QNAP or Synology ?

Manu posted:

Synology has a better setup software and Minim ( Java) is easier to install

This is the precisely the reason that I go for QNAP, java-based app is a big, bloated issue.

Moving from the synology 212 to the qnap TS 453A was like a black box upgrade - actually - a source upgrade - bigger than from ndx to nds. :-)

banzai posted:

Manu posted:

Synology has a better setup software and Minim ( Java) is easier to install

This is the precisely the reason that I go for QNAP, java-based app is a big, bloated issue.

NB:  Its only Minimserver that needs Java,  not Synology

I use a Qnap TS251 with WD reds and am very happy with it. It is quiet enough to be in the living room. One feature that hasn't been mentioned is that it can function as a media PC and has a wide range of free apps as well as an HDMI output. I hook mine up to my TV and get iPlayer Youtube Kodi etc. as well as anything you can Google. I use a wireless mouse and keyboard to control it. Maybe Synology has this but I find it very useful. I did swap out the ram on mine for 8 gig - not sure I needed to but cost less than £30 and took 20 minutes.

ken c posted:

i am looking at various QNAP NASs on their website.  whats the experience with dual vs quadcode, and 4GB vs 2GB memory?

I am looking at TS-251 vs TS-251+ -- anyone using these with Naim streaming setups?

I hope i'm not high jacking this thread Roger... :-(

enjoy

ken

I'm running a QNAP TS 251 + with 2GB RAM and a single 8GB WD Red in bay No1.

Back-up (on a regular basis) is to an 8GB WD External 'My Book' Drive. I don't use RAID as I work on the basis if the hard drive fails I'll back up from the external drive.

There are a few threads on the forum and interesting comments on the amount of RAM you need. My set-up is purely music, running 12,868 albums with Asset using the 'Asset for QNAP' version. Over the last year it has all run smoothly with no memory issues  - you can buy and install more RAM at a later date if needed.

I rip in FLAC and transpose on the fly to WAV and transferring my music library over to the QNAP took the best part of a day.

I did look at Synology and Minim which seemed like a good alternative but went after reading all the great comments and advice for the above with no regrets.

Oh yes and this youtube video is just amazing and had me up and running in no time at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vrFS0Md0Tk

FWIW I have just ordered a QNAP TS-253A-8G into which I will be putting 2 x 2TB WD Red drives.

I've used a Synology NAS for 5+ years very happily but it was getting a bit old and I had an issue caused by one of the most recent Synology DSM updates, which interfered with playback for a short time. I changed to QNAP so I can use Asset, but newer Synology models will - I am sure - work just as well.

(I'm sure when it arrives I'll be using the youtube video above - thanks!)

Mike-B posted:

banzai posted:

Manu posted:

Synology has a better setup software and Minim ( Java) is easier to install

This is the precisely the reason that I go for QNAP, java-based app is a big, bloated issue.

NB:  Its only Minimserver that needs Java,  not Synology

If all you're going to do with a NAS is store and serve music, why is Java a problem? When I set up my Synology, it took a bit of time (as a complete novice) to fathom out how to configure it, but that was a one-off process, and now it just works. As far as I can tell, I don't need to know or care what Java is.

ChrisSU posted:

Mike-B posted:

banzai posted:

Manu posted:

Synology has a better setup software and Minim ( Java) is easier to install

This is the precisely the reason that I go for QNAP, java-based app is a big, bloated issue.

NB:  Its only Minimserver that needs Java,  not Synology

If all you're going to do with a NAS is store and serve music, why is Java a problem? When I set up my Synology, it took a bit of time (as a complete novice) to fathom out how to configure it, but that was a one-off process, and now it just works. As far as I can tell, I don't need to know or care what Java is.

Java is a security problem, everyone, Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc. now is moving away from Java.

banzai posted:

Java is a security problem, everyone, Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc. now is moving away from Java.

The move away may be so,  but its my understanding that Java has fixed its security issues .........  in 2015 Cisco & others said it was no longer a concern.     So rumour & history aside,   what's is the 2017 latest & where do  I go to read it myself ??

apple has been banning java for years, none of their products (macbook, iphone, ipad, macos, ios) uses java. all the modern web browsers  stop supportinng java applet, i.e. java only exists in legacy systems and no one is willing to invest in it.

A few mentions have been made of Asset in this thread, so for those that might not be aware, it does not take much work to get it running on a Synology NAS. For example, the Intel Debian 64 version of Asset runs fine on a 416play, and the Pi version runs on a 214+ (have not tested other models). There is a long thread on this over on the dboweramp forum but the instructions are not quite pulled together. But once SSH access is enabled in DSM, log in via a terminal client like PuTTY and a few lines of typing as per the following will have Asset running if a compatible Asset.gz file has been downloaded to the Public share.

# log in via PuTTY

sudo -i
Password:**********   #  (enter here Synology's admin password)
cd /usr/bin
mkdir asset
chmod 777 asset
cd asset
cp /volume1/Public/Asset*.gz .          # note the space in .gz .
tar -zxvf *.gz
rm *.gz

# To autostart Asset, make an 'asset.conf' script file

cd /etc/init
cat > asset.conf
start on started synonetd
stop on runlevel [06]
exec /usr/bin/asset/bin/AssetUPnP

'CTRL+d' to save

Close PuTTy, re-boot NAS

Configure Asset with a web browser and the URL http://diskstation:45537

Configuration files stored in /.dBpoweramp

Note, a major DSM update such as 6>6.1 deletes the Asset files in /usr/bin but not the personal configuration, so it only takes a moment to reinstall, and configuration is not lost.

banzai posted:

apple has been banning java for years, none of their products (macbook, iphone, ipad, macos, ios) uses java. all the modern web browsers  stop supportinng java applet, i.e. java only exists in legacy systems and no one is willing to invest in it.

I know all about Apple & Oracle/Java,  its always been their corp policy,  but they are not banning Java & have numbers of Java software downloads available on their www.  But thats thats not what I asked,  where can I read about MS, Linux & Google issues.  ???     

mark, nothing that can be said to convince you that java is bad, is bloated, is a security risk. it is your choice, there are some software developers keep supporting java, and there are still some users who are willing to take risks and the hassle of setting it up.

I'm not asking you to convince me,  I'm simply asking where I can go read about the security risks you have obviously read about that are relevant in 2017.     And FYI I do not have Java on my MS products,  the only place I have it is preloaded (but not running) on my Synology  .............  the name is Mike BTW,  but I've been called worse 

ok, mike, sorry about the typo. i am avoiding using java-based product such as the mimim server, so i do not know what java patches it has, and i do not care if there is any java securities there or not, but i am sure that there are plenty of them.

Btw, I do not think MS, Google are using Java moving forward. MS has still to support Java for legacy systems.

I currently own a Synology DS213+ that works fine for some years now. The only issue I have (frequently with new firmware versions) that the deep sleep mode (with a blue pulsing LED) cannot be reached. After the latest DSM6 update I never saw it sleeping that way anymore.  In this mode not only the hard discs went to sleep, but the whole system is sleeping, consuming less than 3 watts IIRC. It is not powered off. The network device still listens to incoming packages. So you do not need to send a "wake on LAN" package to start up the device. A normal http-Connect, etc., awakes it again in only a few seconds.

If I check the specs of recent synology NASes like DS416play or DS416 I cannot find information about this deep sleep. The specs just say X watt while using it and Y watt with sleeping discs, where Y is far more than 3 watts, e.g. more than 10 watt.

Do other NASes (Synology and QNAP) offer such a deep sleep, too? 

Hi Gert,  what you have a problem with is hibernation,  not deep sleep which is another mode & not available on your 213.    I have not had a problem with hibernation through all the software updates - & some beta testing - but I first needed to understand what prevents & wakes hibernation & now I know the tricks it works just fine.  My 214 will wake at a preselected time 06:00 each day to look around & do things,  it can also wake for no obvious reason,  maybe my laptop maybe www,  but normally this amounts to 3 to 5 times per 24 hours at most when I don't need it for music.   I can give you a list of things to look out for but its a bit involved & its not our thread to take up so much room.  But believe me it hibernates OK 

Hi Mike,

Ok, hibernation is the right word, yes. I was not aware that there is another mode with the name deep sleep.

I very often had problems with hibernation after doing software updates. Sometimes it did not hibernate anymore for some days. After 1 or 2 weeks (maybe with rebooting the device?) it suddenly did work again. But with DSM6 it does not work anymore for several weeks now. Hmm, maybe it is an issue with BubbleUPnPServer or minimserver that are installed. They had an upgrade, too. Some weeks ago hibernation did work fine, even with this two packages.

I know that there are some packages that prevent the system hibernation. But I do not have such packages installed. (The list of installed packages did not change for months.)

To stay ontopic, i can ask my question with the right word now : Do all synology DS versions offer hibernation? And do qnap NASes offer hibernation, too?

Hi Gert,  yes all Synology have hibernate & I'm 99% sure the same for QNAP.   However its the same for both (all NAS brands) in that some NAS installed programs & settings & some outside www links can cause them to stay awake.

Re Synology programs:  I only use the NAS for playing music & only have the following running:   File Station & Search (both cannot be uninstalled or stopped)  Media Server & Hyper BackUp.

If you want to give me your e-mail & can post my hibernation settings document,   it may not suit your way of using NAS but it lists programs & settings that can interfere with Synology hibernation & might give you some clues to make your own changes.

Only indirectly related to this hibernation issue, but I've been mildly annoyed that my DS115 never shut up, even if it was unused for some time (I only use it for backup most of the time.) It turns out that the constant whirring noise was the fan, not the hard drive spinning. I've just discovered that it will shut up if I go to Control Panel > Hardware & Power > General > Fan Speed Mode, and select Low Power Mode. This seems to be the only mode to include the setting "Fan will stop when the system is cool." The NAS sits in a corner of our kitchen which never gets very warm, so I'm now hoping that it will stay quiet most of the time, rather than being annoyingly audible: I used to turn it off a lot because the sound was quite intrusive.  

Mike-B posted:

If you want to give me your e-mail

Is there a way to send private messages here? I do not want to publish my email to all crawlers, etc.

I've posted my e-mail on my profile,  contact me from that,  I will then remove it.