Super Lumina vs HiLine

There might be more joy to be found if you replace all cables with super lumina?

atleast your dealer will be ecstatic.

I found the same loss of involvement. I also have NBLs but when I tried the SL in place of the Hiline my system was CDX2/555ps/282/SC/250-2, all powerlined. The SL I borrowed was Jason's demo one so well run in. I've no prospect of trying the speaker cables in a full set so left it at that.

Thanks Yeti42. Yip it seems strange to me that the involvement drops with something that must have been designed and deployed with an increase of involvement in mind. I have found that upgrading any Naim gear has always increased the musicality factor which is why I am surprised by what we both have experienced.

Cheers

Norman

The difficult thing is that musical involvement is both very subjective and personal. What draws one completely into the music might not push any buttons for somebody else. 

I'm currently auditioning cables too and I'm down to the last two candidates. One is more 'advanced' in design and materials and 3 x more expensive. The other one is more basic in its construction and materials. 

I can easily hear the better performance of the expensive cable. Better imaging, higher resolution, tighter & more controlled bass and a smoother, more refined treble. All are better than from the cheaper cable. But the cheaper cable just has that one or two qualities that push my buttons for musical involvement; bass slam & drive and a sense of enthusiasm/gusto and liveliness in the music that keeps me going back to it.

There is no question that the expensive cable ticks more +boxes and thus objectively is the better performing cable. But not all plusses & minusses carry the same weight.

That said, I believe the SL interconnect costs about 2,5 times more than a Hi-Line. Based on it's hefty price-tag it should blow you away imo... 

Hi Norman,

I have the same amps as yourself (DR'd as yours, or not in the case of the 500). I bought the SL speaker cable first which was run in when I changed out my HiLine for SL. I'm not sure if this ameks a difference but there is a school of thought here that the more SL in the system, the more the gains.

For my part, I found the SL/IC more enjoyable from the off, this with a new cable. More of everything really. It did take quite a while to run in but day 1 convinced me. If you don't like it, at least you save some money and can forget that particular tweak.

Dave

Hi Dave,

appreciate the insight.

It's a funny old business. It seems to have the odd moments of real emotional connection and then settles back into what I would describe as a sophisticated sound which seems to miss the emotional edge of all the genre's of music I have played. It is strange because as I mentioned, in the original part of the post, the HiLine does sound a bit thin and reedy in comparison but man it grabs your attention by the gut and heart strings. Maybe the SL/Ic may move that way but hard to really know. The Naim  upgrades I have done in the past have always got the nod because it held another level of musical captivation.

With this tweakit  is not getting past what the HiLine delivers in musical captivation despite all the bigger soundstage and sophistication (all according to my ears and brain of course).

Maybe a couple more of the days I have with it may produce the breakthrough. We shall see. Thanks again for taking the time to provide the response with the outcome of a similar scenario.   :-)

Cheers

Norman

I was using a Hi Line but when I had S/L speaker cables on demo last year changing the High Line to a S/L was a major improvement when used in conjunction with the S/L speaker cables.

Did it for me but it was the sort of improvement I noticed most when I took it out of the system. I think this is because it it produces a balanced change without one 'in your face' characteristic. When I swapped back to a Hi Line things felt pretty flat as I recall.

I'd rate it as a 7/10 change, not a complete revolution.

Bruce

I did give the SL interconnect a good try, but in my case it was in place of my Chord Super Sarum phono to DIN between Chord DAC & 552DR. My experience was similar to that of others here - it gave extra detail but at the expense of musical enjoyment. I guess you could say it effectively removed most of the PRaT. I was pretty disappointed actually.

I demoed a SL IC between NDS and 252 with a 250.2 with NACA5 and noticed an immedate improvement with no loss of PRaT over the Hiline. Later upgrades to a 250DR and SL speaker cables simply added even more. So there could be something in the argument that SL and DR technology are complementary and provide some degree of synergy. Who really knows.

Hello All who responded.

Much appreciate your feedback. It appears that the SL/IC is not universally embraced as a great musical upgrade based on this small sample of the population. It is interesting given some rave reviews that I picked up around the forum and internet. Fair to say that "musicality" is very much in the ear of the beholder and is probably something very hard to get right for everyone. But it does seem odd to me that something developed in amongst the "no budget constraint" project for the development of the Statement is not screaming musicality.

I may have the SL/IC for a couple more days. If anything suddenly kicks in (given it is running in) I will provide an update. But at the moment the HiLine is the one that is doing it for me. I remain surprised by this.

Will let you know what unfolds.   :-)

I've been down the SL demo vs HiLine path and had initial very poor results - then things turned about and I got a very large performance upgrade and was convinced.

So what happened?

Initially it sounded 'hollowed-out' in upper-mid where a lot of emotion from female vocals is for me and although it sounded detailed and impressive, it just failed to connect the music to me. I kept it on demo for a few more days for about a week, as the cable was new and I wanted to see it it would run-in, or something changed.

Well I found things did change after I experimented and found a few things that the SL interconnect seemed to like. It does not like touching the floor or the metal part of the Fraim I used from my 555 to the (at that time) 552 Pre. It did like being 'centred' in the DIN socket, which someone at Naim had shown me - essentially you pull the plug out about a mm and turn left and right to ensure it is not hard against either side of the socket. When this was done it changed character and a hard 'edge' disappeared and it really bloomed - it was all good and positive after that.

I'd tried a chord STA offering and found it did nothing for me over the HiLine. The SL cables seem to work well together in terms of sense of ease of access to the music - a very lucid rendition without sounding forced is what I heard and liked.

A friend with nearly identical system to yours and NBLs initially did not like it, then it clicked for him and he is now a full SL-loom, so I think it can work for your system.

But unless it does this in your demo it is not for you.

DB.

Hi DB,

I will try your handy tips tonight when I get home from work. Also provided a bit of hope in the mix. Brilliant. Will advise what happens.

Much appreciated.

Norman

Norman Clature posted:

Fair to say that "musicality" is very much in the ear of the beholder and is probably something very hard to get right for everyone.

But it does seem odd to me that something developed in amongst the "no budget constraint" project for the development of the Statement is not screaming musicality.

I think your first quoted sentence answers the second. It's different for everyone and thus there is not one sound that fits all equally.

Ideally components should not have a 'sound' at all but in reality they all do. Next to the ears listening to it, every hifi system is a huge pile of variables as well. The individual components, positioning, rack/stand, cables, room acoustics, mains etc. 

To avoid as much subjectivity as possible I'm a huge fan of blind auditioning if possible.  This largely removes 'the brain & eyes' from the equation. Meaning, the brain that knows what's playing, how much it costs, that knows the marketing/status/image, how much you would like to buy the new toy, what the forum and reviews say about it, how much more impressive/advanced it looks, etc. etc. For me this has been a very confronting and sobering experience more often than I expected.

Norman Clature posted:

Hello All who responded.

Much appreciate your feedback. It appears that the SL/IC is not universally embraced as a great musical upgrade based on this small sample of the population. It is interesting given some rave reviews that I picked up around the forum and internet. Fair to say that "musicality" is very much in the ear of the beholder and is probably something very hard to get right for everyone. But it does seem odd to me that something developed in amongst the "no budget constraint" project for the development of the Statement is not screaming musicality.

I may have the SL/IC for a couple more days. If anything suddenly kicks in (given it is running in) I will provide an update. But at the moment the HiLine is the one that is doing it for me. I remain surprised by this.

Will let you know what unfolds.   :-)

Like DB already pointed out the SL are more affected by the way they are lying or hanging around and need a bit of running in. While I did immediately hear the huge bump in performance. But also don't get into the must be good trap....., that's much more expensive, doesn't mean it must be right for you. Just demo and stay on course for whatever works for you, but also wait a bit...

I replaced my Hi-Line with a Chord Sarum Tuned Aray cable.  Everything was better until I heard the Super Lumina.  The difference was night and day.  A remarkable cable.  

Another big vote for SL here. I auditioned both SL and Chord SSA against my existing HiLine. both were a very significant leap up from the HL for me. I found the SL to give me more involvement, but others like TonyM above found the opposite.

To your question regarding DR vs non-DR, at the time of my audition my system was 52/500, both non-DR. 

If your cable is new it may just need more time?

good to know that SL interconnects are more involving than both HL and also Chord SSA.

Darke Bear posted:

I've been down the SL demo vs HiLine path and had initial very poor results - then things turned about and I got a very large performance upgrade and was convinced.

So what happened?

Initially it sounded 'hollowed-out' in upper-mid where a lot of emotion from female vocals is for me and although it sounded detailed and impressive, it just failed to connect the music to me. I kept it on demo for a few more days for about a week, as the cable was new and I wanted to see it it would run-in, or something changed.

Well I found things did change after I experimented and found a few things that the SL interconnect seemed to like. It does not like touching the floor or the metal part of the Fraim I used from my 555 to the (at that time) 552 Pre. It did like being 'centred' in the DIN socket, which someone at Naim had shown me - essentially you pull the plug out about a mm and turn left and right to ensure it is not hard against either side of the socket. When this was done it changed character and a hard 'edge' disappeared and it really bloomed - it was all good and positive after that.

I'd tried a chord STA offering and found it did nothing for me over the HiLine. The SL cables seem to work well together in terms of sense of ease of access to the music - a very lucid rendition without sounding forced is what I heard and liked.

A friend with nearly identical system to yours and NBLs initially did not like it, then it clicked for him and he is now a full SL-loom, so I think it can work for your system.

But unless it does this in your demo it is not for you.

DB.

Without wishing to get into a 'which is better etc.' debate, I find it very strange that any company could produce a high cost component that is dependant upon such an imprecise procedure as 'centreing' in the DIN socket for its performance. Not denying that it might work, just wondering why on earth it should be necessary!

To be a bit clearer - this effect is there, but more important at the beginning of the run-in process. After several months of normal use the cable opens-up and gives a fuller-throated sound that offers-up a lot more perfomance, such that if you don't have the set-up just right it matters less.

At the beginning when the cable is new it can sound a bit closed-in and bright and the set-up seems accentuated more.

As mentioned, I never credited run-in of cables with a big impact until I encountered the SL ones. In particular when I borrowed a well run-in DIN-XLR lead from my Dealer it sounded fabulous - when my set arrived they were bright and 'reedy' sounding for weeks until they run-in a bit and really bloomed after 6-9 months opening-up to a big free-ranging sound.

Unless I experienced it I would be suspicious of the truth of it. Also having a Physics and Electronics background myself tends to give you a bit more hubris of assumed knowledge about the impossibility of such things being possible - until the empirical evidence is at my ears.

DB.

analogmusic posted:

good to know that SL interconnects are more involving than both HL and also Chord SSA.

Why would you take notice of anything other people say? The only way to find out is to try for yourself.

not easy when not based in UK.

If the SL interconects does not like to touch the floor why are they so long?! Are the din-xlr's the same length as din-din?

Joppe posted:

If the SL interconects does not like to touch the floor why are they so long?! Are the din-xlr's the same length as din-din?

The length of the cable also plays a role in the sound, I don't know the physics of that. But I have seen the same with my power cables. 

Agree with Darke Bear on Superlumina DIN-XLR experience - I borrowed a set for my 552/500 from a dealer and a big step up(must have been "run-in") from the Lavenders.  So much so I ordered a new set and they sounded awful (thin, screechy, narrow soundstage) even by comparison with the Lavenders.  I was almost on the point of handing them back if not for the experience with the demo pair so I persevered.  From about 8-9m onwards, and now 13-months, down the line they have become "invisible" or rather lost the negative attributes mentioned earlier.  The metamorphosis perhaps somewhat masked by getting my 500 serviced and DR'd which upon return put my system into a different league!  By inference, the SL DIN-XLR had relaxed fully by now.  As mentioned in another thread, I did not like the SL speaker cables relative to Tellurium Ultra Blacks and therefore voted with my wallet.