A?

 

 

you can put optical bridge between switch and streamer: switch then short ethernet cable then tplink then 2 optical cables then tplink with hdplex ps then good ethernet cable then streamer.    There is also more expensive and simplier: etalon isolator.

For nas, good linear ps.     but maybe you knew all this before...

Pierre, what if I want to do a second optical bridge inside of the first one? What should be the setup in that case? 

Thanks Serge 

Tesilk posted:

Pretty happy whit hte results, 

Keler Pierre posted:

Tesilk posted:

What about this converter D-link DMC-F30SC/A1A?

 

 

you can put optical bridge between switch and streamer: switch then short ethernet cable then tplink then 2 optical cables then tplink with hdplex ps then good ethernet cable then streamer.    There is also more expensive and simplier: etalon isolator.

For nas, good linear ps.     but maybe you knew all this before...

Pierre, what if I want to do a second optical bridge inside of the first one? What should be the setup in that case? 

Thanks Serge 

i have never heard of second optical bridge into the first one. I think a unique one is enough. But i heard that optical network is better than optical bridge.  You can go to google and tap: optical network devialet chat. You will find all your responses i think.  But you can also buy an ethernet isolator like etalon isolator, probably the best thing, but too much if you have audioquest diamond lan cord and naim nds. I have the last, but if not i would buy ethernet isolator ( about 350 pounds).

Tesilk posted:

Will add hdplex ps soon I hope - impossible to find it here

all linear ps will be good for the tp link switch: from hifi power to teddy pardo ps or hd plex to uptone audio js2( the most expensive).  you have a lot of informations on : linear ps for switch and router. in naim forums.  I use now uptone js2 on my unitserve and tp link switch ( 2 outputs on the js2).  The effect is dramatic!    After optical bridge or ethernet isolator, the second important thing is linear ps on nas( or unitserve...).  Also a good lan cord for the streamer.( meicord/ chord c stream/ audioquest vodka and diamond...).

Tesilk posted:

Pretty happy whit hte results, 

Keler Pierre posted:

Tesilk posted:

What about this converter D-link DMC-F30SC/A1A?

 

 

you can put optical bridge between switch and streamer: switch then short ethernet cable then tplink then 2 optical cables then tplink with hdplex ps then good ethernet cable then streamer.    There is also more expensive and simplier: etalon isolator.

For nas, good linear ps.     but maybe you knew all this before...

Pierre, what if I want to do a second optical bridge inside of the first one? What should be the setup in that case? 

Thanks Serge 

Sounds like a bridge too far to me! How can you have an optical bridge inside an optical bridge?

i don't understand too this second optical bridge...

Can someone give a list of required components to do this? Sounds like a fun experiment.

Being a network engineer I am bemused by this thread... what on earth are you trying to do? I can't see why you are wanting to add additional bridges into a network segment and effectively add latency. With TCP communication latency is usually a bad thing (albeit the latency increase will be small). We also know the current Naim streaming architecture is not happiest when you add latency.  If you are worried about common mode noise on the Ethernet lead, why don't you use a quality switch with a ground/earthed powersupply, or slap a few ferrite chokes around the Ethernet lead. If you really want to use fibre then use fibre SFPs, but of course Naim don't support at present, so the only real advantage is if you need more than 100 metres between streamer and switch.