Cisco Catalyst WS-C2960-8TC-L 2960

For me it was an instant lift in clarity. It reminded me of going from naca5 to TQB.

G

Ken,

I think delaying a pronouncement is very wise.

For me the issue with these things is that I do not think they are automatically transferable. Preference varying with system, power and tastes.

I will be interested in your findings. How do you power your NG switch?

M

Mr Underhill posted:

....How do you power your NG switch?

M

iFi power supply, i believe that is what its called?

enjoy...

ken

Should be interesting, look forward to your thoughts.

Mr Underhill posted:

Should be interesting, look forward to your thoughts.

Mr Underhill posted:

Ken,

I think delaying a pronouncement is very wise.

For me the issue with these things is that I do not think they are automatically transferable. Preference varying with system, power and tastes.

I will be interested in your findings. How do you power your NG switch?

M

i believe you are spot on Mr Underhill. I spent all afternoon today listening to the new switch. As i said yesterday, it definitely sounds different. But i find it hard to describe what the difference is. I could sense what sounded like extra clarity -- but i felt quite uncomfortable with it as it was sounding as if certain musical strands were somewhat exaggerated, perhaps artificial and no longer in "balance".  you can tell i am struggling to say something meaningful :-(

early this evening, i was beginning to feel rather anxious so i switched switches (!!!) -- the NG went back in -- and to me the balance was restored.

Its hard to make some definitive conclusions here. may be the unit i bought was defective. maybe i needed to use it or longer for it to 'run-in', may be the switch is somehow incompatible with my system (i find this hard to believe).

Or perhaps i am just getting cloth eared in my old age...

I dont regret a thing -- it was worth trying... and the unit was cheap enough -- i have spent a LOT more on ethernet cables that were an equal disaster in my system.

i might try it again some other time -- and leave it for a few day (c. 1 week)  when i am not around -- and assess whether it all settles down -- but in the meantime, i will enjoy my music with good old el-cheapo NetGear switch...

enjoy...

ken

Ken, at least you have tried, you may well prefer the sound from the subtle side effects caused from the Netgear switch... you are not alone in this.. funny old hobby.. you don't say what Ethernet cables you are using, best to use standard 5e or 6 either shielded or UTP with the Catalyst. I can see no reason for any 'run in' other than adjustment by your brain to the sound.

Simon

thanks simon -- i was left with the impression that the Cisco was 'adding' something,whereas with the NetGear - i believe i got a better balance. The final straw came when i played one of Beethoven's Piano Trios -- i felt some parts of the music were somewhat overemphasized with the end result that the piece i was playing loft some familiar subtlety.

yes, you are right, funny old hobby -- i might try again sometime when i feel like messing about -- i know there shouldn't be any 'run-in' but i just want to give it the best chance possible. of course, it could also be that the unit i bought is defective somehow...  i guess you get what you pay for -- and there is always a risk buying 2nd hand anyhow... but i am guessing

Ethernet cables are all 'Roline  UTP Cat 6A' - very cheap -- this is what i settled on -- this is what i settled on after trying, mostly in vain, much more expensive variants.

enjoy....

ken

ken c posted:

thanks simon -- i was left with the impression that the Cisco was 'adding' something,whereas with the NetGear - i believe i got a better balance. The final straw came when i played one of Beethoven's Piano Trios -- i felt some parts of the music were somewhat overemphasized with the end result that the piece i was playing loft some familiar subtlety.

yes, you are right, funny old hobby -- i might try again sometime when i feel like messing about -- i know there shouldn't be any 'run-in' but i just want to give it the best chance possible. of course, it could also be that the unit i bought is defective somehow...  i guess you get what you pay for -- and there is always a risk buying 2nd hand anyhow... but i am guessing

Ethernet cables are all 'Roline  UTP Cat 6A' - very cheap -- this is what i settled on -- this is what i settled on after trying, mostly in vain, much more expensive variants.

enjoy....

ken

Ken,

If you can be bothered try a Chord C mains cable on the Cisco. I found that this shielded cable had a subtle effect in lowering the noise floor and may reduce the slight overemphasis in some parts of the frequency range you are experiencing. It's not expensive at c£50.

thanks for the suggestion John. I am tempted not to mess around with mains cables -- right now my network equipment is fed from a radial into a Wireworld Matrix 2 block via aPowerline (yes, Powerline probably overkill here, but just happened to have it, and i dont believe it does any harm)

enjoy...

ken

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Ken, at least you have tried, you may well prefer the sound from the subtle side effects caused from the Netgear switch... you are not alone in this.. funny old hobby.. you don't say what Ethernet cables you are using, best to use standard 5e or 6 either shielded or UTP with the Catalyst. I can see no reason for any 'run in' other than adjustment by your brain to the sound.

Simon

SIS are there any configuration options accessible from the Cisco Device Manager*to optimise the switch for audio? 

*(Enter the switch IP address in the web browser, and press Enter. The device manager page appears)

Hi Jonn, not really for SQ performance. From a usability point of view you can enable Smartports on the web manager and select Desktop for the streamer connected port. This should change the port config to bring up the port quickly when a device like a streamer is connected to it. (Should disable loop checks which take time before port operates) .. however I think it also adds some security protection not really needed for the home, and you will need 2 minutes of port inactivity before connecting a new device on the port. I don't use these Smartport macros I am afraid so can't be certain.. I manually configure the switch.

I do have some scripting that improves UPnP discovery on my home network... makes it effectively instant in the Naim app for example... but you will need to script IOS via telnet using the Configure Terminal mode with that.. so unless that means anything to you best leave.

Tnanks for the information Simon.

My experience with my cisco is that I don't hear any day and night improvement from nas but tidal sounds better than before very close to nas, I might be wrong but feels like it

surely naim/ and others should recommend a typical tested switch so new comers are at ease with the system

audio1946 posted:

surely naim/ and others should recommend a typical tested switch so new comers are at ease with the system

A while ago Naim suggested the Netgear GS105 as a suitable switch, which is probably why it's so popular with forum members. Of course, it's just a humble consumer grade switch, but in terms of function, it's all you need. I don't think Naim are going to get into the game of recommending fancy managed switches costing hundreds of pounds that might bring subtle improvements, just because used ones happen to be easy to pick up on the cheap.

ken c posted:

i was left with the impression that the Cisco was 'adding' something,whereas with the NetGear - i believe i got a better balance. The final straw came when i played one of Beethoven's Piano Trios -- i felt some parts of the music were somewhat overemphasized with the end result that the piece i was playing loft some familiar subtlety.

 

This sounds familiar. What initially struck me as an increase in "air" and detail was, on more prolonged listening an emphasis of certain frequencies. Eventually dismissed as artificial. But it does sound different, that's for sure.

Harry posted:

ken c posted:

i was left with the impression that the Cisco was 'adding' something,whereas with the NetGear - i believe i got a better balance. The final straw came when i played one of Beethoven's Piano Trios -- i felt some parts of the music were somewhat overemphasized with the end result that the piece i was playing loft some familiar subtlety.

 

This sounds familiar. What initially struck me as an increase in "air" and detail was, on more prolonged listening an emphasis of certain frequencies. Eventually dismissed as artificial. But it does sound different, that's for sure.

interesting Harry. but of course this trait could have caused by other issues -- so i could have spent some time messing about investigating  -- but why bother, my Netgearb GS108 didn't have any such issues so i simply 'switched' (oops!) it back in and music was back in my office...

funny hobby this...

enjoy

ken

Exactly. No harm, no foul. I haven't sold it on because it will certainly end up somewhere on the data network at some point.

Harry posted:

Exactly. No harm, no foul. I haven't sold it on because it will certainly end up somewhere on the data network at some point.

same here Harry -- i'm keeping mine as i think i may want to deploy it for other non-audio applications.

enjoy

ken

ChrisSU posted:

audio1946 posted:

surely naim/ and others should recommend a typical tested switch so new comers are at ease with the system

A while ago Naim suggested the Netgear GS105 as a suitable switch, which is probably why it's so popular with forum members. Of course, it's just a humble consumer grade switch, but in terms of function, it's all you need. I don't think Naim are going to get into the game of recommending fancy managed switches costing hundreds of pounds that might bring subtle improvements, just because used ones happen to be easy to pick up on the cheap.

Indeed - it could be a support / consumer confusion nightmare - so best leave to the tweakers at the moment. The closest I heard from Naim is that they might consider user pluggable SFPs for future network audio equipment which might allow the user to properly select between fibre or twisted pair if they wish. There is also a recognition that current network audio performance might change with future / forthcoming improved  architectures (such as the new Unit series) so any recommendations might be shortlived.

S

I liked what the Cisco did enough to have to get one more.

@Simon - I need 4 switches - for the various connections between NAS, Unitiserv and the various streamers I'm running. Would I need to replace all the switches with the Cisco - or just the ones hooked up to the streamers? 

I have no idea how much these sell for new ($300? $1000?) - but for $30-$50 used, they're a bargain..

Need to buy these before they become popular with audiophiles. ;-)

if you are after the subtle SQ improvement that some hear - just the switch connected to your streamer

S

MangoMonkey posted:

I liked what the Cisco did enough to have to get one more.

@Simon - I need 4 switches - for the various connections between NAS, Unitiserv and the various streamers I'm running. Would I need to replace all the switches with the Cisco - or just the ones hooked up to the streamers? 

I have no idea how much these sell for new ($300? $1000?) - but for $30-$50 used, they're a bargain..

Need to buy these before they become popular with audiophiles. ;-)

good linear ps on switch and nas, good ethernet cables, optical bridge or internet isolator, is the best things you can do to your network.  In all hifi high end forums, like computer auiophile, devialet chat, audiostream, whatsbestforum, audiogon,  the switch improvement is rarely pointed. The only one which seems to add little is paul pang switch and by a minority the aqvox aq-8 .  But ethernet isolation and linear ps are the most important upgrades.

whats "ethernet isolation"? sorry, noddy question perhaps?

enjoy

ken

Very true Pierre. The Uptone LPS-1 on my switch was rather revelatory, but it must be said that it adds galvanic isolation to the equation and therefore avoids current leakages getting through to the ethernet from the switch,

Ken,

here is a recent link that explains the concept and various (and sometimes contradicting) experiences: https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/ethernet-isolators