How many still use cd-player?

It is nice to read about so much CD users.

I am not only a regular (2nd hand) cd buyer but I have and use several players: Naim CD5x (with FC2x), Rega Saturn and Teac PD 501 HR. This selection allows me to make several set-up configurations and I love the sound diferences of each one, and since I have a large collection - mainly jazz and 60's and 70's rock -  I can take part of the diferences between recordings and pressings, specially those with HDCD. (Note: don't care much for audiophile poor-music-great- sound records or super expensive limited edition remasters)

The medium is perfect and durable, making 2nd hand purchases less risky than Lp's. As for the sound it got better and better, especially from the late 90's with the all the remasters series correcting some errors of the early cd's. The booklets got bigger on information and in print quality. Take the exemples of the: Roxy Music HDCDs, Rolling Stones DSD remasters, Johnny Cash American Recordings. When done carefully the CD can offer great sound, like the recent and excellent Ginger Baker - Why on Mutéma Records

My love for the CD is also from comparion with Vinyl ( Systemdek IIX 900 AP / Origin Live RB250 Incognito / Ortofon Kontrapunt A / Primare R20 phono stage) and Streaming ( Auralic Aries Femto / USB regen clock / Audioquest Carbon USB cable / Teac UD 501 dac / NAS full of flac files and some DSD files) since I also use both regularly. The first, can offer great sound quality but is not trouble free which make me think more about the machine (an audiophile desease)  than about the music. The second, can be fun when everything works (the router sometimes have a will of its own).

In short, all in all the CD is my favorite

Still very happy with my CD555.

What irks me is that the great leap forward went seriously awry. The wonderful technological innovation of the CD player should have (logically?) evolved into something akin to Mr Spock dropping a plastic cube into a plastic slot on the bridge of The USS Enterprise; with very high resolution music issuing therefrom.

Instead; we got a domestic computer/internet-connection-dependent cranky sprawling mess. And here's the really silly bit - it has to be fed with old-tech CD's for optimum performance.

'Tidal' I hear you cry. Yeah; it makes me cry too, from what I've heard of it.

John.

Thank you all, very happy for the response I have received on this thread!

Interesting reading and nice to read that so many still using CD player!

J.N. posted:

Instead; we got a domestic computer/internet-connection-dependent cranky sprawling mess. And here's the really silly bit - it has to be fed with old-tech CD's for optimum performance.

Local streaming from NAS is not that bad.

I admit - it takes some effort to make it sound the same as a CD player but it's doable. I tweaked my network using CDX2 and NDX in digital transport modes into the nDAC until streamed content sounded the same as from a CD player.

Yup, i'm a die hard CD player user.  My CD5si with a Power-LineLite and HiLine is sounding mighty fine to these ears !

J.N. posted:

Still very happy with my CD555.

What irks me is that the great leap forward went seriously awry. The wonderful technological innovation of the CD player should have (logically?) evolved into something akin to Mr Spock dropping a plastic cube into a plastic slot on the bridge of The USS Enterprise; with very high resolution music issuing therefrom.

Instead; we got a domestic computer/internet-connection-dependent cranky sprawling mess. And here's the really silly bit - it has to be fed with old-tech CD's for optimum performance.

'Tidal' I hear you cry. Yeah; it makes me cry too, from what I've heard of it.

 

John.

Streaming from your own collection in a store that incorporates the renderer removes all the internet and network related cranky mess, and can at least equal CD for sound quality and potentially better it as there's no optical reader to go out of alignment and no error correction needed for disk defects, and then there is the availability of higher resolution files...

I only ever touch CD to rip new ones.

My dealer uses to say that a good CD player costs three times as much as an equally good streamer.

Which is great for people who can use their computer/network know-how instead of money (which may be scarce) to achieve excellent results.

And then there's hi-res ...

The trouble is, there's hi-res, and then there's hi-res. 

I really can't be bothered. Playing music stops being a pleasure for me the moment I use a streaming service or storage device. I end up flicking from track to track and surfing the internet. 

jfritzen posted:

My dealer uses to say that a good CD player costs three times as much as an equally good streamer.

But what really is a 'streamer'? Many also require a dedicated DAC. You can stream music files into many of the recent, high quality CDPs, often at 24/192 resolution via USB. You may loose out on Spotify, FM and Bluetooth capabilities, but then again, a streamer can't spin a silver disc.

Tony Lockhart posted:

The trouble is, there's hi-res, and then there's hi-res. 

 

I really can't be bothered. Playing music stops being a pleasure for me the moment I use a streaming service or storage device. I end up flicking from track to track and surfing the internet. 

Maybe because my experience of streaming is only in playing locally stored files I don't have that experience - I have no interest whatsoever in online streaming services, so have no experience of them, but the potential for breakup of the music or other affects on quality arising from the vagaries of internet connections does not surprise me.

I should have said "network streamer". For me the term "streamer" means a (UPnP based) network streamer, Ethernet in, RCA/DIN out.

Replay from a computer via a DAC (housed in a CDP or elsewhere) is "computer audio" in my personal taxonomy.

joerand posted:

jfritzen posted:

My dealer uses to say that a good CD player costs three times as much as an equally good streamer.

But what really is a 'streamer'? Many also require a dedicated DAC. You can stream music files into many of the recent, high quality CDPs, often at 24/192 resolution via USB. You may loose out on Spotify, FM and Bluetooth capabilities, but then again, a streamer can't spin a silver disc.

A streamer is something that streams...

But the term 'stream' (and thus 'streamer' and 'streaming') is confused by it having evolved to include playing files stored somewhere locally other than direct from a removable disk, and files stored remotely across the internet.

A streamer seems to mean an all-in-one combination of renderer and DAC that will select a file from a store often using a UPnP server(!) on the store and outputting analogue audio, though the two functions can be split, such as when using an NDX as a renderer into an external DAC, or a renderer in the store such as the Core or a computer with something like Audirvana - in the same way a CD player can be used just as a CD transport feeding an external DAC.

jfritzen posted:

I should have said "network streamer". For me the term "streamer" means a (UPnP based) network streamer, Ethernet in, RCA/DIN out.

Replay from a computer via a DAC (housed in a CDP or elsewhere) is "computer audio" in my personal taxonomy.

 

Not sure where something like Core, Innuos Zenith or Melco fit with that when operating as store-renderers direct into a DAC - do you define those as computer audio? A dedicated computer doing the same thing (e.g. Headless MacMini with Audirvana) is no different.

Core etc would indeed be a specialised form of computer audio according to that personal taxonomy. What makes them different from ordinary computer audio is the control app.

But my original point was, that network streaming and/or computer audio have made excellent audio sources much more affordable if you have the know-how to operate them.

The point I was getting to is that recent CDPs are more than ever streaming the CDs they play. They over sample files at high rates and have the ability to correct for much of the jitter by buffering the information then re-clocking and dispensing to the onboard DAC at higher resolution (forgive my crude layman's description). These CDPs are essentially a real-time ripper, streamer and DAC in one box with no long-term storage. No they don't display album art, but you're holding the CD case in your hands. Whether this is better than a more dedicated 'streaming' approach is in the ear and (maybe more importantly) lifestyle of the listener.

Granted, the upscaling doesn't necessarily mean a prettier sonic picture, but there's been plenty of disappointment posted here regarding the quality of hi-res downloads. I'll take the one box, insert disc, then press play solution. Playlists are for ravers.

Ah, that's interesting -I didn't know they did that. Does blur the distinction somewhat.

But with all music in a single small store, selectable by remote control, I certainly won't be going back to CD.

jfritzen posted:

Core etc would indeed be a specialised form of computer audio according to that personal taxonomy. What makes them different from ordinary computer audio is the control app.

But my original point was, that network streaming and/or computer audio have made excellent audio sources much more affordable if you have the know-how to operate them.

The ones I cited can, I believe, all be operated from a simple app on a tablet or phone.

Some indeed do take a bit of setting up to optimise (and reading the Raspberry Pi and microRendu threads some take a lot more than others), the reward with the best being a saving in cost for excellent sound quality, however others like Melco and Zenith don't require any more knowledge or learning to set up than a typical all-in-one 'streamer' (I hesitate to include the Core at the moment due to its teethibg problems).

CD remains my most used source - no longer disputed as suboptimal from both sound and longevity perspective, I guess my sole arguments are that I'm old fashioned and love mucking with discs. I have the whole PC architecture in place to stream - just find the process too vapid - but use it to author my own CDs from purchased downloads. 

Cheers EJ

Innocent Bystander posted:

Tony Lockhart posted:

The trouble is, there's hi-res, and then there's hi-res. 

 

I really can't be bothered. Playing music stops being a pleasure for me the moment I use a streaming service or storage device. I end up flicking from track to track and surfing the internet. 

Maybe because my experience of streaming is only in playing locally stored files I don't have that experience - I have no interest whatsoever in online streaming services, so have no experience of them, but the potential for breakup of the music or other affects on quality arising from the vagaries of internet connections does not surprise me.

Thanks Joerand and Inocent Bystander, you guys have really helped me tremendously, with an unanswered question, I've been longing. 

WHAT IS STREAMING?

So I am Streaming, just locally. Furthermore, I can easily upgrade, and ease into the world of streaming!

"Not sure where something like Core, Innuos Zenith or Melco fit with that when operating as store-renderers direct into a DAC - do you define those as computer audio? A dedicated computer doing the same thing (e.g. Headless MacMini with Audirvana) is no different."

My one box Streamer, Which makes me a Foot Tapper!  The Cdx2.

MM>Airport Extreme>Express>282......

My headless streamer, that I use to stream locally from itunes and ripped CDs, all controlled from my Android cell phone whilst lying in Bed!

Convenience at its best!

But getting to the Music, what happens when an Artist decides to release on Vinyl, as opposed to CD?  What happens when your favorite tune, isn't available in Hi Res?

The New Paradigm:

All three depending on Music and Mood!

Allante93!

Vinyl and cassettes had to be replaced with a compact digital format when the technology was available for simple convenience. It made  a lot of sense to the music business because they could 'push' a new format; sell lots of music again, and make really good profit from CD sales. They were relatively expensive in the early days.

Innovation is driven by market forces, and there was no incentive for the music making industry to develop a higher resolution solid-state music-carrying format, when they realised that they could simply sell and squirt music down a pipe directly to one's home - with lo-fi mp3 satisfying 99% of the music buying public.

Ergo; there is no mass-market necessity to improve upon the compact disc in terms of resolution or practicality. The Hi-Fi industry has to periodically reinvent itself in terms of boring old two channel audio to keep sales vibrant, so inevitably developed a new way to implement the CD format.

I use iTunes, and it is a thing of visual and functional beauty. Because; it has an army of software techs and millions of dollars of development behind it. Small, independent, specialist Hi-Fi companies cannot play in the same ball-park; though all credit to Naim for their innovation and hard work in a fast-changing digital world.

John.

J.N. posted:

Vinyl and cassettes had to be replaced with a compact digital format when the technology was available for simple convenience. It made  a lot of sense to the music business because they could 'push' a new format; sell lots of music again, and make really good profit from CD sales. They were relatively expensive in the early days.

Innovation is driven by market forces, and there was no incentive for the music making industry to develop a higher resolution solid-state music-carrying format, when they realised that they could simply sell and squirt music down a pipe directly to one's home - with lo-fi mp3 satisfying 99% of the music buying public.

Ergo; there is no mass-market necessity to improve upon the compact disc in terms of resolution or practicality. The Hi-Fi industry has to periodically reinvent itself in terms of boring old two channel audio to keep sales vibrant, so inevitably developed a new way to implement the CD format.

I use iTunes, and it is a thing of visual and functional beauty. Because; it has an army of software techs and millions of dollars of development behind it. Small, independent, specialist Hi-Fi companies cannot play in the same ball-park; though all credit to Naim for their innovation and hard work in a fast-changing digital world.

John.

 

Cassette was such rubbish, but the only mobile medium (ignoring 8 track in cars). CD worked for mobile before mp3 players came along offering more capacity and smaller size/weight, and nowadays the mobile computers most people carry (called phones) do the mobile playing for many or even most people.

But CD wasn't developed for the mobile market, instead it was to be a replacement for vinyl, offering all the wonderful things the marketing at the time told us. Eventually it started to meet most of the claims, apart from indestructability. But streaming from a data source of your own - started by computer buffs for their own listening- arrived and developed to where it now can atbleast match and sometimes beat CD for sound quality, while not filling shelves with CDs (and for the industry, no physical media to press, store, ship, or need retail premises, so infinitely cheaper and so should be to the listener, if it weren't for the industry seeing the chance for greater profit). 

Online streaming then has the potential to supply both the mobile and home markets, the user being able to listen via a phone or through whatever sound system he or she has at home, the same music and same library, subject to bandwidth, and over time even more lucrative for the industry only in effect renting the music to people. Of course, in terms of people with decent music systems at home and who also listen on mobile devices, what many people might forget is that it is quite simple to make your home music collection available to you anywher via the internet, obviating the need for subscription services.

Surround sound, like some other innovations, in practice is a bit of a gimmick, having limited appeal much as did quadrophonics back in the 1970s, though maybe now a higher take-up because a fair proportion of people may have a surround system for movie watching - otherwise poeple listening with earbuds, most headphones, boomboxes, cheap music systems, and even Qube and Muso don't have a chance to use it, while those with expensive hifi systems rarely want to add more in the way of amps and speakers, so I predict it will remain a minority interest for many, many years - but it is indeed good that some music is made available in that format for those who want it (good assuming it was recorded that way, as upposed to a pseudo-surround effect).

...As for iTunes, It is on my iPhone and iPad seriously hate it, and while Audirvana offers people the option of using iTunes as an interface, I happily do not do so!

Last time I had a CD player was like 8 yrs ago, I still buy CDs just to rip them and play them from my music server

Still using my trusty CDS/CDPS; not enough time in my life to rip the collection and CDs can be bought at bargain prices these days.

Moussa posted:

Last time I had a CD player was like 8 yrs ago, I still buy CDs just to rip them and play them from my music server

Ok, help me with this, please!

I bought a LP 12 in 1986, 1.4K USD.

Sold it in 2015, 1.5K,  I rarely bought the same Artist on CD, and LPs. For the most part, it was CD, or Album.  Over that 30 year period the CD won out!  The Convenience and improvements proved to be no match in MY Hi Fi Arena!

Back to the Music, is it possible to get the Music off the CD without purchasing the CD?

No $16 for Miles Davis Kind of Blue.

No 30K for a CD555.

And no loss in SQ!!!!!

I don't know the Streaming jargon, but:

A. Download off the internet

B. Hi Res

C. Stream it from Spotify, Tidil

D. What ever they are called!

Allante93!

I still use my CDX-2.... I think it still produces a better sound than a ripped CD file off my MacBook Pro (running Audrivana) via a DAC-V1....., particularly if it is an HDCD....